Lee Hutton on with Doogie

Before you can sue the U for damages you will have to get it overturned in the court of law. He did say that he has clients willing to take it all the way to the Federal Courts. If overturned there I imagine you then could set up for damages. He did cite the Duke Lacrosse fiasco that ended up paying out $30MM to those players involved. I am not a lawyer but Bob may be able to weigh in.
 

Incomplete interview notes and lack of taped conversations.

There is a lot of stuff on here that raises questions. Again - assuming Hutton is giving an accurate account - he says the EOAA investigator interviewed the female accuser 7 times. She interviewed each Gopher player once for 15 minutes each. A Gopher player says that, in his interview, he gave his account of the evening, but in the official report, it said something different. The investigator said that she determined the player was lying. Also, the interviews were not taped, so the only record of the interviews is in the investigator's written notes, which according to Hutton are not complete.

So the University of Minnesota, used information from a report from a single interviewer, who has incomplete interview notes, a lack of taped interviews for evidence with the accused players, conducted interviews in length of 15 minutes, then used a single interviewer's opinion that the player was lying after a 15 minute conversation and they used that for these code of conduct suspensions. This whole hearing process is a charade and not just a Kangaroo court with a predetermined outcome, this thing is going to civil court pretty quickly with the University likely paying out some severe settlements to the accused players. I cannot believe that President Kaler allowed this farce to go forward, when in reality he has opened up the University to some potentially damaging lawsuits.

For the University of Minnesota, this is why you use professional investigators and trained personnel even in a situation like this. When there is that much involved or at stake with serious accusations, academic records and transcripts all of this stuff reported to the News media. Where were University lawyers in this situation, advising the President's office, and the Athletic department. Yes it is a separate office that conducted this investigation, but at the same time representatives from those offices should have been following up to ensure because of the allegations that a professional investigation occurred. When the accusations are this serious in nature, you better have ensured a fair process, that was conducted with great integrity.

I know they have to do this Title IX investigation, why not hire professional investigators that you know audio or video tape these depositions and interviews. With something as serious as Expulsion and loss of scholarship based on one sided accusations,you better have some good balanced evidence to back up the accusations you are making against a student and not just building the case based on the accusations and statements of one accuser and some faulty evidence presented by an unprofessional investigator.

What a travesty and what a complete waste of taxpayers money.
 

So the University of Minnesota, used information from a report from a single interviewer, who has incomplete interview notes, a lack of taped interviews for evidence with the accused players, conducted interviews in length of 15 minutes, then used a single interviewer's opinion that the player was lying after a 15 minute conversation and they used that for these code of conduct suspensions. This whole hearing process is a charade and not just a Kangaroo court with a predetermined outcome, this thing is going to civil court pretty quickly with the University likely paying out some severe settlements to the accused players. I cannot believe that President Kaler allowed this farce to go forward, when in reality he has opened up the University to some potentially damaging lawsuits.

For the University of Minnesota, this is why you use professional investigators and trained personnel even in a situation like this. When there is that much involved or at stake with serious accusations, academic records and transcripts all of this stuff reported to the News media. Where were University lawyers in this situation, advising the President's office, and the Athletic department. Yes it is a separate office that conducted this investigation, but at the same time representatives from those offices should have been following up to ensure because of the allegations that a professional investigation occurred. When the accusations are this serious in nature, you better have ensured a fair process, that was conducted with great integrity.

I know they have to do this Title IX investigation, why not hire professional investigators that you know audio or video tape these depositions and interviews. With something as serious as Expulsion and loss of scholarship based on one sided accusations,you better have some good balanced evidence to back up the accusations you are making against a student and not just building the case based on the accusations and statements of one accuser and some faulty evidence presented by an unprofessional investigator.

What a travesty and what a complete waste of taxpayers money.

+100
 

What a hard-hitting interview. Hope Lee can hold up under the emotional toll of all this. Thankful he's willing to make such a huge sacrifice. /sarcasm
 

What a hard-hitting interview. Hope Lee can hold up under the emotional toll of all this. Thankful he's willing to make such a huge sacrifice. /sarcasm
I thought it was fine. Doogie let him talk. When Hutton talks, people listen.
What more did you want?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
 


Doogie is not Tom Brokaw, that is for sure. But he did just let Lee go on and on (interestingly, only perked up when he thought he heard a sensational claim that U staff were giving him death threats). Total dodge by Lee.

Look, Lee is a good lawyer. He tried to get his clients position out there, that's expected. I stopped listening after about a half hour, but he had not yet gotten into why he thought, as a lawyer, it was a good idea to represent all 10 of hte kids. I still don't understand the strategy of mixing all of them together, given the wide range or supposed bad actor behavior.
 

If the Antonio Shenault situation is as Mr Hutton described, oh boy.

The "lie" that he told the investigator that got his picture on TV, online and newspapers with headlines screaming SEXUAL ASSAULT was because she didn't know the difference between the "morning/night of September 2nd."

This is becoming more and more of a clown show.
W

U didn't know this? This was the case all along with him! This is why some of us were so outrage about the new 5 guys. Nothing to do with the others!
 

What a hard-hitting interview. Hope Lee can hold up under the emotional toll of all this. Thankful he's willing to make such a huge sacrifice. /sarcasm

Did you expect a hard hitting interview? LH wasn't going to be able to answer the difficult questions, he probably told Doogie beforehand things he could and could not talk about.

What specific questions do you think they failed to ask him?
 

Comparing these two people to Emmit Till to this incident may be one of the dumbest comparisons of all time.


Here's why:
Emmit Till was not accused of sexual assault, which Hutton claimed multiple times
Emmit Till never was accused of a crime, which Hutton implied
Emmit Till was never involved in a due process issue with the government or a government entity, which is what prompted Hutton to make the dumb comparison
Emmit Till was killed, these guys reputations may be tarnished...and I personally believe to the point that they will get financial compensation for this...but Till got killed.


That is a borderline offensive comparison.
 



Comparing these two people to Emmit Till to this incident may be one of the dumbest comparisons of all time.


Here's why:
Emmit Till was not accused of sexual assault, which Hutton claimed multiple times
Emmit Till never was accused of a crime, which Hutton implied
Emmit Till was never involved in a due process issue with the government or a government entity, which is what prompted Hutton to make the dumb comparison
Emmit Till was killed, these guys reputations may be tarnished...and I personally believe to the point that they will get financial compensation for this...but Till got killed.


That is a borderline offensive comparison.

I don't really like the comparison either, but Till certainly was involved in a due process issue.
 

I don't really like the comparison either, but Till certainly was involved in a due process issue.

Not with the government.

He didn't get due process from the standpoint that vigilante justice got him. There was literally no legal process for him of any kind. A redneck sheriff condoning what amounted to a lynching is not close to a legal due process issue
 

Not with the government.

He didn't get due process from the standpoint that vigilante justice got him. There was literally no legal process for him of any kind. A redneck sheriff condoning what amounted to a lynching is not close to a legal due process issue

As a victim, the Emmit Till case is a great example of a a violation of Due Process. The case is taught in law schools as examples of Due Process violations. I get it, he was a victim
 

As a victim, the Emmit Till case is a great example of a a violation of Due Process. The case is taught in law schools as examples of Due Process violations. I get it, he was a victim
If I get murdered, does that mean I was denied due process?
If yes, I stand corrected.
 



Comparing these two people to Emmit Till to this incident may be one of the dumbest comparisons of all time.


Here's why:
Emmit Till was not accused of sexual assault, which Hutton claimed multiple times
Emmit Till never was accused of a crime, which Hutton implied
Emmit Till was never involved in a due process issue with the government or a government entity, which is what prompted Hutton to make the dumb comparison
Emmit Till was killed, these guys reputations may be tarnished...and I personally believe to the point that they will get financial compensation for this...but Till got killed.


That is a borderline offensive comparison.

I agree that it was an inappropriate comparison. I was really surprised that they opened with that, and almost stopped listening when he went on and on about it. The info about the actual process was what I hoped to hear, and we did get some of that. Though, considering the source, he was speaking from his clients' perspective so you have to consider the bias there.

I also thought he went a little too far in some of the detail. He didn't need to say that the girl in the other room was on the hockey team, or that she and the guy in there had a sexual relationship. Just saying that she was a student-athlete and was in another room in the apartment would have gotten his point across.
 

I agree that it was an inappropriate comparison. I was really surprised that they opened with that, and almost stopped listening when he went on and on about it. The info about the actual process was what I hoped to hear, and we did get some of that. Though, considering the source, he was speaking from his clients' perspective so you have to consider the bias there.

I also thought he went a little too far in some of the detail. He didn't need to say that the girl in the other room was on the hockey team, or that she and the guy in there had a sexual relationship. Just saying that she was a student-athlete and was in another room in the apartment would have gotten his point across.

exactly, newsflash- he is an advocate and is paid to represent the kids. he may be a little biased. everything he said MAY be true. but of course some people disregard everything in the U report, but don't question an attorney whose job is to advocate for the players.
 

exactly, newsflash- he is an advocate and is paid to represent the kids. he may be a little biased. everything he said MAY be true. but of course some people disregard everything in the U report, but don't question an attorney whose job is to advocate for the players.

I think everyone is questioning him. Almost every reply has been "if true" etc., etc.

The problem with the situation is completely captured in your statement though. The EoAA report shouldn't read like "her side" of the story. It should read like a police report or a judicial decision. It should smell of a decision made by an impartial third party. But you're right, the EoAA report reads like her side of the story and LH is giving the accused side of the story. That is the giant problem, the EoAA is NOT the victim's attorney.
 

Anybody think the timing of this interview is a bit strange, why do it on NSD?
 

Anybody think the timing of this interview is a bit strange, why do it on NSD?

Yeah, I don't love it.

I'd guess it is directed at the casual fan who might be clicking around to find Gopher news. It also just so happens to be pretty close to when the appeal ended.
 

exactly, newsflash- he is an advocate and is paid to represent the kids. he may be a little biased. everything he said MAY be true. but of course some people disregard everything in the U report, but don't question an attorney whose job is to advocate for the players.

As I have said before...I see Hutton/EOAA the same way. Both have bias, but there is some truth to what both are saying. The answer is almost always in the middle.
 

As a victim, the Emmit Till case is a great example of a a violation of Due Process. The case is taught in law schools as examples of Due Process violations. I get it, he was a victim

He was grabbed out of a relative's house, beaten, mutilated, and murdered. And that's supposed to instruct future lawyers what a violation of due process is? Okay, but I've never been in law school and I can tell you this kid didn't get due process.
 

Comparing these two people to Emmit Till to this incident may be one of the dumbest comparisons of all time.


Here's why:
Emmit Till was not accused of sexual assault, which Hutton claimed multiple times
Emmit Till never was accused of a crime, which Hutton implied
Emmit Till was never involved in a due process issue with the government or a government entity, which is what prompted Hutton to make the dumb comparison
Emmit Till was killed, these guys reputations may be tarnished...and I personally believe to the point that they will get financial compensation for this...but Till got killed.


That is a borderline offensive comparison.

This is what you focused on from the interview? Huh.
 

As I have said before...I see Hutton/EOAA the same way. Both have bias, but there is some truth to what both are saying. The answer is almost always in the middle.

Again, as Bob has pointed out several times, The EOAA is not supposed to be the accuser's advocate, it should be a neutral fact finding third party. It wasn't, and that's a big problem. Her attorney should play the role of her advocate.
 

Anybody think the timing of this interview is a bit strange, why do it on NSD?

Not that strange. The hearings ended last week. The results were to be announced by the end of this week. Getting the interview out before the results were announced was in the best interests of both Hutton and KSTP1500.

Now maybe they should have had the hearings earlier..
 

Again, as Bob has pointed out several times, The EOAA is not supposed to be the accuser's advocate, it should be a neutral fact finding third party. It wasn't, and that's a big problem. Her attorney should play the role of her advocate.

I listened to the whole interview and there were lots of interesting nuggets and many things to get further outraged about, far to many to recap in this post.

-the woman admitted in the most recent testimony that she was not impaired as previous media reports have trumpteted

-The U of M spent a lot of money, maybe approaching six figures on outside resources to bolster the "victim's case" (so much for being an impartial finder of the truth), on the flip side, they threatened Hutton and the families, and let them know they would be watched closely and that Hutton's help would be a impermissible benefit if not fully billed out.

-The U of M forced Claeys to round up the players and convey to them that they needed to take part in these EOAA interviews. Taking part in this process was not in the best interests of these players.

-Lee Hutton strongly implied that the U let it be known that they would put transcripts on hold and make life very difficult for any player that did not play ball with K Hewitt and her Kangaroo Court.

-There was a second female witness in the apartment that night that left 10 minutes before the alleged "victim", and she saw none of the things that were promoted by the leaders of the inquisition. The EOAA investigators made almost no effort to get information from this very relevant witness

- the Emmitt Till angle, although a stretch, does raise some issues about the way these ten minority men were treated by a powerful white system, all done to protect you young Caucasian "flower".

-The ruling to make the video off limits to the panel was made by some random professor with no legal background. Lee Hutton pointed out that everything about this ruling mirrored a decision that would be made by a judge in a real court and if they are going to have a "play courtroom", they need to do things correctly.

-The players were given very short interviews, done by investigators who where only searching for bits of information to support their intended outcome. Players later made it clear that the statements in the "report" were in direct conflict with their actual testimony. When Ryan P and Hutton asked to see transcripts and see video or audio of the interview, they were told none existed. The U of M brings in heavy hitter outside testimony, provides an advocate for the victim, spends all sorts of money on this, yet they cannot create a credible transcript of the 15 minute interviews each player had.

BS investigation and Kangaroo court for sure- Stalin and Mao (or Robert Byrd and Al Gore's Father) would be proud, other than the fact that they can ruin these 10 young black men's lives forever, not just haul them behind the barn and hang them. like would have happed in the good old days when the Klan and the their favorite political party ran the South.

As I posted this is an odd mixture of racism, Academic PC run wild, and radical feminism, creating a toxic stew these poor young men are boiling in.

-
 

Again, as Bob has pointed out several times, The EOAA is not supposed to be the accuser's advocate, it should be a neutral fact finding third party. It wasn't, and that's a big problem. Her attorney should play the role of her advocate.

I listened to the whole interview and there were lots of interesting nuggets and many things to get further outraged about, far to many to recap in this post.

-the woman admitted in the most recent EOAA testimony that she was not severely impaired by alcohol as previous media reports have stressed. (many of her statements are in serious conflict)

-The U of M spent a lot of money, maybe approaching six figures on outside resources to bolster the "victim's case" (so much for being an impartial finder of the truth), on the flip side, they threatened Hutton and the families, and let them know they would be watched closely and that Hutton's help would be a impermissible benefit if not fully billed out.

-The U of M forced Claeys to round up the players and convey to them that they needed to take part in these EOAA interviews. Taking part in this process was not in the best interests of these players.

-Lee Hutton strongly implied that the U let it be known that they would put transcripts on hold and make life very difficult for any player that did not play ball with K Hewitt and her Kangaroo Court.

-There was a second female witness in the apartment that night that left 10 minutes before the alleged "victim", and she saw none of the things that were promoted by the leaders of the inquisition. The EOAA investigators made almost no effort to get information from this very relevant witness

- the Emmitt Till angle, although a stretch, does raise some issues about the way these ten minority men were treated by a powerful white system, all done to protect you young Caucasian "flower".

-The ruling to make the video off limits to the panel was made by some random professor with no legal background. Lee Hutton pointed out that everything about this ruling mirrored a decision that would be made by a judge in a real court and if they are going to have a "play courtroom", they need to do things correctly.

-The players were given very short interviews, done by investigators who where only searching for bits of information to support their intended outcome. Players later made it clear that the statements in the "report" were in direct conflict with their actual testimony. When Ryan P and Hutton asked to see transcripts and see video or audio of the interview, they were told none existed. The U of M brings in heavy hitter outside testimony, provides an advocate for the victim, spends all sorts of money on this, yet they cannot create a credible transcript of the 15 minute interviews each player had.

BS investigation and Kangaroo court for sure- Stalin and Mao (or Robert Byrd and Al Gore's Father) would be proud, other than the fact that they can ruin these 10 young black men's lives forever, not just haul them behind the barn and hang them. like would have happed in the good old days when the Klan and the their favorite political party ran the South.

As I posted this is an odd mixture of racism, Academic PC run wild, and radical feminism, creating a toxic stew these poor young men are boiling in.

-
 

I think everyone is questioning him. Almost every reply has been "if true" etc., etc.

The problem with the situation is completely captured in your statement though. The EoAA report shouldn't read like "her side" of the story. It should read like a police report or a judicial decision. It should smell of a decision made by an impartial third party. But you're right, the EoAA report reads like her side of the story and LH is giving the accused side of the story. That is the giant problem, the EoAA is NOT the victim's attorney.

I didn't say the EOAA report was her side, the most damning parts of the report are from the players themselves.
 

I didn't say the EOAA report was her side, the most damning parts of the report are from the players themselves.

From the players themselves, or the investigator's interpretation of their interviews? What we found out from the appeals hearings is the investigator seemed to leave quite a bit out of the report that would not be helpful to the accuser.
 

Yes, I do see the issue there. It is more apparent to me after hearing LH. I haven't thought for one second that this is a perfect process, and it's flaws have definitely been magnified by the media attention this has received. The process needs fixing, but I still like the concept of a school being able to take action even if it the law doesn't have enough evidence to go forward. But no doubt this process needs to be fixed. First thing that comes to mind for me is having a neutral party oversee the hearing. I'd keep the students as the "jury", but have someone outside the university act as the "judge." Second thing would be having someone who will not take a side run the investigation. They collect the info and the university or EOAA (after some, let's call it "restructuring") decides whether to go forward with punishment. Maybe that is not perfect either, but it would be better than what we have. No doubt there need to be changes in the process. Hopefully that can be the one good thing that comes from all of this.

I wish Doogie would have pushed him more on the possible settlement or other resolutions. Sounded like LH didn't think there would be a settlement of any kind, but I'm still not clear on whether or not it is possible that some of the expulsions are reduced to suspensions or suspensions reduced to probation. Not sure if the committee has the power to do that. If I'm on that committee one of the things I would struggle with is that some of the punishments seem harsh. It seems to me that some of the players did commit violations but maybe don't deserve the punishment they received.

The other aspect of the process I would change is to make it a national committee. This would remove the pressure and bias from the local community that could influence the outcome and ensure all schools had equal application of the process.
 

From the players themselves, or the investigator's interpretation of their interviews? What we found out from the appeals hearings is the investigator seemed to leave quite a bit out of the report that would not be helpful to the accuser.

Didn't know we had access to this info??
 

I didn't say the EOAA report was her side, the most damning parts of the report are from the players themselves.

Whose version of the players' statements are you referring to? The EoAA, right?

So, I guess you didn't say the EoAA report was her side of the story, but you certainly should have.
 




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