Limegrover's gone but it appears we have the same offense.

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Tackle4loss

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So firing limegrover was moot to the 2016 offense? It appears that way.
 


Who said it was going to be different? Claeys wanted an OC/QB coach and an OL coach. Then brought in three JC transfers in the OL. Still many of the same players at skill spots.

Seems to be differences in pass routes and audibles.


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I'm sure somebody will chime in here, but isn't our efficiency way up on offense?

Schematics, a ton has changed. Very little power run, rarely two TE, tons of pistol, lots of stretch/outside zone, way more running out of 3 WR sets. I bet our 1st down pass percentage is way up too, but that's just eyeballing.

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Last 4 games.

31, 34, 40, 44 points....

That's not how I remember last year's offense let alone scheme changes.
 


Other than the fact that they run different formations, different schemes and score more points. So yeah, pretty much the same thing.
 

MN 83rd in the country in total offense vs easiest schedule in years.

23rd in total defense

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I am troubled with the "Rock, Paper, Scissors" to decide on going for it on 4th and short.
 




Some Day...Is Coming! said:
MN 83rd in the country in total offense vs easiest schedule in years.

23rd in total defense

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Yards alone isn't a great way to look at an offense, especially one that isn't designed to be uptempo. 43rd in the country in scoring, 34th in TOP and 13th in turnovers lost. Not great but not terrible either.
 

If you go back to 2014 and 2015, we actually scored as much or more than we have this year when playing opponents that were on par with our last 4 opponents. To my eye, we actually threw the ball better under Limey, which isn't saying much I know. We threw the ball for 2700 yards last year in 13 games, vs. 1800 this year through 9 games, which is about the same. I like the wrinkles Johnson has added this year, but so far I agree with OP that the effectiveness of our offense is about the same as last year, yet last year we played tougher teams.
 

Yards is really a tough thing to use. Were they garbage time yards? Did we try play slow and keep the ball away from the other team? Or was the offense just more stagnant and couldn't move it? Pass yards even more so. Were we trailing? Did we focus more on establishing the run (and have more success)? You can't just compare straight up because it fully matters what the score differential is (running out clock, second and third stringers in vs having to throw every down trying to come back). I think per the eye test, we still lack for athletes but have done a nicer job getting the ball down the field intermittently and have incorporated some extra wheel passing wrinkles which are nice. But still a work in progress
 

I think the limiting factor on making more changes was Mitch Leidner and the Oline...both of which have serious limitations at this point in the passing game.
 



Surprised nobody has said we have to wait four years for Claeys and Johnson to get their own guys installed...
 


We just see lack of production from the passing game and assume it is all the same. The loss of Lingen to injury has really hurt the passing game. Maybe Still and Carter will step up in the last 3 games. Otherwise we are in trouble.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Last 4 games.

31, 34, 40, 44 points....

That's not how I remember last year's offense let alone scheme changes.
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Against the B1G version of a cupcake shop. I am happy we won but I think we are better than these four and we should beat them every year. I don't like that two of them were closer than they should be. I don't think these teams are on our level and wouldn't spend a lot of time gloating about the outcome or points scored. This is what we should do to these teams.
 

We're getting a lot of points off turnovers I believe we're third in the nation in turnover ratio. I think our passing formations in regards to what other teams run sucks. I think some of it has to do with Mitch and some with our wide receivers.
 

ruppertflywheel said:
We're getting a lot of points off turnovers I believe we're third in the nation in turnover ratio. I think our passing formations in regards to what other teams run sucks. I think some of it has to do with Mitch and some with our wide receivers.
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We've missed Lingen a ton. Virtually no production from the tight end position. Don't know if that's scheme or players. I will say that Limegrover seemed to trust Leidner more than Johnson does.
 

50PoundHead said:
We've missed Lingen a ton. Virtually no production from the tight end position. Don't know if that's scheme or players. I will say that Limegrover seemed to trust Leidner more than Johnson does.
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A pair of picks at end of half and another in the end zone could do that to a guy
 

TruDat said:
Against the B1G version of a cupcake shop. I am happy we won but I think we are better than these four and we should beat them every year. I don't like that two of them were closer than they should be. I don't think these teams are on our level and wouldn't spend a lot of time gloating about the outcome or points scored. This is what we should do to these teams.
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Well offensively 30+ and 40+ points against "we should beat them every year".... complain?
 

TruDat said:
Against the B1G version of a cupcake shop. I am happy we won but I think we are better than these four and we should beat them every year. I don't like that two of them were closer than they should be. I don't think these teams are on our level and wouldn't spend a lot of time gloating about the outcome or points scored. This is what we should do to these teams.
Click to expand...

Well offensively 30+ and 40+ points against "we should beat them every year".... complain?

Also I'm not sure there is nearly the difference between good and sucky teams as there once was. I think that has changed since say the Mason era and etc.

Either way 30+ and 40+ points, I don't care who it is against, that's good.
 

It's not the same offense. Like Iowa said different personnel, formations, etc.

What we've done well:

Capitalized on turnovers
Phenomenal individual effort at the RB position (namely Smith)
Protected Mitch
Low fumble rate

What we've done poorly:

Bad Mitch/good Mitch continues, nothing to see here
Poor offensive efficiency (see below)
Run blocking has been spotty at best
Penalties/general miscommunication leading to turnover
Poor utilization of the FB/TE in the pass game (and poor execution by Woz).
 

Guys,

Short fields have helped the offense. How many points off short fields? I can think of at least 6 opportunities leading to TDs. That's about 4-5 pts/game. Phenomenal, but it's stats masking a mediocre offense.

FEI is an efficiency based stats system that filters out garbage drives, first half ending drives, etc. We are 95th in opponent-adjusted drive efficiency (ie pts expected based on field position).

S&P+ is a different stats model and finds that we are 74th currently (opponent-adjusted). We were 4th in 2005, 58th last year by comparison.

My takeaway is that it's been a bit of a fluky year in terms of turnover ratio, which explains why our eyes see a clunky O but the stats line says 33-34 pt/game. We need to get better and we can be better.

Big boy ball starts Saturday, we need to bring our A game and get a Huge W.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Last 4 games.

31, 34, 40, 44 points....

That's not how I remember last year's offense let alone scheme changes.
Click to expand...

People hate to hear it but you do have to factor in the opposition. Games 3-6 in the Big Ten this year were Maryland, Rutgers, Illinois, Purdue. Same stretch last year was Nebraska, Michigan, Ohio State, and Iowa.

Looking just at points if you compare common opponents:
2015 - CSU 23 - Iowa 35 - Pur 41 - Ill 32 - Total=131 points
2016 - CSU 31 - Iowa 7 - Pur 44 - Ill 40 - Total=122 points

Our points per game overall is gong to be better this year then it was last year because we are playing worse teams, that is just reality. Overall the offense feels a little more consistent this season but I wouldn't say it has taken a massive step forward from where things were last year, which as others pointed out is due in large part to having the same personnel for the most part. Time will tell if Johnson's offense will be an improvement over Limegrover's but I do think it was the right move on Claeys part to try something different.
 

MNVCGUY said:
People hate to hear it but you do have to factor in the opposition. Games 3-6 in the Big Ten this year were Maryland, Rutgers, Illinois, Purdue. Same stretch last year was Nebraska, Michigan, Ohio State, and Iowa.

Looking just at points if you compare common opponents:
2015 - CSU 23 - Iowa 35 - Pur 41 - Ill 32 - Total=131 points
2016 - CSU 31 - Iowa 7 - Pur 44 - Ill 40 - Total=122 points

Our points per game overall is gong to be better this year then it was last year because we are playing worse teams, that is just reality. Overall the offense feels a little more consistent this season but I wouldn't say it has taken a massive step forward from where things were last year, which as others pointed out is due in large part to having the same personnel for the most part. Time will tell if Johnson's offense will be an improvement over Limegrover's but I do think it was the right move on Claeys part to try something different.
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Because the Lime offense would have done the same to the same teams?
 

This offense will not really improve until one or both of two things happen. First, the line has to block better. Someone above said blocking was spotty and they were correct. Second, ML7 or another QB, this year or next, has to get more consistent with passing game. Sure, we don't have great receivers, but ML7 needs to deliver the ball on time when receivers break on their routes, not two or three steps after they make their breaks. When receivers r wide open, hit them in stride so that the 6 yard completion becomes a 15-20 year plus completion. Not sure ML7 can accomplish this but until he or someone else does, we will continue to underachieve offensively.


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A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Because the Lime offense would have done the same to the same teams?
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Yep, I think Limegrover's offense would have put up similar point totals against this most recent stretch of teams. They scored 41 against Purdue last year and 32 against Illinois so I don't think it is a reach at all to say that last years offense could have scored in the low 30's against Maryland and Rutgers like this years team did.
 

After all this time it shouldn't have to be mentioned again that Limegrover's offense was really Kill's offense. The evidence for that is indisputable.
 

Our offense is a little better. I tweeted Jay Johnson giving him my two cents worth thinking one in a million he will read it. . I actually was blocked. He or someone on his staff actually read it. He did listen to my advice though--i will give him that.
 

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