Leach And Recruiting

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dpodoll68 said:
So LaMichael James, Jacquizz Rodgers, Robert Griffin, Greg McElroy, Todd Reesing, Andy Dalton, and Jay Valai are "leftovers", huh?
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Me answering yes doesn't make you right. Again, it's just semantics. Play it however you see fit, but unfortunately it doesn't make you right.

LaMichael James, yep a leftover. The big dogs missed out.

Jacquizz Rogers, yep a leftover. Again, the big dogs missed out. And this is one I was hoping Texas would have gone after.

Robert Griffin, kind of a different variety of leftover. He wanted to play QB, a lot of schools wanted him as an athlete. Hindsight is 20/20 and I wish Texas would have recruited him as a QB.

Greg McElroy. Another leftover that I was hoping Texas would offer during the recruiting process. I was literally on Texas message boards telling anyone I could that we should offer him that year.

Todd Reesing, yep a 5'6 leftover.

Andy Dalton? Not familiar with how his recruitment played out. Same with Jay Valai.

So, are you happy now? Could you not deduce from my statement and simple facts that I'd consider these players to be leftovers? Does this post make you right? No. Does it make you a sniveling dolt that's trying to discredit my opinion with semantics? Yes.
 

[censored] said:
Me answering yes doesn't make you right. Again, it's just semantics. Play it however you see fit, but unfortunately it doesn't make you right.

LaMichael James, yep a leftover. The big dogs missed out.

Jacquizz Rogers, yep a leftover. Again, the big dogs missed out. And this is one I was hoping Texas would have gone after.

Robert Griffin, kind of a different variety of leftover. He wanted to play QB, a lot of schools wanted him as an athlete. Hindsight is 20/20 and I wish Texas would have recruited him as a QB.

Greg McElroy. Another leftover that I was hoping Texas would offer during the recruiting process. I was literally on Texas message boards telling anyone I could that we should offer him that year.

Todd Reesing, yep a 5'6 leftover.

Andy Dalton? Not familiar with how his recruitment played out. Same with Jay Valai.

So, are you happy now? Could you not deduce from my statement and simple facts that I'd consider these players to be leftovers? Does this post make you right? No. Does it make you a sniveling dolt that's trying to discredit my opinion with semantics? Yes.
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Again, I'd really love a QB "leftover" to lead my team to a national title.

Further, I'd enjoy a RB "leftover" being a strong Heisman candidate and leading my #2 ranked team on a national title run.

A team could do pretty well with those sorts of "leftovers".
 

Geez, I love it when a thread devolves into a few guys arguing back and forth. Anybody remember the original topic?
 




Oooooooops.....

2003
Michael Brisco - Texas A&M
Chad Johnson - Oklahoma
Phillip Daugherty - Oklahoma St.

2004
Darcel McBath - Texas A&M, Oklahoma St.
Josh Aleman - Texas A&M, Oklahoma St.
Cody Baker - Oklahoma St.

2005
Louis Vasquez - Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma St.
McKinner Dixon - Texas
Todd Walker - Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma
Pete Richardson - Texas A&M, Oklahoma St.
Chris Todd - Oklahoma
Brent Nickerson - Oklahoma St.
LaShawn Vation - Oklahoma St.
Marlon Winn - Oklahoma St.

2006
Daniel Johnson - Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St.
Leonard Hewitt - Texas A&M, Oklahoma St.
Michael Crabtree - Texas A&M, Oklahoma
Blake Collier - Texas A&M
Ra'Jon Henley - Oklahoma, Oklahoma St.
Dan'Tay Ward - Oklahoma St.
Laron Moore - Oklahoma St.
Marlon Williams - Oklahoma St.
Franklin Mitchem - Oklahoma St.
Adrian Reese - Oklahoma St.
Dimitri Lott - Oklahoma St.
Chris Olson - Oklahoma St.
Broderick Marshall - Oklahoma St.

2007
Jerrod Gooch - Texas
Mickey Okafor - Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St.
Jacob Amie - Texas A&M, Oklahoma St.
Tramain Swindall - Texas A&M
Tyrone Sonier - Texas A&M
Sam Fehoko - Oklahoma
Detron Lewis - Oklahoma St.
Lonnie Edwards - Oklahoma St.
Blake Emert - Oklahoma St.

2008
Harrison Jeffers - Oklahoma St.
Deveric Gallington - Oklahoma St.
Terry McDaniel - Oklahoma St.
Cody Davis - Oklahoma St.
Ryan Haliburton - Oklahoma St.
Joey Fowler - Oklahoma St.

2009
Brandon Mahoney - Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St.
Joel Gray - Oklahoma
Jacob Karam - Oklahoma
Will Ford - Oklahoma
Eric Ward - Oklahoma
Pearlie Graves - Oklahoma St.
Terrance Bullitt - Oklahoma St.

With Texas Tech, under Mike Leach, no less than 49 players signed that also had an offer from one or more of the 4 Sacred Cows. (This even includes 5 (!!!) from the Mighty Schlonghorns!)

"Hmm, let me think...what other degrading term can I dream up to posit my absurd notion that Mike Leach was leading a bunch of players no one else wanted during his tenure at Texas Tech...."
 

The only one of the four you mentioned having a "schlonghorn" offer was Gooch, and that was an offer for a grayshirt. BTW, did you come up with that cool name? Schlonghorn? God damn, son. You are hilarious! :rolleyes:

And of the rest, only 12 of 49 had offers from OU (but even that may not be accurate since the list of kids with Texas offers sure as hell wasn't).

I'd hope to God Tech was offering some of the same players that Oklahoma State and A&M offered.

But still, none of what you just posted shows the Leach really went head-to-head with the big dogs in regards to recruiting. An offer doesn't mean he pursued a recruit relentlessly.

Mike Leach isn't into recruiting. He's into throwing the ball 70+ times a game. He's into pirates. He's into booze. He's into badmouthing football players' fat little girlfriends. He however is NOT keen on recruiting battles.
 

Point?

I think the point is that Leach has proven he can get the job done over a number of years.

He is a smart guy. He can deflect one incident in a career....even if it was true, which is open to interpretation.

How many candidates are there who have proven they can win 8 games a year in a major conference every year for several years? Most all the other candidates are Brewster like....they might be good. They may have had success one or two years. They may have never been a head coach. Hire a coordinator and now he is the head coach. Now he hires a coordinator who may not have ever been one and you got two or more guys doing a job they have never done.

We are not an MIAC school.
 

[censored] said:
The only one of the four you mentioned having a "schlonghorn" offer was Gooch, and that was an offer for a grayshirt.
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Do you work in the Texas football offices?

You must, since you know with absolute certainty what players "actually" received Texas offers. The others must all be lying, huh? Are you sure your name isn't Plinnius?

[censored] said:
And of the rest, only 12 of 49 had offers from OU (but even that may not be accurate since the list of kids with Texas offers sure as hell wasn't).
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Spin, spin, spin. You work in PR too, in addition to your job with Texas football?

[censored] said:
I'd hope to God Tech was offering some of the same players that Oklahoma State and A&M offered.
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Wow, even more spin. Your quote was:

if you are from Texas and you don't get offers from Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Texas A&M... you are most certainly a "leftover"
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So now do you want to drop Okie St. and A&M from this magical list you made up? Gotta keep shifting the argument to suit your agenda, after all.

[censored] said:
But still, none of what you just posted shows the Leach really went head-to-head with the big dogs in regards to recruiting. An offer doesn't mean he pursued a recruit relentlessly.
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You listen to Flo Rida? Cuz "You Spin My Head Right Round".

[censored] said:
He however is NOT keen on recruiting battles.
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Wow - it's amazing, then, that he beat the 4 Sacred Cows at least 49 times without even trying. Imagine how good he'd be at it if he gave a sh*t?
 



dpodoll68 said:
Do you work in the Texas football offices?

You must, since you know with absolute certainty what players "actually" received Texas offers. The others must all be lying, huh? Are you sure your name isn't Plinnius?



Spin, spin, spin. You work in PR too, in addition to your job with Texas football?



Wow, even more spin. Your quote was:



So now do you want to drop Okie St. and A&M from this magical list you made up? Gotta keep shifting the argument to suit your agenda, after all.



You listen to Flo Rida? Cuz "You Spin My Head Right Round".



Wow - it's amazing, then, that he beat the 4 Sacred Cows at least 49 times without even trying. Imagine how good he'd be at it if he gave a sh*t?
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Go do something productive.
 


dpodoll68 said:
Do you work in the Texas football offices?

You must, since you know with absolute certainty what players "actually" received Texas offers. The others must all be lying, huh? Are you sure your name isn't Plinnius?
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No, I don't. But it's not that hard to find out who actually recieved offers and who changed commitments because they were asked to grayshirt. Now, I wouldn't expect you to know any of this information because you are just a dolt up in the cold, but I digress. And yeah, some kids lie about having an offer from Texas because they think it attracts other schools and makes them look better.


dpodoll68 said:
Wow - it's amazing, then, that he beat the 4 Sacred Cows at least 49 times without even trying. Imagine how good he'd be at it if he gave a sh*t?
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Hah. You can't even post without lying and making stuff up. So now all 49 of them committed after receiving offers from the "4 Sacred Cows"?

You call it spin if you want. Again, semantics.

All I'm doing is trying to let you know that Leach doesn't put nearly as much emphasis on recruiting as other coaches do. Why? Because he believes in his system more than anything else.

I'm done educating.
 




I once told a hammered buddy (real hammered) that maybe he should drink some water.

His response, "You sayin you wanna f*ckin fight right now?"

I just kept wondering if it was induction or deduction that led him to that conclusion.
 

Duluthguy said:
Geez, I love it when a thread devolves into a few guys arguing back and forth. Anybody remember the original topic?
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Yeah. My opinion is that the James incident may harm recruiting somewhat, but I think that's something Leach can overcome with the passage of time, and obviously he's got to keep his nose completely clean regarding his treatment of players, IE no more putting them in the storage shed. :)

But so far as I know, the James incident was the only documented incident of 'player abuse' (and I use that term very guardedly) under Leach's watch. And it's such a 'he said- she said' thing, I mean who knows what the heck really happened. What seems to be unanimous though is that Adam James was viewed by nearly everyone as being extremely spoiled and with a big, big sense of entitlement for which he'd done nothing to deserve beyond being the son of Craig James. In other words he was a real pain in the ass, one of those kids who's always grumbling and complaining in the locker room about lack of touches or whatever the heck his gripe was. So there is definitely two sides to that particular story.

So honestly, I don't feel like it will be that big of a deal when it comes to future recruiting for Leach. He already offers a lot to attract recruits and their parental units, namely the fact that he's an excellent football coach and a true winner, he runs one of the most exciting and fun offensive systems in all of football (and players love to have fun like that), he graduates his kids and sends a significant number of them off to the NFL. So those are some very heavy positives right there in his favor.

That's my take anyway, but as you stated, there's no way of knowing for sure unless or until he's hired somewhere and actually gets out there again and hits the recruiting trail. That's the only way of knowing.
 

[censored] said:
it's not that hard to find out who actually recieved offers and who changed commitments because they were asked to grayshirt.
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Prove it. Cite this magical treasure trove of information.

[censored] said:
And yeah, some kids lie about having an offer from Texas because they think it attracts other schools and makes them look better.
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Let's continue with this little fantasy of yours. Let's suppose that all the Texas offers listed by Rivals are totally made up. That still leaves 48 recruited by one or more of the other 3 Sacred Cows. But I suppose they all made up all those offers too, huh?

[censored] said:
Hah. You can't even post without lying and making stuff up.
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Nope. Didn't make up anything. It's all easily researchable on Rivals.com. I posted the research exactly as it was presented to me.

[censored] said:
So now all 49 of them committed after receiving offers from the "4 Sacred Cows"?
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Please show me where I said that. While you're at it, please tell me what that has to do with anything.

[censored] said:
All I'm doing is trying to let you know that Leach doesn't put nearly as much emphasis on recruiting as other coaches do.
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What the hell does that have to do with anything? I haven't brought this up at all. I don't know/care/want to know how much "emphasis" Leach puts on recruiting. All I care about, for the purposes of this discussion, are his results. So, congratulations, I guess, for winning a debate that you're having with yourself.

The actual point of debate (not the one you just made up in your head) is:

"Mike Leach coached a bunch of recruits that nobody else wanted during his tenure at Texas Tech."

If you say that is true, you are absolutely, unequivocally, 100% W-R-O-N-G. Period.

[censored] said:
I'm done educating.
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Honest question. Do you think you're better than Gophers fans because of the team you choose to root for? It sure seems like you think your opinion (yes, opinion) on anything related to the state of Texas is infallible. I'd love to hear your thoughts on how you're better than us because your team has been more successful over the last few decades.
 

dpodoll68 said:
This is just not true.

http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/showpost.php?p=289715&postcount=15
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The relevant comparison isn't to whom he was beating for recruits on a per recruit basis but rather where his classes ranked compared to teams he was beating on the field.

Class rank within Big 12

2009: 6 of 12
2008: 10 of 12
2007: 10 of 12
2006: 5 of 12
2005: 6 of 12
2004: 7 of 12
2003: 9 of 12
2002: 10 of 12

By the end of his time there he was going toe to toe with Texas and OU and he was doing it with recruiting classes that rarely, and when they did just barely, ranked in the top half of the Big 12. That should be illustrative of him winning with inferior talent. I don't think anybody will disagree with you if you say Minnesota can reasonably expect to have classes that range from 5 to 10 within the Big Ten. Leach has shown what he can do with that type of talent.
 

grunkiejr said:
The relevant comparison isn't to whom he was beating for recruits on a per recruit basis but rather where his classes ranked compared to teams he was beating on the field.

Class rank within Big 12

2009: 6 of 12
2008: 10 of 12
2007: 10 of 12
2006: 5 of 12
2005: 6 of 12
2004: 7 of 12
2003: 9 of 12
2002: 10 of 12

By the end of his time there he was going toe to toe with Texas and OU and he was doing it with recruiting classes that rarely, and when they did just barely, ranked in the top half of the Big 12. That should be illustrative of him winning with inferior talent. I don't think anybody will disagree with you if you say Minnesota can reasonably expect to have classes that range from 5 to 10 within the Big Ten. Leach has shown what he can do with that type of talent.
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I agree that the results definitely outperformed the perceived talent. It's pretty much a given that you're doing so if you're in the Big 12 and you're consistently competitive with UT and OU.

The problem that I have is stating that Leach played with recruits nobody wanted, which by definition implies that TT was finishing 11th or 12th every year. As you've shown above, that wasn't the case.

I don't doubt that he could maintain similar overall recruiting rankings here. The issue is that he will need to establish a new and different base from what he's used to, because you're not going to beat OU and A&M very often as the Minnesota HC.
 

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