Linsay Whalen Questionable Coaching Ability

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bball_craz_26 said:
Quick question to everyone on this thread...


What is your personal coaching record out of curiosity that makes you/anyone experts on what it takes to be a good coach?
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I'm a terrible cook but I know Dominos pizza stinks.

You don't need any experience coaching to know the WBB team is in trouble. They aren't winning and the entire team is choosing to transfer out.

If you think you have to have professional experience in something in order to judge it, I'm not sure how you make it through life.

How do you pick an airlines to fly? Where do you get a haircut? Are you just neutral on every coaching hire or decision forever?
 

GringaGopher said:
The GH naysayers always appear when things are not going well. I wonder how many of them actually are invested in this team being successful ? Are you a season ticket holder, go to any games , buy the BTN plus package to watch the games or just show up to be Captain Obvious that the program is struggling ?
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That's really the time the naysayers should be coming out. Brewster had a bunch of naysayers before he was canned. Pitino had a bunch of naysayers before he got canned. Losing and running a bad program creates "naysayers".
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
That's really the time the naysayers should be coming out. Brewster had a bunch of naysayers before he was canned. Pitino had a bunch of naysayers before he got canned. Losing and running a bad program creates "naysayers".
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That was not my main point. I am genuinely curious how many of these newer posters on the WBB board really care if they win or lose ? Naysayers appear all over GH but it seems on the other boards, like FB n MBB, many of the posters are more invested in the outcome.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I'm a terrible cook but I know Dominos pizza stinks.

You don't need any experience coaching to know the WBB team is in trouble. They aren't winning and the entire team is choosing to transfer out.

If you think you have to have professional experience in something in order to judge it, I'm not sure how you make it through life.

How do you pick an airlines to fly? Where do you get a haircut? Are you just neutral on every coaching hire or decision forever?
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You’re an expert on EVERYTHING, which is why I don’t pay attention to anything you have to say.
 

MOGopher said:
This is delusional. The two players that were definitely not team players - Powell and Scalia. Whalen supported them and their selfish ways and it is one of the many reasons she is not fit to be a coach. Both should have been sat many times. but Whalen catered to their needs so they would not leave.
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Your post is delusional and makes no sense. You and everyone else is so upset that Scalia is leaving yet you wanted Whalen to sit her so she would leave.
 


Rickman55 said:
You’re an expert on EVERYTHING, which is why I don’t pay attention to anything you have to say.
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I'm on an expert on very few things (if any). My entire point is that no one needs to be an expert to realize the WBB is in trouble.
 

GringaGopher said:
That was not my main point. I am genuinely curious how many of these newer posters on the WBB board really care if they win or lose ? Naysayers appear all over GH but it seems on the other boards, like FB n MBB, many of the posters are more invested in the outcome.
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This is probably true. For me, I follow the women's team much less than I do most other sports but I like basketball. The honest truth is that the team got more attention from me (good and bad) with Whalen being the coach. I've followed them much closer over the course of the last 4 seasons.
 

I've followed the team closely all season. This is my 1st post on GH. FIRST of all it's Lindsay. That's an indicator of knowledge about this team. Powell was a srive first PG. Teams took that away and her effectiveness went away. Sissoko went into a funk for three quarters of the season. Winters and Hubbard couldn't shoot 100%. Scalia played hard and shot well but couldn't carry the team. Scoring from out 5s was limited. We weren't very athletic and lacked team speed. The final 6 games were very good. Powell was gone. Defense came together. The team took good care.of the ball. Whalen's fault? Players play, I didn't see the coaching staff shoot or rebound. Many transfers created difficulty with team chemistry. Whalen will return this team to prominence. Naysayers please leave!
 

Mnwhiteshoes said:
I've followed the team closely all season. This is my 1st post on GH. FIRST of all it's Lindsay. That's an indicator of knowledge about this team. Powell was a srive first PG. Teams took that away and her
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Mnwhiteshoes said:
effectiveness went away. Sissoko went into a funk for three quarters of the season. Winters and Hubbard couldn't shoot 100%. Scalia played hard and shot well but couldn't carry the team. Scoring from out 5s was limited. We weren't very athletic and lacked team speed. The final 6 games were very good. Powell was gone. Defense came together. The team took good care.of the ball. Whalen's fault? Players play, I didn't see the coaching staff shoot or rebound. Many transfers created difficulty with team chemistry. Whalen will return this team to prominence. Naysayers please leave!
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You may well have followed the team closely but the players were following it much closer and their conclusion was to play for someone else.
How well players play is in direct proportion to how well they are coached. Happy, confident and put in a position to succeed.
Who recruited and evaluated the personalities and abilities of the players?
 



Minnesota has been mediocre to poor in Women's and Men's basketball for a long time. Even if the University opened the vault, it would be difficult to attract big name head coaches with a proven track record. An alternative would be to attract a successful mid-major coach, but there is no guarantee that they could replicate their success at a Power Conference school. Likewise, Minnesota is not a magnet for 4-5 star recruits. The name "Minnesota" is not a drawing card. Lindsay and Ben do not have the caliber of players necessary to produce contending programs. Somehow, they have to overcome the stigma of Minnesota basketball to get impact players. I think Lindsay and Ben both have excellent basketball knowledge and have ample technical ability, in spite of not having lots of head coaching experience. On the women's side, there seems to be something wrong with the climate and chemistry. It is hard to imagine that Lindsay is demanding more of her players than she demanded of herself. We may never know if the coaching staff is being disrespectful of the players, abusive, bullying, playing favorites, ignoring players, etc. I think Coyle should interview LBK, Mershon, Helgren, and Winters. They are older, more mature players, have been in other programs, and probably have a good perspective on what has been going on. Then, maybe he could interview Scalia and some others. If there is a personal relationship issue, Minnesota has experts and classes in personnel management and interpersonal relationships. I have heard former players say that Herb Brooks knew what 'button to push' on each of his players. Currently, Lindsay and Ben cannot be successful until they have impact players and they are not going to get impact players until they have a successful program. Or, if they get darn lucky and someone like Sherrill Swoopes transfers in.
 

I also follow the team closely, not only this season but for the past 25-years, and it hurts to be negative when you want the local team to succeed like neighboring Iowa or simply South Dakota U, two teams that recruit & roster Minnesota kids, with South Dakota going to the NCAA Tourney 3-straight years, with a Sweet-16 placement this season...I stated I followed Gophers WBB for 25 years, possibly the last couple seasons were at bottom level & painful to watch...I assumed after 4-years Whalen would mold & select her own recruits to some form of respectability, sadly this did not happen, sometimes it takes more than a talented star player or renown icon to create a productive team. I only hope Linsay Whalen can move the program forward, which case after 4-years it is the opposite and I assume Coyle will not give her a free pass for another 4-years of a non-productive team or coach.......
 

2018 class ... all gone (Kayla Mershon, one year of eligibility, but chose not to return)
2019 class ... all gone
2020 class ... all gone
2021 class ... still there (only 3 left, for now)
 

CoachJD said:
2018 class ... all gone (Kayla Mershon, one year of eligibility, but chose not to return)
2019 class ... all gone
2020 class ... all gone
2021 class ... still there (only 3 left, for now)
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I can't speak to the reason why. The reasons could be more numerous than a single assumption. Without first hand knowledge you are just throwing darts at a moving target.
 



I remember Maya Moore making a comment in the Olympics when the bench was making a nice run in one of the games. She said something like when Whalen Speaks you listen. Coyle didn’t just pick some alumni off the street to coach. He picked the GOAT who was known for being like a coach on the court. I did not work for the program when she was there but I did work for the program after her time and every time she was around she brought an absolute zest and fun. It’s character traits that she embodies that make me hold out hope for her being a good coach. Whalen wants to win. She believed she could win a national championship as a player, and she wants to bring this program back to ncaa tournaments. She has a lot to learn. I wish she had more experience on her staff. A Ted Riverso type should be on this staff. The team was bad and everyone stayed. Why did people have this expectations this year was going to be so much better? With that I did see some improvements. Their offense actually had a little movement in it. The mag 7 (my new name for the fresh and returners) seem to have Coach Whalens back on social media. Whalen basically has a blank canvas to work with now. She needs to create a culture with them right from the start. People already think she failed, so this could be a perfect opportunity to prove them wrong. Like Whalen has done for years.
 

First off, I thought the hiring of Lindsay Whalen by AD Coyle was an excellent choice. It was risky but it brought in a Minnesota icon who cares about the U and has always been committed to winning. Having said that it is fair several years into her coaching career to evaluate her performance without blinders. One defense is that she doesn't have the experience and needs time to develop as a coach. While that is true, one would hope to see that development on the court. To date there is little evidence supporting the notion that she is improving as a coach. If anything the program appears to be in worse shape than when she took it over. Another defense is its' the fault of the players, either they aren't as good as originally thought or don't work hard enough to get better. The reply to this is that many of these players were hand picked by coach Whalen so either she does not identify talent very well or is unable to develop the talent on hand. She does have a great recruiting class coming in next year and deserves the opportunity to see what she can do with that class, but if that all turns sour for whatever reason I think a change will be necessary. Her relationship with the players has to be questioned at this point. I know the portal changes the dynamic but even the most ardent Whalen supporter has to acknowledge the outflow of players under Whalen is a bit disconcerting. Fans cannot/will not support a program if they see no chance for improvement. The honeymoon is over and it is time to put a competitive product on the floor. I hope that happens. I apologize for this rant turning a bit negative but I do believe this program can be successful and I am frustrated at its' current direction.
 

When Whalen was hired it was 100% the right choice, she was just on her way out of the league, she obviously has a ton of basketball knowledge/expertise, she is the biggest star in program history and you knew she was going to do it the right way and wouldn't leave if successful. Now, none of those guarantee success and for every Staley there is a Patrick Ewing. Star players are by no means a lock to succeed as a coach, heck sometimes it makes it harder. None of us have been to practice but I assume for a Powell or Scalia I am sure it would be incredibly hard to live up to the standards Whalen has, because she wants the best I am sure. Maybe that makes it tougher for players, who knows.

I am fine giving Whalen another year because like many posted above, we arent getting 4* 5* kids on the regular so having a big name can hopefully help in theory (and also probably helps sell some tickets). But if you are here saying there are no issues and it is a positive that we are losing our best players every year and its better that they are all gone, well then you just arent looking at it logically to me.
 

Belzx009 said:
I wish she had more experience on her staff. A Ted Riverso type should be on this staff.
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Danielle O'Banion was with the program for Whalen's first 3 years.
Belzx009 said:
The mag 7 (my new name for the fresh and returners) seem to have Coach Whalens back on social media.
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I am not on social media... what have the "mag 7" been saying?
 

ecoperson said:
Danielle O'Banion was with the program for Whalen's first 3 years.

I am not on social media... what have the "mag 7" been saying?
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I just noticed a couple shared her HOF stuff. And seemed supportive.
 

Reality - Recruiting Class Rankings are just numbers. This was not going to be a quick fix - changing the culture and the expectations takes time. Sometimes you have to tear the walls down completely to rebuild the building. That's done. Now the expectations have to kick in, whether the players are there or not. Whalen does need to show some coaching growth - starting with team development and coaching to fit the offensive/defensive strengths of her team. Been a bunch of collective parts so far - not a team. Lindsay needs to focus on the team aspect, and coach to those strengths instead of asking her players to fit a perceived mold. They won't all be the same type of player she was. Losing sucks. Her players arent having fun. All it is right now is work. What can be done to change that? That needs to be her focus......
 

akgo4 said:
Reality - Recruiting Class Rankings are just numbers. This was not going to be a quick fix - changing the culture and the expectations takes time. Sometimes you have to tear the walls down completely to rebuild the building. That's done. Now the expectations have to kick in, whether the players are there or not. Whalen does need to show some coaching growth - starting with team development and coaching to fit the offensive/defensive strengths of her team. Been a bunch of collective parts so far - not a team. Lindsay needs to focus on the team aspect, and coach to those strengths instead of asking her players to fit a perceived mold. They won't all be the same type of player she was. Losing sucks. Her players arent having fun. All it is right now is work. What can be done to change that? That needs to be her focus......
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Don't you think she knows losing is no fun.
How would you quantify talent if those are just numbers. The recruiting class has played basketball against good competition. Lindsey is a smart competitive woman. As Sid Hartman would say, if they follow you around on your job, you wouldn't be demeaning others.
 

I read a great quote from Dawn Staley this weekend. She was discussing the development of a cohesive team and how early in her career she was trying to please everyone and sometimes not telling every player the blunt reality of their role. For the past few years @ SC she began to take the same approach will all her players. Now she tells them " here's what you need to do for the team, here's why it's important and here's how we are going to make it work ". Obviously, there's a lot more to coaching than this but this direct , team focused and role designation is clearly bringing her program top recruits and Natty's.
 


This may not go directly to "coaching ability," but every time I watched the Gopher Women's BB team play this last season, I had the same reaction:

the other team has better athletes.

The Gophers had some good basketball players, but, with a few exceptions, the players on the other team were quicker, faster, jumped higher, etc. Sissoko was probably the most 'athletic' player on the Gophers team, and she was inconsistent as a BB player.

my conclusion FWIW - Whalen's recruiting has emphasized basketball skills over athletic ability. That has to change. She needs to go out and find athletes and then make them better basketball players.

because, no matter how hard you try, you can't make people into better athletes.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
This may not go directly to "coaching ability," but every time I watched the Gopher Women's BB team play this last season, I had the same reaction:

the other team has better athletes.

The Gophers had some good basketball players, but, with a few exceptions, the players on the other team were quicker, faster, jumped higher, etc. Sissoko was probably the most 'athletic' player on the Gophers team, and she was inconsistent as a BB player.

my conclusion FWIW - Whalen's recruiting has emphasized basketball skills over athletic ability. That has to change. She needs to go out and find athletes and then make them better basketball players.

because, no matter how hard you try, you can't make people into better athletes.
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I am mixed on this. I have seen many athletes who can jump out of the gym who NEVER learned how to play the game. They couldn't shoot, couldn't dribble, and just couldn't integrate with a team.

I have conversely seen teams of less athletic players be a success. They stretch the floor on offense with their shooting, execute their offensive sets, and play solid team D. There are a host of mid-majors who have made this their calling cards for years.

Lindsay and staff need to establish a long term vision about how they want to play and recruit and play to that. To be successful, they must not deviate from the long-term plan. It doesn't need to be shared with the world but the plan should be obvious to most anyone with even a modicum of basketball knowledge. I have not seen the vision. The players often seem mismatched to the system and do not complement one another.
 


ecoperson said:
I am mixed on this. I have seen many athletes who can jump out of the gym who NEVER learned how to play the game. They couldn't shoot, couldn't dribble, and just couldn't integrate with a team.

I have conversely seen teams of less athletic players be a success. They stretch the floor on offense with their shooting, execute their offensive sets, and play solid team D. There are a host of mid-majors who have made this their calling cards for years.

Lindsay and staff need to establish a long term vision about how they want to play and recruit and play to that. To be successful, they must not deviate from the long-term plan. It doesn't need to be shared with the world but the plan should be obvious to most anyone with even a modicum of basketball knowledge. I have not seen the vision. The players often seem mismatched to the system and do not complement one another.
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South Dakota and South Dakota State are good examples of no so athletic. They don't play in the B1G. Tournament play is one thing. The grind of a B1G season is another. We had 4 teams in the Sweet 16. Basketball IQ, Skill, athletism, Shooting, and court leadership win games. Not many on court leaders. Whalen won because of leadership and determination.
For you naysayers, how many practices, games or workouts have you attended or watched?
Minnesota Woman's Basketball will rise again! Get off Whalen's back.
 

PhiloVance said:
www.ctinsider.com

UConn coach Geno Auriemma has strong words about the transfer portal

There are close to 900 women’s college basketball players in the NCAA’s transfer...
www.ctinsider.com www.ctinsider.com
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Interesting. Geno said what I had been wondering for a while. Nearly 1000 in portal and only 341 teams. About 3 per team on average, but also means only 3 spots per team on average available. With a class of freshman recruits also coming in, this has to mean many in the portal won't find a D-1 school to go to, or any at all. Geno indicated 250 didn't find a school last year and thinks it will be closer to 300 this year. I wonder how many exiting the U of M won't find a new school? Time will tell.
 

Mnwhiteshoes said:
Don't you think she knows losing is no fun.
How would you quantify talent if those are just numbers. The recruiting class has played basketball against good competition. Lindsey is a smart competitive woman. As Sid Hartman would say, if they follow you around on your job, you wouldn't be demeaning others.
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Not sure how you quantify this being demeaning? Any other job, and not being a former great for the program, they don't get 6 years to turn something around. She has been rightfully given that, given her past work for the program as a player and leader. That can only carry you so far. My point is that it is now time to demonstrate the ability to move a team forward. Right now, there is some convincing that needs to be done - the success (or lack thereof) hasnt demonstrated this can happen. Being a former WNBA great is exactly that.... This is something different. Not sure the adjustment has ever been completely made.
 

EaganGopher22 said:
Interesting. Geno said what I had been wondering for a while. Nearly 1000 in portal and only 341 teams. About 3 per team on average, but also means only 3 spots per team on average available. With a class of freshman recruits also coming in, this has to mean many in the portal won't find a D-1 school to go to, or any at all. Geno indicated 250 didn't find a school last year and thinks it will be closer to 300 this year. I wonder how many exiting the U of M won't find a new school? Time will tell.
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Some kids will probably drop down to D2 or D3 just to play closer to home. Many realize D1 isnt for them, their arent committed like they thought they were. I would guess going in the portal is like an exit interview for some
 

Lindsay is a knowledgeable person in basketball regards, but she has been in over her head. She's even said as much in interviews. That's not necessarily her fault as she was hired before she had time to acquire those skills. My issues I've seen with the team simply go to her not really having her vision. She acquired assets and players, but did they mesh? Did they work with her coaching style? Obviously with them ALL leaving, they have not. She hired a very experienced and diverse group of assistants. I don't think that's the issue here. She is struggling to convey her message to players and getting them to all fall along. We have seen some addition by subtraction with some mid season transfers, but it's never been nor will be consistent until she rights the ship on who and how she recruits and builds a roster. Also it's not uncommon for star players to struggle as a coach. Dawn Staleys and Kim Mulkeys are rare.
 

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