Marcus Fuller: Minnesota Gophers might sink in Bigger Ten

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Why the pessimism and eagerness to forfeit games a whole two, three, or four years before we ever take the field against Nebraska? Of course, there's a lot I don't understand about my Minnesota neighbors.
 

first off, it is far from definite that it will go "east" vs. "west"...sounded like Delaney's main priority was historical strength balance and that means the split we are talking about won't happen anyway

second, as has been outlined above the addition of another team to a conference hurts our chances. This may be less of a factor because teams in a west division would play different teams in the east.

third, a divisional split into east vs west (were one is traditionally stronger and one is traditionally weaker) helps teams win championships in the weaker division. As stated above, the Twins chances of going to the world series are better in a weaker division (AL central) compared to a historically stronger division (AL east).

So if the west and east are split like this...which is a big if....then it is probably negligible in terms of probability differences...as someone said above...the devil is in the details

that being said rose bowl dreams are far from reality until we significantly strengthen the program
 

go4gopher said:
Why the pessimism and eagerness to forfeit games a whole two, three, or four years before we ever take the field against Nebraska? Of course, there's a lot I don't understand about my Minnesota neighbors.
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you don't understand the pessimism? Have you watched the gophers over the years? We're the chicago cubs of college football, except for a long time we were anything but lovable and from the 80s until last year we played in anything but friendly confines.

All the kool-aid I have ever drank has come up in waves of vomit.
 

We aren't just talking about splitting into two divisions. We are talking about splitting into two divisions AND adding a team that is better than the Gophers.

Way back in ancient history, there was an American League and a National League. Then, in 1969 the American League was split into the American League East, and the American League West (this is before the AL Central for you youngins).

This undoubtedly INCREASED the chances of the Twins going to the World Series because they didn't have to beat the Yankees over the course of an entire season to get there (a la 87 and 91).

However, this isn't the correct analogy for what's happening in the Big Ten. What if, when splitting the American League into East and West baseball had simultaneously ADDED another team just as good as the Yankees and put them in the American League West? Would the Twins chances have gone up in that case? In this scenario they would have to beat Yankees II over an entire season AND beat Yankees I in a seven game championship series. It's difficult to quantify the exact impact, but my guess is it gets MUCH HARDER for the Twins in that scenario.

Now I know Nebraska ain't the Yankees, but they ARE better than the Gophers and gain the most from joining the Big Ten. Hence I gotta believe this makes it quite a bit harder for the Gophers.
 

DarrenTheGreek said:
Big12 1996
Texas wins south with 6-2 record. Nebraska wins the north at 8-0 followed by COlorado at 7-1 and K-State at 6-2. Texas wins the Big12 Championship 37-27

SEC 2001
LSU ties in the west with 5-3 record, UT wins East outright with 7-1 record (ahead of FLorida with 6-2 record). LSU wins SEC Championship 31-20.

MAC 2001
Toledo wins west with 5-2 record. Marshall wins east with 8-0 record followed by Miami with 7-1. TOledo wins MAC Championship 41-36.

Big12 2003
K-State wins north with 6-2 record. OU wins south with 8-0 record followed by Texas at 7-1. K-State wins Big12 Championship 35-7.


SEC 2005
Georgia wins east with 6-2 record. LSU and Auburn tied for the west at 7-1 with Bama close behind at 6-2. Georgia wins SEC Championship over LSU 34-14.

MAC 2008
Buffalo wins east with 5-3 record. Ball State wins west with 8-0 record followed by Central Michigan and Western Michigan with 6-2 record. Buffalo wins MAC Championship 42-24.
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Texas, LSU, and Georgia are perrenial powerhouse every year. I wouldnt call them a decent team at all. especially with a 6-2 record. K-state was not a decent team in '03. I recall them being a good team that year with Sproals and Roberson at RB and QB. I take Buffalo and Toledo out because the MAC is terrible. BIG 10, PAC 10, SEC, and old BIG 12 are way different then the MAC or WAC or Moutain West. I will say your best example is the LSU because they were 5-3 in the conference and beat a 7-1 Florida team
 


SPCPrice21 said:
Texas, LSU, and Georgia are perrenial powerhouse every year. I wouldnt call them a decent team at all. especially with a 6-2 record. K-state was not a decent team in '03. I recall them being a good team that year with Sproals and Roberson at RB and QB. I take Buffalo and Toledo out because the MAC is terrible. BIG 10, PAC 10, SEC, and old BIG 12 are way different then the MAC or WAC or Moutain West. I will say your best example is the LSU because they were 5-3 in the conference and beat a 7-1 Florida team
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All the examples I cited are teams that were 3rd best teams (or lower) winning their conference championship game. Just cause you don't like the results doesn't mean you can dismiss it.
 

tato2001 said:
We aren't just talking about splitting into two divisions. We are talking about splitting into two divisions AND adding a team that is better than the Gophers.

Way back in ancient history, there was an American League and a National League. Then, in 1969 the American League was split into the American League East, and the American League West (this is before the AL Central for you youngins).

This undoubtedly INCREASED the chances of the Twins going to the World Series because they didn't have to beat the Yankees over the course of an entire season to get there (a la 87 and 91).

However, this isn't the correct analogy for what's happening in the Big Ten. What if, when splitting the American League into East and West baseball had simultaneously ADDED another team just as good as the Yankees and put them in the American League West? Would the Twins chances have gone up in that case? In this scenario they would have to beat Yankees II over an entire season AND beat Yankees I in a seven game championship series. It's difficult to quantify the exact impact, but my guess is it gets MUCH HARDER for the Twins in that scenario.

Now I know Nebraska ain't the Yankees, but they ARE better than the Gophers and gain the most from joining the Big Ten. Hence I gotta believe this makes it quite a bit harder for the Gophers.
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If you want to go by history, Minnesota and Nebraska would be the two most accomplished programs in a Big Ten West Division and it's not close. If you believe that LONG-TERM Ohio State and Michigan will be the two best teams in the Big Ten (as they have been), then a potential West Division would be a great thing for Minnesota. We could have a season where we avoid playing either on the road (or either at alll) until the conference championship game which would be on a neutral field. I'd say that's pretty clear win for Minnesota. Nebraska is not the Yankees, not even close, and their academic requirements for recruits will likely have to rise to join the Big Ten.

It all depends on the division alignments. If Minnesota gets stuck in a division with Michigan and Ohio State, it would be awful for their future chances. I still see Minnesota as a program that has horribly underachieved in my lifetime given all its advantages over schools that have been successful. If that doesn't change, Minnesota won't win. Every single team in the Big Ten except for Minnesota and Indiana has had a time at the top of the conference in the last twenty years. That's just inexcusable, inept management of the football program.
 

This just in. Minnesota is in between the 6th and 10th best program in the Big Ten right now. Michigan State, Illinois, Minnesota, and Northwestern fill those rolls. They will not sink out of that group to being a clear bottom team like Indiana because of this expansion. So to say they will "sink" is just plain wrong. The only way to sink is if they became Indiana. They will not.


I am not saying the gophers will rise in the new conference, but it is an impossibility for them to sink. They have no where to go but up.
 




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