Limegrover and Kill

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Indi1006 said:
75 percent or more of the people you think are your friends actually think you are a d!ck and talk about you behind your back.
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Isn't that true of humanity in general? Just saying... By the way, I luv you too.
 

Indi1006 said:
"Little Buddy", that's funny. I think we've already established you have some combination of mommy, band camp, shoved in a locker and/or my wife and kids can't stand me syndrome that compels you to work so hard to try and be the "smartest" guy on GopherHole. You have a bit of a following on here kind of like Anthony Michael Hall's character in Sixteen Candles has at his high school, so I guess you have that going for you. Overall, I'd feel sorry for you if you weren't such a condescening pain in the arse.
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In addition to making sh1t up (since you know nothing about me), bringing my dead mom, wife and kids into it is always classy.

Which one of us is the one not talking about the subject at hand and instead attacking another poster? Oh yes, I'm the one with the "syndrome".
 

Mulligan said:
+1 "Exhausting" is a great word for the folks coming out of the woodwork after a loss all worked up because they refuse to or aren't capable of looking at the circumstances. You also might have included the suggestions/demands to replace the OC or at least make him just an offensive line coach on your list. Simple concept but maybe Limegrover is running exactly the type of game plan Kill wants him to? Stick to the basics to reduce mistakes. Once the basics are clicking, then think about flashier stuff. Obviously over-simplifying it, but you can't watch him for four years and not see that's one of Kill's main tenets. Be critical of it--disagree with it--hell, bitch about it--but quit acting like you know more about it.
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I think you have locked into one of Kill's success traits. At the same time if it makes you predictable, it also makes it a vulnerability. So, the debate is all about degrees of magnitude. Not certain if we can come up with an answer if we don't know how significant a vulnerability his stratagem can become. Fortunately, we get to see it unfold. This is why I love football.
 

FrankenLeidner! It's Alive!

Dr JeKill and Mr Lime came out of the dank laboratory with a new creation...FrankenLeidner! It's alive! I said it couldn't be done. Some said he was mad. I said it was impossible to put his parts together and make him function as a BCS QB. I underestimated the skills of the EEEEEEEEEEEEvil Dr JeKill. It's Alive! It's FrankenLeidner!
 

Limegrover tends to get too much credit when we win and too much blame when we lose on here. Player execution and the quality of defense we play will be the main reasons why our offense will look good or bad in a given game. What exactly did Limegrover call in the Michigan game that was so brilliant and creative compared to the previous 4 games? The bottom line is that the offensive line played well, Cobb played out of his mind, and Leidner had his best game of the season. Limegrover called a nice game but it's not like he had some epiphany last week during game prep. In the TCU game we were just overmatched and made way too many mistakes.
 


jaymil said:
Limegrover tends to get too much credit when we win and too much blame when we lose on here. Player execution and the quality of defense we play will be the main reasons why our offense will look good or bad in a given game. What exactly did Limegrover call in the Michigan game that was so brilliant and creative compared to the previous 4 games? The bottom line is that the offensive line played well, Cobb played out of his mind, and Leidner had his best game of the season. Limegrover called a nice game but it's not like he had some epiphany last week during game prep. In the TCU game we were just overmatched and made way too many mistakes.
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Ummm, for one, it was the first time all year that Limegrover often mixed in the short passing game to compliment the running game. Did you honestly not see any changes between the @Mich game and the previous four schemes?
 

cncmin said:
Ummm, for one, it was the first time all year that Limegrover often mixed in the short passing game to compliment the running game. Did you honestly not see any changes between the @Mich game and the previous four schemes?
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Offensive schemes are dominate and do what ya need to win. The TCU game was an abomination. The rest? Dominate, go with whats working, and win.

If ya think Limegrover is a dummy, you are a dummy.
 

cncmin said:
Ummm, for one, it was the first time all year that Limegrover often mixed in the short passing game to compliment the running game. Did you honestly not see any changes between the @Mich game and the previous four schemes?
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Are we not 4-1. Why do we complain about a game plan when it results in a W. SJSU was odd, but it has been well documented that it was mainly an effort to keep kids healthy. Isn't that more important than a flashy O?
 

Different opponent - different game plan. Just because play "Y waggle right power flip tango" worked against opponent X, that does not guarantee that it will work against opponent Z.
 



short ornery norwegian said:
Different opponent - different game plan. Just because play "Y waggle right power flip tango" worked against opponent X, that does not guarantee that it will work against opponent Z.
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Never never never tell that to a GH expert.
 

wait!what? said:
Dr JeKill and Mr Lime came out of the dank laboratory with a new creation...FrankenLeidner! It's alive! I said it couldn't be done. Some said he was mad. I said it was impossible to put his parts together and make him function as a BCS QB. I underestimated the skills of the EEEEEEEEEEEEvil Dr JeKill. It's Alive! It's FrankenLeidner!
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Yay - you're back! Is Leidner a B1G QB yet???
 





short ornery norwegian said:
Different opponent - different game plan. Just because play "Y waggle right power flip tango" worked against opponent X, that does not guarantee that it will work against opponent Z.
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Exactly. Limegrover mentioned specifically that the reason the jet sweep was absent against TCU was because it wouldn't be successful against their D.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Different opponent - different game plan. Just because play "Y waggle right power flip tango" worked against opponent X, that does not guarantee that it will work against opponent Z.
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But, but, but the sweep to the right and left with Barry Sanders worked against every opponent in Super Tecmo Bowl.
 


Spoofin said:
Are we not 4-1. Why do we complain about a game plan when it results in a W. SJSU was odd, but it has been well documented that it was mainly an effort to keep kids healthy. Isn't that more important than a flashy O?
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Benefits of incorporating a passing game were explained in other threads.
 

jaymil said:
Exactly. Limegrover mentioned specifically that the reason the jet sweep was absent against TCU was because it wouldn't be successful against their D.
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LOL. Brilliant! So employ something else that totally flopped, keep doing what isn't working, go away from things that actually have been shown to work for the team in the past, and don't try anything else to mix it up. This makes total sense now.

Every time the employed offense has been stale and conservative, the offense has struggled. When it's been mixed up, it has worked more often than not, including last Saturday. I don't get how anyone can argue against an offense that mixes up the playcalling in this system, given the results we've seen.

Someone said that we stuck to a conservative running game in the pre-B1G season to avoid injury. So running your best offensive player upwards of 30 times a game is a good way to avoid injury to your best offensive player?
 



Dr.Don said:
And we used it WHEN NEEDED at Michigan.
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No. For the first time all season it was used as part of the offensive gameplan, not only when needed. And this is a big reason why the passing game worked.
 

cncmin said:
No. For the first time all season it was used as part of the offensive gameplan, not only when needed. And this is a big reason why the passing game worked.
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Ok, let's argue semantics. :blah::blah::blah:
 

cncmin said:
No. For the first time all season it was used as part of the offensive gameplan, not only when needed. And this is a big reason why the passing game worked.
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nm
 

cncmin said:
No. For the first time all season it was used as part of the offensive gameplan, not only when needed. And this is a big reason why the passing game worked.
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Did you WATCH the TCU game? We clearly came out with a different strategy than the other noncon games (including our starter throwing 29 times by the way). You can be critical of how those plays / formations worked or didn't work (hell, I was extremely frustrated with us running out of the shotgun on 3rd and 3) but don't try and act like we had the same boring RUTM gameplan all 4 games.
 

Has anyone considered that Michigan was the first game that Coach Z spent the whole game on the sidelines? I think that had a lot to do with Leidners success.
 

Scheme

cncmin said:
LOL. Brilliant! So employ something else that totally flopped, keep doing what isn't working, go away from things that actually have been shown to work for the team in the past, and don't try anything else to mix it up. This makes total sense now.

Every time the employed offense has been stale and conservative, the offense has struggled. When it's been mixed up, it has worked more often than not, including last Saturday. I don't get how anyone can argue against an offense that mixes up the playcalling in this system, given the results we've seen.

Someone said that we stuck to a conservative running game in the pre-B1G season to avoid injury. So running your best offensive player upwards of 30 times a game is a good way to avoid injury to your best offensive player?
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In agreement with your comments. Our offensive game plan versus TCU was flawed plain and simple. Much of the time it was unrecognizable, but also ineffective. Just not willing to buy into the theme that nobody including us will ever move the ball against TCU's defense. If they roll through their schedule giving up 10 points or less to opponents okay, I'll be very wrong about that. One example: Rodrick running straight ahead in quick BANG fashion had two nice gains in a row and was never heard from again. Cobb running three yards diagonal behind the line didn't work versus their defense. Long passes are not high percentage plays for us, especially without something successful in front of the defense prior. etc etc
 

60's Guy said:
In agreement with your comments. Our offensive game plan versus TCU was flawed plain and simple. Much of the time it was unrecognizable, but also ineffective. Just not willing to buy into the theme that nobody including us will ever move the ball against TCU's defense. If they roll through their schedule giving up 10 points or less to opponents okay, I'll be very wrong about that. One example: Rodrick running straight ahead in quick BANG fashion had two nice gains in a row and was never heard from again. Cobb running three yards diagonal behind the line didn't work versus their defense. Long passes are not high percentage plays for us, especially without something successful in front of the defense prior. etc etc
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Rodrick, missed a block in pass protection and Leidner got clobbered, so he was benched. We'll find out about TCU real quick, they play Oklahoma and Baylor, the next two weeks.
 

cncmin said:
Every time the employed offense has been stale and conservative, the offense has struggled. When it's been mixed up, it has worked more often than not, including last Saturday. I don't get how anyone can argue against an offense that mixes up the playcalling in this system, given the results we've seen.
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We're 1-1 when mixing it up this year. TCU drilled us and we beat Michigan. Most if not all OC's go into a game wanting to mix it up, but they change plans based on how the game goes. SJSU didn't want us to pass for some reason. TCU dared us to pass and when we did we failed. Michigan could not stop pass or run. You have to look at the whole game. It's not just play calling. I would say it's 75% execution of the players and 25% play calling.
 

cncmin said:
Every time the employed offense has been stale and conservative, the offense has struggled. When it's been mixed up, it has worked more often than not, including last Saturday. I don't get how anyone can argue against an offense that mixes up the playcalling in this system, given the results we've seen.
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Of course, this assumes it is all play calling and not player performance. You would have to acknowledge that Mitch is progressing and playing better now and that gives Limey more options. What if the coaching staff was calling plays based on how well someone is performing? That would be totally innovative. I think, unlike what you are seeing at Michigan, that is exactly what Kill, Claeys and Limegrover excel at and is why we are getting W's.
 

goldy93 said:
Of course, this assumes it is all play calling and not player performance. You would have to acknowledge that Mitch is progressing and playing better now and that gives Limey more options. What if the coaching staff was calling plays based on how well someone is performing? That would be totally innovative. I think, unlike what you are seeing at Michigan, that is exactly what Kill, Claeys and Limegrover excel at and is why we are getting W's.
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Your assumption here is that Leidner is progressing i a vacuum...that he suddenly got confidence regardless of the situations he's been put in. I'd argue that Limegrover contributed directly to Leidner's lack of confidence early in the season, in particular, but only letting Leidner throw in "passing situations". By mixing up the playcalling, the pass plays have opened up more. And by mixing in some high-percentage passes, especially early in the game, Leidner's confidence increases.
 

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