Let's Try Again: North Carolina Infractions Report Friday

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Bad Gopher said:
This is a good read, by Dan Wetzel:
https://sports.yahoo.com/north-caro...rassing-academic-fraud-defense-010926838.html

This part jumped out at me:

“The NCAA defers to academies on matters of academic fraud,” the NCAA conceded. “As institutions of higher education, the NCAA membership trusts fellow members to hold themselves accountable in matters of academic integrity.”

If this is really the case, how was the NCAA able declare the U of M situation to be fraud and come down so hard on us? Why didn't they defer to the U to "hold themselves accountable?" Or did they, and the U conceded themselves that, yes, it was a terrible violation? Is it really that Gangelhoff was only writing papers for athletes and not others? Or is it an outrageous double standard, and the NCAA is just hoping everyone accepts this position and moves on? Don't they realize what kind of precedent this sets for colleges to duplicate UNC's methods? Or will someone in the future do the same thing and get punished severely because they're not UNC?
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I would like to find one of the new U*NC t-shirts-- in fact, I have a t-shirt guy, i think i will have him make some up. And then wait for the NCAA to come after me for using NCAA team logos without their permission. Maybe i will set up all proceeds to fund some athletes directly just to make sure they notice.

I bet the kid that had the youtube channel and can't play football because of it is really happy with the power of the NCAA today.


i just did a quick google search for UNC apparel and they beat me to it- kind of. They all say NC or Carolina-- no mention of a University at all.
 

TBrew said:
This, from the NY Times article yesterday: “The N.C.A.A. did not dispute that the University of North Carolina was guilty of running one of the worst academic fraud schemes in college sports history, involving fake classes that enabled dozens of athletes to gain and maintain their eligibility. But there will be no penalties, the organization said, because no rules were broken.”


There you have it. In black and white. Couldn’t be any clearer. The NCAA is a powerless, gutless, pitiful waste. It exists solely to line the pockets of its executives and big-time member schools through the exploitation of young (mostly black) athletes. So I say, let’s just get rid of it entirely. No more NCAA. Fire every last executive, investigator, secretary and employee. Shutter every last “blue ribbon commission.” Close down every investigation. Who needs them anyway. Save a lot of money and headaches for everybody. Hell, if you can’t punish a school for engaging in “one of the worst academic fraud schemes in college sports history,” what’s the point?

And while we are at it, let’s drop the charade of the “student-athlete” as well. It’s a joke and everyone knows it. From now on, players can openly solicit contracts and play for whatever “school” pays them the most. Screw it. Doesn’t matter what their high school grades or SAT scores are. Who really cares about that. Certainly not the NCAA. They can go to class, or not. Entirely up the them. No papers, no tests, no grades or any of that crap. They can unionize, engage in collective bargaining, go on strike, whatever they want. When their 4 years are up, if they decide to stay that long, they get a nice, post-game handshake and, if they negotiated it, a juicy little termination bonus—and no diploma. If they want an actual degree, they can come back when their playing career are over, and take real courses, with real teachers, get real grades and pay real tuition. And in the meantime, assholes like Mark Emmert and the rest of those NCAA clowns, can go out and get real jobs, with real responsibilities, and earn an honest living for once in their pathetic lives.
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Phenomenal post.
 


CentralGopher said:
I don’t. The UNC athletes may not be getting an unfair advantage over other UNC students but they are getting an unfair advantage over other NCAA athletes. Other schools don’t cheat with fake classes to keep athletes eligible.


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I think totally stinks, but my point is that I think it is silly that we all are yelling for the NCAA to come swooping in to fix the farce that is higher education. Everyone just seems fine that a college doesn't even care about the absolute bare educational essential of having real classes that have value. The NCAA be damned, UNC and any other institution that has fake classes for its students, athlete or not, shouldn't be able to accept any state or federal money. But nobody is calling for that because it is just accepted that higher education is now a self-serving joke to line pockets and serve politcal goals.
 

WoodburyTim said:
I think totally stinks, but my point is that I think it is silly that we all are yelling for the NCAA to come swooping in to fix the farce that is higher education. Everyone just seems fine that a college doesn't even care about the absolute bare educational essential of having real classes that have value. The NCAA be damned, UNC and any other institution that has fake classes for its students, athlete or not, shouldn't be able to accept any state or federal money. But nobody is calling for that because it is just accepted that higher education is now a self-serving joke to line pockets and serve politcal goals.
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Great point!
 



un-UNC should be academically sanctioned or lose its academic accreditation because of insufficient academic standards! That would teach those cheaters by having the whole institution punished for choosing sports over academics.


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per Pat:

Jan Gangelhoff was 56 when she died from cancer in March 2005. This was unfortunate for Jan, family and friends, and perhaps in the wake of Friday’s news from the NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions, for the legacy of Minnesota’s finest on-court days in men’s basketball.

Gangelhoff was the office manager for Clem Haskins’ program, and came forward to inform first the St. Paul Pioneer Press and then enforcement officials of having written 400 pieces of course work for 20 basketball players from 1995 to 1998.

This revelation wound up taking credit away from the Gophers for the 1997 Big Ten championship, a place in the 1997 Final Four and the 1998 NIT championship. It also cost Haskins his job and Bobby Jackson official recognition for his greatness as a Gopher.

But here’s the deal: If Jan still was with us, perhaps she could recall a few of those papers finding their way to non-basketball players — a late-breaking revelation that this aggressive tutoring was not restricted to athletes.

And then maybe the NCAA could announce, “Based on the general availability, the panel cannot conclude a systemic effort to impermissibly benefit student athletes,’’ and then the Gophers could get back all those wins and various banners.

Plus, the Gophers could bring back that montage painting that used to grace a basketball area, where Clem was painted away but the person charged with doing so neglected to remove his shoes.

Yes. The absurdity of North Carolina disavowing the report it commissioned (and once approved) on two decades of organized academic fraud benefiting scores of athletes and getting away with it; heck, Ski U Mah coming up with a new theory on its scandal could be no greater scam.

There was no attendance required and only the submission of one paper (or two shorter papers) to get class credit at UNC. And the grading was done by Deborah Crowder, a hard-core Tar Heels fan and basically an office manager.

My favorite: a 146-word “final’’ paper on Rosa Parks that earned an A-minus from Crowder for an athlete.

http://www.startribune.com/north-ca...harges-might-just-work-for-gophers/450928743/

Go Gophers!!
 

BleedGopher said:
per Pat:

Jan Gangelhoff was 56 when she died from cancer in March 2005. This was unfortunate for Jan, family and friends, and perhaps in the wake of Friday’s news from the NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions, for the legacy of Minnesota’s finest on-court days in men’s basketball.

Gangelhoff was the office manager for Clem Haskins’ program, and came forward to inform first the St. Paul Pioneer Press and then enforcement officials of having written 400 pieces of course work for 20 basketball players from 1995 to 1998.

This revelation wound up taking credit away from the Gophers for the 1997 Big Ten championship, a place in the 1997 Final Four and the 1998 NIT championship. It also cost Haskins his job and Bobby Jackson official recognition for his greatness as a Gopher.

But here’s the deal: If Jan still was with us, perhaps she could recall a few of those papers finding their way to non-basketball players — a late-breaking revelation that this aggressive tutoring was not restricted to athletes.

And then maybe the NCAA could announce, “Based on the general availability, the panel cannot conclude a systemic effort to impermissibly benefit student athletes,’’ and then the Gophers could get back all those wins and various banners.

Plus, the Gophers could bring back that montage painting that used to grace a basketball area, where Clem was painted away but the person charged with doing so neglected to remove his shoes.

Yes. The absurdity of North Carolina disavowing the report it commissioned (and once approved) on two decades of organized academic fraud benefiting scores of athletes and getting away with it; heck, Ski U Mah coming up with a new theory on its scandal could be no greater scam.

There was no attendance required and only the submission of one paper (or two shorter papers) to get class credit at UNC. And the grading was done by Deborah Crowder, a hard-core Tar Heels fan and basically an office manager.

My favorite: a 146-word “final’’ paper on Rosa Parks that earned an A-minus from Crowder for an athlete.

http://www.startribune.com/north-ca...harges-might-just-work-for-gophers/450928743/

Go Gophers!!
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All I can hold on to is that part of the what the U did in coming coming clean was that we were not just upholding the honesty of our athletic program, but the integrity of our University. North Carolina has made it clear with this situation that they will protect their athletic department even if it means that their academics are called into question. Everybody who holds a UNC degree should be ashamed of how that accomplishment was degraded by the revelation that fake classes and fake degrees were available to any and all at North Carolina.

If they don't want to stand up and denounce what happened there, they should at least know that the rest of us consider them a college graduate as much as we consider the jokester next door a holy man who paid $49.95 online to become a minster in the Church of the Flowing Water.
 



So if Rick Pitino can show that the strippers and hookers were available to other students - not just basketball players, does that make it OK?

And, if I was a shoe company executive, I would quickly arrange for a payoff to the parents of a chem major or accounting major - then go, "see, it wasn't only available to basketball players." The new perfect defense for all possible allegations of violations.
 

I just purchased a North Carolina diploma online for $100. It's that easy!
 


Bogus in so many ways. There were fraudulent classes. Athletes took those classes. They were eligible because they took them. If that doesn’t break a rule found in the thousands of pages of NCAA regulations, investigators just aren’t looking hard enough. Disgusted.
 



WoodburyTim said:
All I can hold on to is that part of the what the U did in coming coming clean was that we were not just upholding the honesty of our athletic program, but the integrity of our University. North Carolina has made it clear with this situation that they will protect their athletic department even if it means that their academics are called into question. Everybody who holds a UNC degree should be ashamed of how that accomplishment was degraded by the revelation that fake classes and fake degrees were available to any and all at North Carolina.

If they don't want to stand up and denounce what happened there, they should at least know that the rest of us consider them a college graduate as much as we consider the jokester next door a holy man who paid $49.95 online to become a minster in the Church of the Flowing Water.
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Mn is holier than thou. Bare our chest and let anyone and everyone take their shots. Then we self inflict more punishment.

Any questions why mn doesn’t win in B.B. or fb?
 

So when does the Final Four banner go back up?
 


GopherRock said:
So when does the Final Four banner go back up?
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Never.

Trip to ff never happened. Just ask ncaa.

In fact some additional punishment is forthcoming from kaler. Just to make sure mn is clean in mind and spirit.
 

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Bad Gopher said:
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I'm sure North Carolina is first in line in this soul searching. Forgive my cynicism, but I expect this has little to do with soul searching anywhere, but it's all about getting ahead of a story and the institutions being prepared to be publicly scandalized by behavior they invited and looked the other way for years on. Then they can offer their scapegoat and move on. As horrible as this is, I see nothing coming of it in terms of punishments for programs or any real reform. For that to happen, the schools have to swear off the shoe money and that takes more courage than any of those bureaucrats have.
 

goldenboy said:
Bogus in so many ways. There were fraudulent classes. Athletes took those classes. They were eligible because they took them. If that doesn’t break a rule found in the thousands of pages of NCAA regulations, investigators just aren’t looking hard enough. Disgusted.
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Investigators (experts whose career is based on enforcing NCAA rules) found scores of violations. They were overruled by a committee of administrators who basically do that as a second or third job.
 

WanderingGopher said:
Investigators (experts whose career is based on enforcing NCAA rules) found scores of violations. They were overruled by a committee of administrators who basically do that as a second or third job.
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Speculation, or do you know something?
 

On November 10th, we should raise our 90's banners again, and then the university should tweet a picture to the NCAA, saying "Your move."
 



Bad Gopher said:
Speculation, or do you know something?
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I read one article that said the enforcement people found scores of violations and wanted to lower the boom on NC, but were overruled by the committee on infractions. Can't blame this one on the workers, but those who reviewed the work.
 

gopherguy15 said:
On November 10th, we should raise our 90's banners again, and then the university should tweet a picture to the NCAA, saying "Your move."
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That would be awesome, but being the University of Minnesota, a fleet of black Apache NCAA helicopters would immediately descend on the Barn and blow it up with multiple missiles. Because they take academic integrity seriously only when they want to, and someone needs to pay for North Carolina.
 

Holy Man said:
I read one article that said the enforcement people found scores of violations and wanted to lower the boom on NC, but were overruled by the committee on infractions. Can't blame this one on the workers, but those who reviewed the work.
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If there's any truth to this, that's explosive. Again, clean programs and coaches should be incensed and should revolt.
 

Holy Man said:
I read one article that said the enforcement people found scores of violations and wanted to lower the boom on NC, but were overruled by the committee on infractions. Can't blame this one on the workers, but those who reviewed the work.
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link?
 

The NCAA asked the wrong question.

The question should not have been, "Did any athlete receive something not available to the general student population?"

But, "Were there athletes would not have been eligible if not for the phony classes?"

If the answer to the second question was yes, any games that those athletes took part in should have been forfeited.
 


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