La Velle Neal: P.J. Fleck should thank Tanner Morgan ... then switch to Athan Kaliakmanis as Gophers QB

[RememberMurray]

Bringing him in to hand it off literally wouldn’t impact his development negatively or positively

If you think having him play one garbage series here would impact his development you’re dreaming

Yes.

He got real, valuable experience when he played the entire game against Penn State last week.

He'll play plenty next year.

He'll get his shot.

 

[Gophers_4life]

A little late to the party and haven’t read through the comments but I think it’s easy to say this from the outside. It’s not a rebuild, there are a lot of veterans on the team. If they feel Morgan gives them the best chance to win, he’s gotta be the guy. Otherwise it sends the message that when things don’t go our way, we’re going to give up on winning this season in favor of future success.

Tanner is a 6th year senior. AK is the future, it's just a matter of him getting more game reps.

All that said ... for now, you're correct. Tanner was the right choice, because it's "technically" not over.

It's still possible that we can win out and that Illinois can drop 3 of their last 4, letting us win the West.


When/if winning the West becomes mathematical impossible, then I think the switch should be made regardless.

Tanner hasn't "earned the right to keep playing". Disagree -- because he got an extra, free covid year which is this year. He should have already graduated, by all rights, in normal times.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Bringing him in to hand it off literally wouldn’t impact his development negatively or positively

If you think having him play one garbage series here would impact his development you’re dreaming

Q - How do you get to Carnegie Hall?

A - Practice.

 

[RememberMurray]

It's still possible that we can win out and that Illinois can drop 3 of their last 4, letting us win the West.


When/if winning the West becomes mathematical impossible, then I think the switch should be made regardless.

Winning the west is highly unlikely, but there are other goals worth pursuing in addition to going to Indy.

— Winning out to finish 9-3 and go to a good bowl.

— Beating both Iowa and Wisconsin in the same year.

There's no way to prove it, but I'd bet that if you had presented Gopher Holers (before the season) with a 9-3 regular season, including wins over the Hawkeyes and Badgers and a good bowl trip, most posters here would have called that a pretty good year.

 

[RememberMurray]

Q - How do you get to Carnegie Hall?

A - Practice.

Practicing handoffs in a blowout?

 

[Gophers_4life]

Winning the west is highly unlikely, but there are other goals worth pursuing in addition to going to Indy.

— Winning out to finish 9-3 and go to a good bowl.

— Beating both Iowa and Wisconsin in the same year.

There's no way to prove it, but I'd bet that if you had presented Gopher Holers (before the season) with a 9-3 regular season, including wins over the Hawkeyes and Badgers and a good bowl trip, most posters here would have called that a pretty good year.

All true, valid points.

Next year may be a culmination of things that make it a harsh rebuilding year, no matter what. Brutal schedule, new QB, losing I believe entire interior OL, losing Mo, etc.

 

[cjbfbp]

Q - How do you get to Carnegie Hall?

A - Practice.

That's also the answer in a funny scene from the Winston Churchill movie, The Darkest Hour.

The King has significant reservations about incoming Prime Minister Churchill (he liked Chamberlain). During their first weekly lunch, the King asks Churchill (with a sense of irritation): How does one drink an entire bottle of champagne for lunch? Churchill replies: "Practice!"

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Not a sniff of the field. Up 24-0 with 7 minutes left, I guess Morgan needed more work.

Same nonsense as how Brew handled the Weber - Gray scenario. Adam played every frickin down and Q sat and watched, instead of getting used to the speed of a live game, running a huddle in a live game and building confidence by participating in a live game. Yes, there is one keyword that tells the tale, Morgan doesn’t need the extra work in that situation, but Athan does. You learn by doing.

For those who doubt read Malcom Gladwell’a exquisite book on the subject, Outliers. While his theorem has been questioned, i have seen improvement in my life in various pursuits, generally the longer they have been pursued.

Fleck not going this is akin to a CBB coach not understanding using the shot clock for a 2 for 1

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

That's also the answer in a funny scene from the Winston Churchill movie, The Darkest Hour.

The King has significant reservations about incoming Prime Minister Churchill (he liked Chamberlain). During their first weekly lunch, the King asks Churchill (with a sense of irritation): How does one drink an entire bottle of champagne for lunch? Churchill replies: "Practice!"

Awesome flick

 

[RememberMurray]

Same nonsense as how Brew handled the Weber - Gray scenario. Adam played every frickin down and Q sat and watched, instead of getting used to the speed of a live game, running a huddle in a live game and building confidence by participating in a live game. Yes, there is one keyword that tells the tale, Morgan doesn’t need the extra work in that situation, but Athan does. You learn by doing.

For those who doubt read Malcom Gladwell’a exquisite book on the subject, Outliers. While his theorem has been questioned, i have seen improvement in my life in various pursuits, generally the longer they have been pursued.

Fleck not going this is akin to a CBB coach not understanding using the shot clock for a 2 for 1

Athan will get his shot... I promise.

 

[WAGopher]

Same nonsense as how Brew handled the Weber - Gray scenario. Adam played every frickin down and Q sat and watched, instead of getting used to the speed of a live game, running a huddle in a live game and building confidence by participating in a live game. Yes, there is one keyword that tells the tale, Morgan doesn’t need the extra work in that situation, but Athan does. You learn by doing.

For those who doubt read Malcom Gladwell’a exquisite book on the subject, Outliers. While his theorem has been questioned, i have seen improvement in my life in various pursuits, generally the longer they have been pursued.

Fleck not going this is akin to a CBB coach not understanding using the shot clock for a 2 for 1

They were ending a three game losing streak and letting the starters play the entire game was the right thing to do. It was a great confidence builder on both sides of the ball and let the starters get more live reps to help their game.

At the beginning of the year, Fleck had the reserves play many meaningful minutes. But now he was trying to right the boat and the reserves were never going to play in this game, except for an injury situation.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

They were ending a three game losing streak and letting the starters play the entire game was the right thing to do. It was a great confidence builder on both sides of the ball and let the starters get more live reps to help their game.

At the beginning of the year, Fleck had the reserves play many meaningful minutes. But now he was trying to right the boat and the reserves were never going to play in this game, except for an injury situation.

Then why didn’t he play him ahead 24- with 7 minutes left then?

I also wouldn’t have given Kramer any meaningful spans and let Athan have those snaps.

You wanna be at top dog you can’t be 2 sentimental IMO.

 

[RememberMurray]

Then why didn’t he play him ahead 24- with 7 minutes left then?

J also wouldn’t have givenCosmo any meaningful spans and let Athangave those.

You wanna be at top you can’t be 2 sentimental IMO.

To be on top, you play the QB who gives you the best chance to win.

Apparently, Fleck believes that Morgan is that QB right now. I agree with Fleck.

 

[hello-world]

Same nonsense as how Brew handled the Weber - Gray scenario. Adam played every frickin down and Q sat and watched, instead of getting used to the speed of a live game, running a huddle in a live game and building confidence by participating in a live game. Yes, there is one keyword that tells the tale, Morgan doesn’t need the extra work in that situation, but Athan does. You learn by doing.

Maybe if the Strib didn't start calling for Tanner's head every time the Gophers lose a game, it would be easier to play the backup without creating a QB controversary.

 

[kg21]

Maybe if the Strib didn't start calling for Tanner's head every time the Gophers lose a game, it would be easier to play the backup without creating a QB controversary.

They are talking about playing for the future since the west is gone.

Why is this so frigging hard?

 

[hello-world]

They are talking about playing for the future since the west is gone.

Why is this so frigging hard?

Because if winning the west is the only goal the Gophers have then they might as well pack it up after this year. Every W, every point scored, and every good defensive performance help recruiting, ticket sales, and national perception.

No point in playing the young guy until they have to. Athan comes in a throws a stupid pick and the Gophers don't have their first B1G shutout since 2004. Receivers might not have been getting open last week, but Athan couldn't place a ball to save his life. They can work on that in practice.

As it is, the Gophers just blanked a B1G team in front of a bunch of recruits.

Moreover, the people calling for Fleck to play Athan, like the moron that wrote this article, are the same people that would be calling for Fleck to be fired if they missed a bowl game this year because they decided to break in a Freshman QB a year before they had to.

Next year is going to be ugly. This year is about winning as many games as they can so when you start calling for Flecks head next year, I can point at three straight 8-win seasons (minus the COVID year).

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

To be on top, you play the QB who gives you the best chance to win.

Apparently, Fleck believes that Morgan is that QB right now. I agree with Fleck.

That wasn’t the supposition.

We were ahead 24-0 with 7 minutes, i.e game in hand. You or I couldn’t have lost that game under center.

Regarding Kramer, I’m sure he’s a great person, like Weber was, but I find it hard to believe that Athan wasn’t the better player earlier in the season and was just recently passed.

Being the top paid public employee in the state means you better be comfy with those conversations; otherwise it’s just a nonsensical sound bite.

Short of Morgan being hurt, I don’t see Athan playing significant snaps the rest of the way.

So we’ll agree to disagree

 

[cjbfbp]

Because if winning the west is the only goal the Gophers have then they might as well pack it up after this year. Every W, every point scored, and every good defensive performance help recruiting, ticket sales, and national perception.

No point in playing the young guy until they have to. Athan comes in a throws a stupid pick and the Gophers don't have their first B1G shutout since 2004. Receivers might not have been getting open last week, but Athan couldn't place a ball to save his life. They can work on that in practice.

As it is, the Gophers just blanked a B1G team in front of a bunch of recruits.

Moreover, the people calling for Fleck to play Athan, like the moron that wrote this article, are the same people that would be calling for Fleck to be fired if they missed a bowl game this year because they decided to break in a Freshman QB a year before they had to.

Next year is going to be ugly. This year is about winning as many games as they can so when you start calling for Flecks head next year, I can point at three straight 8-win seasons (minus the COVID year).

I absolutely agree with you. I'm a firm believer in the George Allen philosophy: "The future is now!" You maximize the possibilities in the season you're playing and you worry about next season when that comes.

The view that we should forget about maximizing the season because the Big Ten West division is unlikely to be won is nonsense. Winning the Big Ten West division just gives you the right to be Ohio State's sacrificial lamb. Nobody in the future will give a shit about who lost the Big Ten championship game to Ohio State.

We may not have a very good season next year; all the more reason to try to have the best season we can from here on.

 

[Some guy]

Q - How do you get to Carnegie Hall?

A - Practice.

He gets better practice at practice than he does running garbage times reps.

7-8 snaps in garbage time has little to no impact

 

[RememberMurray]

That wasn’t the supposition.

We were ahead 24-0 with 7 minutes, i.e game on hand. You or I couldn’t have lost that game under center.

Regarding Kramer, I’m sure he’s a great person, like Weber was, but I find it hard to believe that Athan wasn’t the better player earlier in the season and was just recently passed.

Being the top paid public employee in the state means you better be comfy with those conversations; otherwise it’s just a nonsensical sound bite.

Short if Morgan being hurt, I don’t see Athan playing significant snaps the rest of the way.

So we’ll agree to disagree

If you're saying that inserting Kakiakmanis when the score was 24-0 would have had some kind of impact upon something that actually matters in the real world, then yes; we disagree.

Putting him in the game at that point in time wouldn't have made any difference in the game, or in the season, or in the future prospects of this team. Doing mop-up duty wouldn't have helped Athan's development. It wouldn't have helped him get ready to be the starter next season.

It would have meant exactly nothing. Except on Gopher Hole. It's definitely a big deal for some people here.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Yes.

He got real, valuable experience when he played the entire game against Penn State last week.

He'll play plenty next year.

He'll get his shot.

Do you think Morgan will make the difference in the remaining games?

 

[RememberMurray]

Do you think Morgan will make the difference in the remaining games?

I think he gives us the best chance to win. If he gives us a better chance to win, then that is, by definition, a difference. In fact, it's the only difference that matters. It matters more than who is taller, or who has a "bigger arm", or who is a faster runner.

More importantly, P.J. Fleck thinks so too.

LaVelle E. Neal disagrees, of course. But sports media types love two things above all others: QB controversies, and fire-the-coach movements.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

He gets better practice at practice than he does running garbage times reps.

7-8 snaps in garbage time has little to no impact

Agree to disagree.

Game speed can never be replicated in practice.

When I played baseball in college, the biggest difference was the speed of the game; would be slicked if that wasn’t even more noticeable in CFB

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

If you're saying that inserting Kakiakmanis when the score was 24-0 would have had some kind of impact upon something that actually matters in the real world, then yes; we disagree.

Putting him in the game at that point in time wouldn't have made any difference in the game, or in the season, or in the future prospects of this team. Doing mop-up duty wouldn't have helped Athan's development. It wouldn't have helped him get ready to be the starter next season.

It would have meant exactly nothing. Except on Gopher Hole. It's definitely a big deal for some people here.

It makes a difference in his development, that’s been my point the whole time and I thought it was patently obvious - my bad.

 

[RememberMurray]

It makes a difference in his development, that’s been my point the whole time and I thought it was patently obvious - my bad.

There's the disagreement:

I strongly believe that it makes no difference in his development to be tasked with doing mop-up duty.

None.

 

[PMWinSTP]

I think he gives us the best chance to win. If he gives us a better chance to win, then that is, by definition, a difference. In fact, it's the only difference that matters. It matters more than who is taller, or who has a "bigger arm", or who is a faster runner.

More importantly, P.J. Fleck thinks so too.

LaVelle E. Neal disagrees, of course. But sports media types love two things above all others: QB controversies, and fire-the-coach movements.

I'm on the fence whether Morgan would be the difference between winning or losing compared to Athan. I think it wasprobably a missed opportunity. Perfect environment and opportunity (home against Rutgers) to have Athan play another full game as a counter what he experienced at Penn State.

 

[RememberMurray]

I'm on the fence whether Morgan would be the difference between winning or losing compared to Athan. I think it wasprobably a missed opportunity. Perfect environment and opportunity (home against Rutgers) to have Athan play another full game as a counter what he experienced at Penn State.

I keep saying this, over and over:

Athan will get his shot.

If he's everything we think he is, he'll step up when his time comes, just like Tanner did. Playing time this season will not be the determining factor in his eventual success or failure. I don't think he's that fragile.

 

[Word]

I keep saying this, over and over:

Athan will get his shot.

If he's everything we think he is, he'll step up when his time comes, just like Tanner did. Playing time this season will not be the determining factor in his eventual success or failure. I don't think he's that fragile.

I think the Morgan/AK debate has run its course. I don't think anyone on either side will change their mind. I'm in the camp of Morgan is the best Gopher qb of my lifetime, but think AK could end up being better. I agree mop-up duty is meaningless though. It would almost be better to have Kramer come in for mop-up duty if you're going to do that.

 

[RememberMurray]

I think the Morgan/AK debate has run its course. I don't think anyone on either side will change their mind. I'm in the camp of Morgan is the best Gopher qb of my lifetime, but think AK could end up being better. I agree mop-up duty is meaningless though. It would almost be better to have Kramer come in for mop-up duty if you're going to do that.

I think Kaliakmanis will be outstanding.

Again, if he's everything we think he is, he'll step up when he gets his chance, just like Morgan did.

 

[PMWinSTP]

I keep saying this, over and over:

Athan will get his shot.

If he's everything we think he is, he'll step up when his time comes, just like Tanner did. Playing time this season will not be the determining factor in his eventual success or failure. I don't think he's that fragile.

Getting his shot is not really the point. I absolutely think starting the last five games this year would have him much, much better prepared going into next season. No question in my mind. Again, not a knock on Morgan, he's been wonderful.