Larry Fitzgerald: Tracy Claeys: Gopher scapegoat

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DMB123 said:
Claeys is not a scapegoat. He flat out lied to his players about him not having anything to do with the suspensions, then lied to the public about it as well. We finally have a president and AD who bypassed the search committee and went out and got their first choice for head coach while paying huge amounts of money that this school has never been willing to pay before. Kaler and Coyle are both the kinds of administrators people on this board have been begging to come here for years, administrators who care about winning in football and basketball and are willing to pay like the Michigans and Ohio States of the world. Now that we have them and this dream is becoming reality, we're complaining because Claeys got his damn feelings hurt? We hired Jerry Kill 6 years ago, not Tracey Claeys. Coyle didn't fire Claeys, you don't fire an interim coach (which is really what Claeys was). Coyle simply decided not to hire Claeys for this job, which was the right decision as Claeys has no business being a head coach in the Big Ten.

We need Kaler and especially Coyle to stick around a long time.
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So in your opinion, Claeys winning is not enough to cover for his lies, he should be fired (disagree with the analysis, but sadly not the outcome)

However......

Kaler and Coyle, who failed to do their jobs completely, and lied, repeatedly on Multiple subjects and Kaler has systematically not supported athletics, they get a pass and should stay around a long time because they hired Fleck?

Maybe we should go Elite and hire a president and athletic director who both do their jobs across the board, have INTEGRITY (which neither man has displayed in this mess) AND support athletics all the time, not only when they want to create a distraction to attempt to save their own butts.

That is a foundation worth demanding and building on and will give Fleck a much better chance at success and being here in 5 years.

Sounds like a win, win, win for me.




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Lordshawesome said:
Why does he get to talk about Gopher football. He HAD his chance to care about Gopher football, but chose to go to Pitt. So he should keep his opinions about the hometown school he turned his back on, to himself.

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This is that player's Father, who has been a sportswriter for a long time.
 

lmh839 said:
The truth is that Penn State loss killed any chance of momentum for the football program heading into the Iowa game. The Gophers were 3-0 heading into Big Ten play and should have won at Penn State, however, they lost in OT killing any momentum. If you win at Penn State and come into the Iowa game at 4-0, that stadium is filled with many more people. That was a very disappointing crowd given it was the biggest home game of the year and played in early October with good weather. Claeys never had that "wow factor" as the face of the program and that is a big part of being a head coach at a Power 5 school. You are a marketing guy as much as you are a head coach. And let's be honest, if any other team at or above Minnesota's level would have had that same schedule, they would have won at least 10 games.
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There are many, many HC at P5 schools without the Wow factor. Probably more than those who have Wow factor.
 

Calm Down said:
Dude, in his first season we improved our win total by 4 we nearly beat Penn State @ Penn State (you know they did win the Big Ten), lost to Nebraska @ Nebraska by 7, Iowa by 7 and were leading at half against Wisconsin. During the season we were breaking in a new Offensive Coordinator and Line coach and had key suspensions in our secondary. How is this considered the ceiling? Am I thrilled we lost the games we did, no? But it is tough to argue that we were not trending up after last season with Claeys.
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Completely agree. Funny how the hire PJ supporters are rethinking expectations for 2017 now that he's here. Same group trashed Mitch and now say that QB is a huge whole to fill. Nonsensical.

There is ample talent on this team, and no reason why Fleck shouldn't be able to step in and continue the success right away. To me that's an expectation to win 8 in the regular season in 2017 and up from there. IMHO, he has a real shot at running the table in 2019.
 


STPGopher said:
Dad, not son. Larry Fitzgerald Jr. has actually had football camps at Minnesota. It is my humble opinion that Junior wanted to play at Minnesota at some point. I think dad(the author) was a big reason the son didn't go to the U of M. IIRC Senior was not happy with how Clem Haskins was treated.
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Larry Fitzgerald Sr is close friends with McKinley Boston and felt he got a raw deal in the Luther Darville affair! I suspect in some ways he sees this as a repeat.
 

nsmike said:
Larry Fitzgerald Sr is close friends with McKinley Boston and felt he got a raw deal in the Luther Darville affair! I suspect in some ways he sees this as a repeat.
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So nothing's changed? Who knew?


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nsmike said:
Larry Fitzgerald Sr is close friends with McKinley Boston and felt he got a raw deal in the Luther Darville affair! I suspect in some ways he sees this as a repeat.
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McKinley Boston was part of the whole Clem Haskin's situation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKinley_Boston

"Boston was named the AD at the University of Minnesota in 1991 and in 1995 he became vice president for student development and athletics at Minnesota. He left the University of Minnesota in 1999, along with then-men's athletic director Mark Dienhart, in connection with the release by the University of a report on an academic cheating scandal involving the men's basketball program.[2]"

This may be partly why some are saying Coyle and Kaler should go. That is if the basketball scandal sets any precedent that is applicable here. I would say not, but...

Side question. I've heard the plaintiff was from Wisconsin. If so isn't it odd that all three cases would involve a woman from Wisconsin?
 

PMWinSTP said:
There are many, many HC at P5 schools without the Wow factor. Probably more than those who have Wow factor.
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The only "wow" factor that has ANY staying power in coaching is winning.

There are a lot of goofy things people keep talking about like "face of the program", "wow factor", or whatever sort of intangible catch phrases people want to say. . . the only thing that matters is winning. There are incredibly successful boring coaches and incredibly successful energetic coaches. It's a red herring.

Winning is the only way to sustain excitement in a football program.
 



Gold Vision said:
Claeys is just as much to blame for this whole fiasco blowing up as the other two people in leadership. At least Kaler and Coyle made a tough, lose-lose decision and stuck by it with conviction. The University would have been absolutely crucified publicly and legally if they had gone against the recommendation of the EOAA. People act like Claeys stuck his neck out for his players, but he was basically silent on the suspensions outside of one tweet! Your head football coach is the face and voice of your program, whether he was leaning one way or the other, he should have been out in front of it and made himself available for questions to the media. I may be mistaken, but I don't think he every issued an official statement. He lost control of his team and his threw his boss into the fire over a difficult decision that they were put into.

Maybe he is a scapegoat, but Claeys is not the martyr some of you are making him out to be. He showed zero leadership in a very dark time for the program.
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Couldnt have said it any better.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
LOL. Ha. Engage in consensual group sex with them? That sounds more like your family messed up on that one.
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Consensual means having given "consent" and you need a clear mind in order to give consent. So someone who is passed out or drunk is not able to legally give consent.
 

STPGopher said:
McKinley Boston was part of the whole Clem Haskin's situation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKinley_Boston

"Boston was named the AD at the University of Minnesota in 1991 and in 1995 he became vice president for student development and athletics at Minnesota. He left the University of Minnesota in 1999, along with then-men's athletic director Mark Dienhart, in connection with the release by the University of a report on an academic cheating scandal involving the men's basketball program.[2]"

This may be partly why some are saying Coyle and Kaler should go. That is if the basketball scandal sets any precedent that is applicable here. I would say not, but...

Side question. I've heard the plaintiff was from Wisconsin. If so isn't it odd that all three cases would involve a woman from Wisconsin?
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Boston and Diehart had their flaws, but neither one was an amoral, ends justify the means, thin skinned, person who lacked integrity, so in that way, I'd agree with you, no link.


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Halsey Hall said:
Consensual means having given "consent" and you need a clear mind in order to give consent. So someone who is passed out or drunk is not able to legally give consent.
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A person can give consent while intoxicated.
 



PMWinSTP said:
Completely agree. Funny how the hire PJ supporters are rethinking expectations for 2017 now that he's here. Same group trashed Mitch and now say that QB is a huge whole to fill. Nonsensical.

There is ample talent on this team, and no reason why Fleck shouldn't be able to step in and continue the success right away. To me that's an expectation to win 8 in the regular season in 2017 and up from there. IMHO, he has a real shot at running the table in 2019.
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Um, did you see Demry Croft try to throw the ball when he played? Oof. Currently he is the ONLY QB on the roster that will be available next year if the EOAA's recommendations are upheld (expect that to change as of signing day of course, but until they sign...). No matter how bad Mitch was at times, that level of bad can still be way better than what they have now. And if they have one injury at QB they are going to be in a world of hurt.
 

Lakeville Goldy said:
Um, did you see Demry Croft try to throw the ball when he played? Oof. Currently he is the ONLY QB on the roster that will be available next year if the EOAA's recommendations are upheld (expect that to change as of signing day of course, but until they sign...). No matter how bad Mitch was at times, that level of bad can still be way better than what they have now. And if they have one injury at QB they are going to be in a world of hurt.
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There is a weird thing where for all of the late game Mitch mishaps.... you have to be doing well enough to get late in the game and close enough to have a mishap and lose.

Mitch might have been not that great, but yeah worse is very doable.
 

Halsey Hall said:
Consensual means having given "consent" and you need a clear mind in order to give consent. So someone who is passed out or drunk is not able to legally give consent.
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The report lists alcohol, but it says their opinion is she wasn't drunk/ impaired.
 

Tlsbhansen said:
Can we just drop this Row the Boat schtick and stick with Ski U Mah already?!? What are we going to do in three years if Fleck moves on to a better job? This mini-hero worship is a bit over the top.
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Also over the top is the what are we going to do if Fleck leaves in three years. Probably should drop that schtick too.
 

caliGopher said:
Boston and Diehart had their flaws, but neither one was an amoral, ends justify the means, thin skinned, person who lacked integrity, so in that way, I'd agree with you, no link.


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To clarify, the link was provided to show Dr. Boston wasn't AD during Luther Darvilles time. Darville was Lou Holtz(Giel was AD?).
 

DMB123 said:
Claeys is not a scapegoat. He flat out lied to his players about him not having anything to do with the suspensions, then lied to the public about it as well. We finally have a president and AD who bypassed the search committee and went out and got their first choice for head coach while paying huge amounts of money that this school has never been willing to pay before. Kaler and Coyle are both the kinds of administrators people on this board have been begging to come here for years, administrators who care about winning in football and basketball and are willing to pay like the Michigans and Ohio States of the world. Now that we have them and this dream is becoming reality, we're complaining because Claeys got his damn feelings hurt? We hired Jerry Kill 6 years ago, not Tracey Claeys. Coyle didn't fire Claeys, you don't fire an interim coach (which is really what Claeys was). Coyle simply decided not to hire Claeys for this job, which was the right decision as Claeys has no business being a head coach in the Big Ten.

We need Kaler and especially Coyle to stick around a long time.
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Unless you were there in the room, you cannot call anyone a liar. Not even Tracy Claeys will argue with being dismissed, he understand the way things can go in coaching. Instead of being professionals and saying the University wanted a different direction with football, Kaler and Coyle went on about culture and discipline and eluded to Claeys being responsible for the acts of a few students. They encouraged public sentiment that the fired coach somehow supports a culture of abuse. As far as the hire, it was easy and not really courageous. PJF is a hot prospect coach according to the experts and we paid the piper to get him. What remains to be seen now that the epic hire has been made, will the ineptitude continue in regards to the football program? What is Flecks contract? 6 years? Kaler will likely be gone before that and Coyle will possibly be here, depends on winning.
 

DMB123 said:
Claeys is not a scapegoat. He flat out lied to his players about him not having anything to do with the suspensions, then lied to the public about it as well. We finally have a president and AD who bypassed the search committee and went out and got their first choice for head coach while paying huge amounts of money that this school has never been willing to pay before. Kaler and Coyle are both the kinds of administrators people on this board have been begging to come here for years, administrators who care about winning in football and basketball and are willing to pay like the Michigans and Ohio States of the world. Now that we have them and this dream is becoming reality, we're complaining because Claeys got his damn feelings hurt? We hired Jerry Kill 6 years ago, not Tracey Claeys. Coyle didn't fire Claeys, you don't fire an interim coach (which is really what Claeys was). Coyle simply decided not to hire Claeys for this job, which was the right decision as Claeys has no business being a head coach in the Big Ten.

We need Kaler and especially Coyle to stick around a long time.
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Claeys without reading or having any knowledge of the EEOA investigation or report decides that suspensions and expulsions are appropriate. My guess is you are being very disengenuous in your statements, Cleays may not be the prototype B1G coach but he was successful. Like Claeys said if you don't want him as the coach fine, but don't come up with that bull crap about why you are firing him. The level of transparency at the AD and President level at the U is appalling.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
The only "wow" factor that has ANY staying power in coaching is winning.

There are a lot of goofy things people keep talking about like "face of the program", "wow factor", or whatever sort of intangible catch phrases people want to say. . . the only thing that matters is winning. There are incredibly successful boring coaches and incredibly successful energetic coaches. It's a red herring.

Winning is the only way to sustain excitement in a football program.
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Solid. Les Miles...without winning he's got no Wow. Win PJ, just win. Plenty of talent and resources already established for this team of players for Gophs. Continue and build on the recent success. Period.
 

Lakeville Goldy said:
Um, did you see Demry Croft try to throw the ball when he played? Oof. Currently he is the ONLY QB on the roster that will be available next year if the EOAA's recommendations are upheld (expect that to change as of signing day of course, but until they sign...). No matter how bad Mitch was at times, that level of bad can still be way better than what they have now. And if they have one injury at QB they are going to be in a world of hurt.
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Conor Rhoda. How'd ML do in that same game? I was there, were you?
 

Scapegoat. Fainting goat. Jamnapari goat. Blah, blah, blah...
 

Lakeville Goldy said:
Um, did you see Demry Croft try to throw the ball when he played? Oof. Currently he is the ONLY QB on the roster that will be available next year if the EOAA's recommendations are upheld (expect that to change as of signing day of course, but until they sign...). No matter how bad Mitch was at times, that level of bad can still be way better than what they have now. And if they have one injury at QB they are going to be in a world of hurt.
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Conor Rhoda will be available as well.
 


Lakeville Goldy said:
Um, did you see Demry Croft try to throw the ball when he played? Oof. Currently he is the ONLY QB on the roster that will be available next year if the EOAA's recommendations are upheld (expect that to change as of signing day of course, but until they sign...). No matter how bad Mitch was at times, that level of bad can still be way better than what they have now. And if they have one injury at QB they are going to be in a world of hurt.
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Just to help you out...

ML was 10-21 for 72 yards and an INT. Had 5 rushes for 1 yard. Based on how the offense was playing that day, there was no way it was going to be a successful situation for Croft.

There's no doubt in my mind that Rhoda and Croft are better passers than Mitch but he was better suited for that offense because of his ability to run. He had a worse season in almost every statistic compared to 2015, but they won 3 more games.

This article has been posted in other threads but it is good explanation of Fleck's offense and QB expectation. I think it suits either Rhoda or Croft better. PJ got Rhoda to stay for a reason...

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/11/19/13577022/pj-fleck-coach-western-michigan-wmu
 

PMWinSTP said:
Just to help you out...

ML was 10-21 for 72 yards and an INT. Had 5 rushes for 1 yard. Based on how the offense was playing that day, there was no way it was going to be a successful situation for Croft.

There's no doubt in my mind that Rhoda and Croft are better passers than Mitch but he was better suited for that offense because of his ability to run. He had a worse season in almost every statistic compared to 2015, but they won 3 more games.

This article has been posted in other threads but it is good explanation of Fleck's offense and QB expectation. I think it suits either Rhoda or Croft better. PJ got Rhoda to stay for a reason...

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/11/19/13577022/pj-fleck-coach-western-michigan-wmu
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Except PJ's choice doesn't have anything to do with Mitch... more so because we don't have any QBs.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Except PJ's choice doesn't have anything to do with Mitch... more so because we don't have any QBs.
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You'll have to explain what you mean here...

Pretty sure Fleck wouldn't have talked him into coming back if he didn't see an immediate fit. IA, IL, and NEB will all have new starting QBs as well in the West.
 

PMWinSTP said:
You'll have to explain what you mean here...

Pretty sure Fleck wouldn't have talked him into coming back if he didn't see an immediate fit. IA, IL, and NEB will all have new starting QBs as well in the West.
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The definition of "immediate fit" probabbly changes dramatically when you are woefully short on QBs.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
The definition of "immediate fit" probabbly changes dramatically when you are woefully short on QBs.
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Interesting take...don't think he'd make the effort if that was the case. Rhoda was already gone.
 

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