Leidner Shows Signs of Improvement

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sonnygarcia said:
I haven't soured on the Gophs, I'm as big of a Gopher fan now as I ever was. I think the difference now is I see they have all the pieces to be the team we've always wanted them to be, so I see the QB position playing at such a low level relative to all the other position groups and it pisses me the 'F' off because I know that's the reason we'll fall 1 game short of making it to Indy again. And all I want to see happen is for us to finally break through, but we can't do that if we aren't able to be balanced on offense. Back when we were terrible I didn't get irked by anything because I had zero expectations, we were just going to be bad and I knew it and didn't really care, I guess. Now I care more (even though it doesn't appear that way).
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Mitch was 7th in the B1G in QB rating. He was middle of the road. No doubt, if we had a top 10 QB in the NCAA we would be a better team, but some people act like he was the worst Qb in the B1G and that is simply not true. Moreover, to be pissed at the coaching staff due to their inability to recruit such a player is puzzling. When have we ever recruited someone of that level at the QB spot? Gray?
 

goldy93 said:
Mitch was 7th in the B1G in QB rating. He was middle of the road. No doubt, if we had a top 10 QB in the NCAA we would be a better team, but some people act like he was the worst Qb in the B1G and that is simply not true. Moreover, to be pissed at the coaching staff due to their inability to recruit such a player is puzzling. When have we ever recruited someone of that level at the QB spot? Gray?
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I'm with you, bring back BREW!
 

goldy93 said:
Moreover, to be pissed at the coaching staff due to their inability to recruit such a player is puzzling.
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Why? You don't think Kill is pissed about the QB position? You can tell by comments he's made in the press this spring that he's lighting a fire in certain spots. He's gushed about Weber and says he will really help the QB position, that it was a big time hire, etc, etc. Why do you think he's been saying that stuff? I'll give you a hint, he ain't happy with Coach Z.

goldy93 said:
When have we ever recruited someone of that level at the QB spot? Gray?
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Like I've said numerous times. We don't need elite, we need average. Any of the guys from Mase's years would have put us in Indy last year, no doubt about it:

Adam Weber
Bryan Cupito
Asad Abdul-Khaliq
Billy Cockerham


Gray probably would have as well. He threw a nice ball but man the guys around him were terrible. Would have been nice to see what he could have done coming in to the current situation.
 

I'm probably off base at this point with Perra. We don't know and won't know (for a year, maybe two) yet whether he can be the type of QB we need, but it's too early to say he can't.
 




sonnygarcia said:
Like I've said numerous times. We don't need elite, we need average. Any of the guys from Mase's years would have put us in Indy last year, no doubt about it:

Adam Weber
Bryan Cupito
Asad Abdul-Khaliq
Billy Cockerham
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So, what is your definition of "average"? You do realize the 4 guys you listed are statistically 4 of the best QB's we have had at the U? So, your definition of "average" would be for Mitch (or someone else) to be the all time passing leader at the U in yards (Weber), or all time TD passes at the U (Cupito and Adbul-Khaliq tied, Weber right behind them), or the all time completion % QB at the U?

Got it. By the way, Cupito's completion percentage went from 47% his sophomore year to nearly 60% his senior year. Too bad a QB's worth is judged by what he does his sophomore year.
 

spoofin/93, you blind homers really think Mitch is average? I wish I could live in your fantasy world. We were not in the top 100 in Passing last year in the FBS. This is a reflection of Mitch as a passer and the coaches confidence in his abilities. Do you guys even watch the games? Have you played sports before?

And when I listed the 4 QBs of the Mason era it was in response to someone asking when the last time we've been able to recruit a good QB was. So I listed Mase's 4 starters and said any of them would have taken us to Indy (as a response to 93's clueless rebuttal). And I don't care where they stand in the U's history book in terms of passing records; we've never had good enough football for that to mean anything (mind you passing was not popular when the juggernaut Gopher teams of the pre 70's were playing). My point is they would have been average QBs when you look at college football as a whole, and we need an average QB.
 

Mitcheroo would probably not start at QB for any other Big Ten team. In Mitcheroo's defense he rarely makes a mistake on his reads and hands the ball off cleanly almost everytime. Yep, he is inconsistent at throwing the ball. he proved me wrong last year in leading the team to the citrus bowl. credit where credit is due.
 



sonnygarcia said:
spoofin/93, you blind homers really think Mitch is average? I wish I could live in your fantasy world. We were not in the top 100 in Passing last year in the FBS. This is a reflection of Mitch as a passer and the coaches confidence in his abilities. Do you guys even watch the games? Have you played sports before?

And when I listed the 4 QBs of the Mason era it was in response to someone asking when the last time we've been able to recruit a good QB was. So I listed Mase's 4 starters and said any of them would have taken us to Indy (as a response to 93's clueless rebuttal). And I don't care where they stand in the U's history book in terms of passing records; we've never had good enough football for that to mean anything (mind you passing was not popular when the juggernaut Gopher teams of the pre 70's were playing). My point is they would have been average QBs when you look at college football as a whole, and we need an average QB.
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Wow. You really come off as a prick when you post.
 

sonnygarcia said:
spoofin/93, you blind homers really think Mitch is average?
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Statistically, he is an average Big Ten QB. Sorry to burst your bubble.

sonnygarcia said:
We were not in the top 100 in Passing last year in the FBS.
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We were not in the top 100 in passing yards (assuming that's what you were going for) last year because we were not in the top 100 in pass attempts. It's not rocket science.

sonnygarcia said:
This is a reflection of Mitch as a passer and the coaches confidence in his abilities.
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This is a reflection of the fact that we don't pass the ball much. The coaches' confidence in his abilities is reflected by the fact that he played virtually every snap when healthy last year.

sonnygarcia said:
Do you guys even watch the games?
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I watched a team that had a winning Big Ten record for the first time in 11 seasons and go to a January bowl game for the first time in over 50 years.

sonnygarcia said:
Have you played sports before?
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This is a total non sequitur and has nothing to do with anything.
 

dpodoll68 said:
We were not in the top 100 in passing yards (assuming that's what you were going for) last year because we were not in the top 100 in pass attempts. It's not rocket science.
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Why has Kill said we need to pass the ball more and become more effective at it? He knows we need a balanced offense to be able to beat the big boys, otherwise we'll just be playing in moral victory type games with them. The fact we aren't passing the ball much is because we can't, not because Kill doesn't want to.

dpodoll68 said:
This is a reflection of the fact that we don't pass the ball much. The coaches' confidence in his abilities is reflected by the fact that he played virtually every snap when healthy last year.
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When you don't have another QB on he roster who can make a down-the-field pass you don't have a choice. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

dpodoll68 said:
I watched a team that had a winning Big Ten record for the first time in 11 seasons and go to a January bowl game for the first time in over 50 years.
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That's great, usually an 8-4 team doesn't get that type of recognition but we benefited with Michigan/PSU being in situations that those schools typically don't find themselves in and Wisc going to a different bowl game because they were at the Citrus the prior year. Not downplaying the 8-4, it was good, but need to look deeper at the circumstances surrounding the outcome.

dpodoll68 said:
This is a total non sequitur and has nothing to do with anything.
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It might explain why someone would think Mitch Leidner is a good enough quarterback to lead us to victories against top teams like Wisc, OSU, TCU, etc.
 

sonnygarcia said:
Like I've said numerous times. We don't need elite, we need average. Any of the guys from Mase's years would have put us in Indy last year, no doubt about it:

Adam Weber
Bryan Cupito
Asad Abdul-Khaliq
Billy Cockerham


Gray probably would have as well. He threw a nice ball but man the guys around him were terrible..
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You had me right up until this last comment. Then you completely lost me.
 



sonnygarcia said:
The fact we aren't passing the ball much is because we can't, not because Kill doesn't want to.
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Nah, Kill has never had his offenses pass the ball much in his entire career. He always runs the ball somewhere around 60-70% of the time. Even in 2010 when Chandler Harnish had a really good year and helped to get Kill this job, they still ran the ball over 63% of the time. We passed the ball slightly more than 70% of the time last year. I'm not sure what makes you think Kill suddenly wants to pass the ball so much when he's never done so in a career that spans over 3 decades.

sonnygarcia said:
That's great, usually an 8-4 team doesn't get that type of recognition but we benefited with Michigan/PSU being in situations that those schools typically don't find themselves in and Wisc going to a different bowl game because they were at the Citrus the prior year. Not downplaying the 8-4, it was good, but need to look deeper at the circumstances surrounding the outcome.
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Whatever excuses you want to make, those were the facts. Does it bother you that much that Mitch Leidner led this team to a season like we haven't seen in a while?

sonnygarcia said:
It might explain why someone would think Mitch Leidner is a good enough quarterback to lead us to victories against top teams like Wisc, OSU, TCU, etc.
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No, whether or not someone played football, basketball, volleyball, golf, or tiddlywinks has nothing to do with their opinion of Mitch Leidner as a major college football QB.
 




Leidner has shown he has the ability to be a good QB in my opinion. It's now a matter of putting it all together and being more consistent. Leidner's lack of consistency made our WRs look worse than they really were. At the same time, our WRs many times failed to get any separation which made it much harder for Leidner to be successful. Hopefully the young talent can help the passing game right away.

I think it's ridiculous to say Leidner will be a good or even great QB in the next two years. At the same time, I think it's ridiculous to say he can't be a good or even great QB either.

If me saying this makes me a "blind homer" and someone who doesn't watch know what they're talking about, then so be it. To me it is just an opinion that is no better or worse than anyone else's.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Leidner's lack of consistency made our WRs look worse than they really were.

At the same time, I think it's ridiculous to say he can't be a good or even great QB either.
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Perhaps some of his "lack of consistency," which JK has also mentioned, was due to him not being a typical whining-about-injuries diva. My respect for ML has been on a steady rise since he was handed the job in Jan. 2014 and I'm not ashamed to repeat that I expect him to contend for All-B1G before he leaves.
 

killme said:
Perhaps some of his "lack of consistency," which JK has also mentioned, was due to him not being a typical whining-about-injuries diva. My respect for ML has been on a steady rise since he was handed the job in Jan. 2014 and I'm not ashamed to repeat that I expect him to contend for All-B1G before he leaves.
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Heaven forbid there are no bullies in GH. As a young kid growing up having no bullying talent, I was often on the receiving end.

I never broke the cardinal rule: Keep your mouth shut and take your medicine.

I noticed that the kids that bawled got more coming to them. So, instead I smiled as they were administering my medicine and I told them, "ouch you got me good!". They stopped their frenzy. Service with a smile they say.

Mitch is prescribing to the same rule for the benefit of Gopherholers. He keeps working hard and taking his medicine. He has no choice. He has no talent.
 

sonnygarcia said:
spoofin/93, you blind homers really think Mitch is average? I wish I could live in your fantasy world. We were not in the top 100 in Passing last year in the FBS. This is a reflection of Mitch as a passer and the coaches confidence in his abilities. Do you guys even watch the games? Have you played sports before?

And when I listed the 4 QBs of the Mason era it was in response to someone asking when the last time we've been able to recruit a good QB was. So I listed Mase's 4 starters and said any of them would have taken us to Indy (as a response to 93's clueless rebuttal). And I don't care where they stand in the U's history book in terms of passing records; we've never had good enough football for that to mean anything (mind you passing was not popular when the juggernaut Gopher teams of the pre 70's were playing). My point is they would have been average QBs when you look at college football as a whole, and we need an average QB.
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Easy to be a critic, hard to be a quarterback.
 

Mr. sonnygarcia -
You seem to be fairly "stat" based (which is fine), so I want to pose a question to you to get it on record. Please tell us roughly what kind of passing numbers you need to see out of Mitch to be pacified (yds, tds, completion %, ints). If we all are going to argue, we might as well be specific and be able to track the argument throughout the upcoming season.
 


GoldenRodents said:
Mitch will make a quantum leap
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I hope not:

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GoldenRodents said:
Mitch will make a quantum leap
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According to quantum entanglement, if a pair of football passes is generated in such a way that their total spin is known to be zero, and one football is found to have a clockwise spin on a certain axis, then the spin of the other football, measured on the same axis, will be found to be counterclockwise.
Yet everyone knows that, on any scale, Mitch can't spin the ball either way!
 

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