Kill's Last Seizure

[Iceland12]

This was from the ESPN article. Don't know why it's been ignored locally or here. No, as for here, I kind of do; "ignore lists" and pissing contests.

"He's doing good. He's continuing to get the rest he needs and work with the doctors to do the best they can to get the situation under control with his medicine," Claeys said. "They still believe they can do that."

Kill's latest seizure stemmed from a medication adjustment. Claeys said he's spoken daily with Kill on the phone but hasn't discussed a timetable for Kill coming back.

He did miss a game and how important that is is certainly debatable. His choice not to play Leidner, the lack of a Pass Rush, the Offense etc., those are also debatable, but the seizure itself? If it's true that it was the medication , then we're probably making to much out of it. If it was a medication "mistake", then whether he was Coaching the Gophers or sitting at home he was going to get sick.

Asking him to step-down or firing him because of drug failure or an interaction problem seems to really be out of line. Just a thought.

 

[CentralGopher]

This was from the ESPN article. Don't know why it's been ignored locally or here. No, as for here, I kind of do; "ignore lists" and pissing contests.

"He's doing good. He's continuing to get the rest he needs and work with the doctors to do the best they can to get the situation under control with his medicine," Claeys said. "They still believe they can do that."

Kill's latest seizure stemmed from a medication adjustment. Claeys said he's spoken daily with Kill on the phone but hasn't discussed a timetable for Kill coming back.

He did miss a game and how important that is is certainly debatable. His choice not to play Leidner, the lack of a Pass Rush, the Offense etc., those are also debatable, but the seizure itself? If it's true that it was the medication itself, then we're probably making to much out of it. If it was a medication "mistake", then whether he was Coaching the Gophers or sitting at home he was going to get sick.

Asking him to step-down or firing him because of drug failure or an interaction problem seems to really be out of line. Just a thought.

I thought that myself. I saw that yesterday and was going to point it out but couldn't find the quote in an article so left it alone. Seems some people don't want facts to get in the way of a good story.

 

[Triple D]

OK, playing Devil's Advocate here: If it's true it was brought on by a medication adjustment, does Kill bear any responsibility for allowing the medication to be adjusted during a game week? I mean they knew we were on bye this week, why not wait until this week to adjust the medication?

I'm not saying Kill is to blame, but are the doctors looking at the bigger picture of timing here, or is it something that could not wait....I've been fortunate to be in good health and not needing to rely on medications with tapering doses.

 

[Bad Gopher]

I don't think it was ignored here. The concern that's been expressed by other posters is that the medication might have been adjusted because it was kicking his ass as prescribed and dosed, perhaps making him tired, sleepy, etc, etc. That's pure speculation, of course, but it's plausible, and speculation is about all we have to go on right now.

 

[MNGoldenGophers1]

OK, playing Devil's Advocate here: If it's true it was brought on by a medication adjustment, does Kill bear any responsibility for allowing the medication to be adjusted during a game week? I mean they knew we were on bye this week, why not wait until this week to adjust the medication?

I'm not saying Kill is to blame, but are the doctors looking at the bigger picture of timing here, or is it something that could not wait....I've been fortunate to be in good health and not needing to rely on medications with tapering doses.

I highly doubt he took the AJ route and went off the grid. And unlike an ankle sprain or some football related injury, this is complicated stuff and none of us are in a position to be judging what is going on from a medical standpoint. Except of course, Dr. Don.

 

[Iceland12]

OK, playing Devil's Advocate here: If it's true it was brought on by a medication adjustment, does Kill bear any responsibility for allowing the medication to be adjusted during a game week? I mean they knew we were on bye this week, why not wait until this week to adjust the medication?

I'm not saying Kill is to blame, but are the doctors looking at the bigger picture of timing here, or is it something that could not wait....I've been fortunate to be in good health and not needing to rely on medications with tapering doses.

No. Ask anybody who has heart troubles, back troubles, diabetes etc. If their Doctors say the meds need to be adjusted, the meds are adjusted. The problem is the Doctors, being human, can and often are, wrong.

 

[gophmeister]

OK, playing Devil's Advocate here: If it's true it was brought on by a medication adjustment, does Kill bear any responsibility for allowing the medication to be adjusted during a game week? I mean they knew we were on bye this week, why not wait until this week to adjust the medication?

I'm not saying Kill is to blame, but are the doctors looking at the bigger picture of timing here, or is it something that could not wait....I've been fortunate to be in good health and not needing to rely on medications with tapering doses.

This might be one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this board.

 

[mnsports1]

I highly doubt he took the AJ route and went off the grid. And unlike an ankle sprain or some football related injury, this is complicated stuff and none of us are in a position to be judging what is going on from a medical standpoint. Except of course, Dr. Don.

What!!! We have been told by a "journalist" who "works" for this site and happens to be a "gopher fan" that Kill does not listen to anybody, including his Doctors. And I trust him despite the fact that he is right "2%" of the time.

 

[Triple D]

This might be one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this board.

Why is it dumb to question if they had waited one more week to adjust the medication until we were on bye week that Kill may not have had a seizure, he would have been available to coach against Michigan, we may have won against a not so great Michigan team, we may not have been 0-2 in B10 play with lots of people now saying Kill is overmatched and needs to go, and we wouldn't have been having to be involved in another endless discussion about another seizure controversy?

Just sayin' if it was me I may have told the docs to wait a week before tapering due to my coaching responsibilites knowing I had a bye week coming up.

Maybe the docs demanded that he switch doses when they did, if so then none of it is on Kill.

I was just providing food for thought, like I said just playing Devil's Advocate for a discussion topic.

I'm already on the Gopherhole Wall of Fame for winning last week's Predict the Score, do I make the Gopherhole Dumbest topic board too?

 

[everybody knows my name]

Speculation, speculation, speculation.

Adjusting medication can mean so many things. I'm not suggesting it's one of the following, but it could be increasing, reducing, removing certain medications, introducing others, mixing them, changing their proportions in a mix...we don't know which it is, if any of the above. We don't know whether they've been making these changes continuously for the last two years or just made a one-time adjustment.

I know that coach Kill is hoping, like we all are, that eventually they'll hit on the magic combination that stops the seizures 100%. At any rate, he's my guy and I'm confident he'll win at Minnesota.

 

[Dr. Lloyd Christmas]

This was from the ESPN article. Don't know why it's been ignored locally or here. No, as for here, I kind of do; "ignore lists" and pissing contests.

"He's doing good. He's continuing to get the rest he needs and work with the doctors to do the best they can to get the situation under control with his medicine," Claeys said. "They still believe they can do that."

Kill's latest seizure stemmed from a medication adjustment. Claeys said he's spoken daily with Kill on the phone but hasn't discussed a timetable for Kill coming back.

He did miss a game and how important that is is certainly debatable. His choice not to play Leidner, the lack of a Pass Rush, the Offense etc., those are also debatable, but the seizure itself? If it's true that it was the medication , then we're probably making to much out of it. If it was a medication "mistake", then whether he was Coaching the Gophers or sitting at home he was going to get sick.

Asking him to step-down or firing him because of drug failure or an interaction problem seems to really be out of line. Just a thought.

That's highly speculative; I wonder where the writer heard this. Proving that the adjustment in medication caused the seizure would be difficult. Correlation ≠ causation.

 

[Great Plains Gopher]

A thought: if the Gophers had won the Iowa and Michigan games, wouldn't there be a very different slant on Kill's illness? Wouldn't the approach be: What can we do to help him, to keep him coaching, to keep him at Minnesota? Isn't losing games casting a different light on the whole situation?

 

[JerryKillFan]

Isn't losing games casting a different light on the whole situation?

Yes.

I'm pretty sure Jerry Kill could have worn a clear colostomy bag around his neck with no mention had we beaten Iowa.

PS - Since the PC police seem to be on full alert today I'll apologize in advance to any site members who use colostomy bags.

 

[GopherinPhilly]

I have been put in a similar position. I was put a new medication about 5 years ago and it had a bad reaction with an allergy medication I was already on. The doctor didn't know about the possible interactions because the allergy medicine was over the counter and the new medication was never tested against it.

I took it at 7 AM, was in front of 40 sales people that worked for me at 9 AM and went completely loopy. Lost focus, blurry eyed, lost my balance and was basically mumbling and rambling for like 5 minutes before people realized it wasn't a joke. It was pretty freaking embarrassing, especially since I owned the company and these people all worked for me.

Stuff happens

 

[Iceland12]

A thought: if the Gophers had won the Iowa and Michigan games, wouldn't there be a very different slant on Kill's illness? Wouldn't the approach be: What can we do to help him, to keep him coaching, to keep him at Minnesota? Isn't losing games casting a different light on the whole situation?

Quite true and conversely we wouldn't be hearing all the "leave him alone, he's dealing with an illness" and more of "why was stroking Nelson's ego more important than trying to beat the f*ing Hawkeyes?"

 

[thailleagle]

There is no cure for seizures...

They give you a combination of meds that your body is most compatible with & keeps the seizures at bay but after a while the body adjusts to them & their effects start to fade & you have to adjust your meds. The seizures will never stop but it can get to a point where he could possibly have maybe 1 seizure every 2-3 years & I'm sure he would be able to live with that. I personally don't care... if Kill feels he can do his job despite the seizures then great & if he ever decides coaching is taking a toll on his health then I support him choosing to walk away. I already know his health is just a scapegoat because we're losing... I guarantee if we were 6-0 it would be a minor story...

 

[ImaGopher]

I took it at 7 AM, was in front of 40 sales people that worked for me at 9 AM and went completely loopy. Lost focus, blurry eyed, lost my balance and was basically mumbling and rambling for like 5 minutes before people realized it wasn't a joke. It was pretty freaking embarrassing, especially since I owned the company and these people all worked for me.

So in other words, you were acting the way you do on Gopherhole.

 

[gophmeister]

Why is it dumb to question if they had waited one more week to adjust the medication until we were on bye week that Kill may not have had a seizure, he would have been available to coach against Michigan, we may have won against a not so great Michigan team, we may not have been 0-2 in B10 play with lots of people now saying Kill is overmatched and needs to go, and we wouldn't have been having to be involved in another endless discussion about another seizure controversy?

Just sayin' if it was me I may have told the docs to wait a week before tapering due to my coaching responsibilites knowing I had a bye week coming up.

Maybe the docs demanded that he switch doses when they did, if so then none of it is on Kill.

I was just providing food for thought, like I said just playing Devil's Advocate for a discussion topic.

I'm already on the Gopherhole Wall of Fame for winning last week's Predict the Score, do I make the Gopherhole Dumbest topic board too?

If you have to ask why it's dumnb there's no hope for you.

 

[Iceland12]

There is no cure for seizures...

They give you a combination of meds that your body is most compatible with & keeps the seizures at bay but after a while the body adjusts to them & their effects start to fade & you have to adjust your meds. The seizures will never stop but it can get to a point where he could possibly have maybe 1 seizure every 2-3 years & I'm sure he would be able to live with that. I personally don't care... if Kill feels he can do his job despite the seizures then great & if he ever decides coaching is taking a toll on his health then I support him choosing to walk away. I already know his health is just a scapegoat because we're losing... I guarantee if we were 6-0 it would be a minor story...

Honestly thaill, it still would be a major story but the storyline would be very different. "Here's a Coach who doesn't know from week to week whether he's going to be on the sidelines for a game or not and he's got a formerly moribund Gopher Program to a 6-0 record and in the Top Twenty in the country. The question is can he continue to do both?'

Gopher Fans though would mainly be thrilled with the record and yeah probably, less concerned about his health issues. That's if they talked about his health at all.

 

[everybody knows my name]

I have been put in a similar position. I was put a new medication about 5 years ago and it had a bad reaction with an allergy medication I was already on. The doctor didn't know about the possible interactions because the allergy medicine was over the counter and the new medication was never tested against it.

I took it at 7 AM, was in front of 40 sales people that worked for me at 9 AM and went completely loopy. Lost focus, blurry eyed, lost my balance and was basically mumbling and rambling for like 5 minutes before people realized it wasn't a joke. It was pretty freaking embarrassing, especially since I owned the company and these people all worked for me.

Stuff happens

Hooray for GopherinPhilly!

...and unlike the tea baggers in congress, don't over react, don't quote God incorrectly and don't dispute all science and reason.

WTF? You had me until this. Maybe we could keep your politics out of this discussion.

 

[St Paul Gopher]

As another poster mentioned, adjusting could mean a lot of different things. My 7 year old son has epilepsy and there are really only 2 times they ever adjust his meds. 1) There has been a change in the effectiveness of a drug or drugs. 2) The side effects of a drug are causing unacceptable changes to mood, behavior, lifestyle, etc.

With #1, things are quite different for a child than an adult. For starters, a growing child may need to have the amount of the drug increased periodically as weight and metabolism change. My son has had breakthrough seizures during growth spurts. This has required increasing dosages on occasion, and changing drugs altogether at other times.

A second point about changing meds is that we have always had to taper off one and onto another drug over the course of several weeks. I have no insight if this is a pediatric procedure or if it is standard protocol, but what it does mean is that when a drug ceases to be effective for whatever reason, there are periods of several weeks where you are not getting an effective dose of either drug, and since there is a lot of throwing darts involved with drug selection, it is possible that the process may need to be repeated several times.


With point #2 above, many of the drugs used to treat epilepsy are also used to treat bi-polar and other mood disorders. This is only relevant to point out that there can be pretty severe changes to mood and behavior with drug changes. An adult can handle a lot more side effects than a child, especially if the drug is proving to be effective in limiting seizure activity, but when a common side effect is lethargy, a football coach likely has limits to what level of side effect he can tolerate.

I provided very little of value here, but that is sort of the point with a lot of the approach to treating epilepsy. I've been more impressed with my son's neurologist than I have with any of the dozens of specialists I've worked with over the years, and he's very well respected in his field, but he is very up front about how little we actually know about treatments. For some patients, "control" might mean only having a few seizure's a day. For others, it could be one a week, one a month, one a year. We have no idea what sort of frequency is "normal" for coach Kill, nor do we know how many drugs and in what combinations he's tried.

As a parent of a child with epilepsy, and as someone who has spent a lot of time fundraising for the Epilepsy Foundation of Minnesota, I really do wish the best for coach Kill. It is a sad situation because he deserves a chance to be judged on wins and losses, but it appears his condition might not allow that. On the other hand, the University, the players and the fans deserve a coach that is capable of being there day in and day out. We know the will and drive are there, but you know what they say about the best laid plans. If that sounds like I'm trying to take both sides, it is likely because I am. I'm rooting for and supporting coach Kill, but I'm equally invested in the success of the team. Right now, I remain hopeful that a solution will be found that allows those interests to be compatible, but I'm also aware that with each successive incident, the paths depart a bit.

 

[thailleagle]

Honestly thaill, it still would be a major story but the storyline would be very different. "Here's a Coach who doesn't know from week to week whether he's going to be on the sidelines for a game or not and he's got a formerly moribund Gopher Program to a 6-0 record and in the Top Twenty in the country. The question is can he continue to do both?'

Gopher Fans though would mainly be thrilled with the record and yeah probably, less concerned about his health issues. That's if they talked about his health at all.

I see your point...

 

[MNGoldenGophers1]

Hooray for GopherinPhilly!



WTF? You had me until this. Maybe we could keep your politics out of this discussion.

Actually, that last part sealed the deal for me

 

[Dr.Don]

Why is it dumb to question if they had waited one more week to adjust the medication until we were on bye week that Kill may not have had a seizure, he would have been available to coach against Michigan, we may have won against a not so great Michigan team, we may not have been 0-2 in B10 play with lots of people now saying Kill is overmatched and needs to go, and we wouldn't have been having to be involved in another endless discussion about another seizure controversy?

Just sayin' if it was me I may have told the docs to wait a week before tapering due to my coaching responsibilites knowing I had a bye week coming up.

Maybe the docs demanded that he switch doses when they did, if so then none of it is on Kill.

I was just providing food for thought, like I said just playing Devil's Advocate for a discussion topic.

I'm already on the Gopherhole Wall of Fame for winning last week's Predict the Score, do I make the Gopherhole Dumbest topic board too?

That wall would have to be bigger than the Great Wall of China, Triple D.

 

[Killjoy]

That wall would have to be bigger than the Great Wall of China, Triple D.

Wrong again procto breath. They are one in the same.

 

[killme]

As another poster mentioned, adjusting could mean a lot of different things. My 7 year old son has epilepsy and there are really only 2 times they ever adjust his meds. 1) There has been a change in the effectiveness of a drug or drugs. 2) The side effects of a drug are causing unacceptable changes to mood, behavior, lifestyle, etc.

With #1, things are quite different for a child than an adult. For starters, a growing child may need to have the amount of the drug increased periodically as weight and metabolism change. My son has had breakthrough seizures during growth spurts. This has required increasing dosages on occasion, and changing drugs altogether at other times.

A second point about changing meds is that we have always had to taper off one and onto another drug over the course of several weeks. I have no insight if this is a pediatric procedure or if it is standard protocol, but what it does mean is that when a drug ceases to be effective for whatever reason, there are periods of several weeks where you are not getting an effective dose of either drug, and since there is a lot of throwing darts involved with drug selection, it is possible that the process may need to be repeated several times.


With point #2 above, many of the drugs used to treat epilepsy are also used to treat bi-polar and other mood disorders. This is only relevant to point out that there can be pretty severe changes to mood and behavior with drug changes. An adult can handle a lot more side effects than a child, especially if the drug is proving to be effective in limiting seizure activity, but when a common side effect is lethargy, a football coach likely has limits to what level of side effect he can tolerate.

I provided very little of value here, but that is sort of the point with a lot of the approach to treating epilepsy. I've been more impressed with my son's neurologist than I have with any of the dozens of specialists I've worked with over the years, and he's very well respected in his field, but he is very up front about how little we actually know about treatments. For some patients, "control" might mean only having a few seizure's a day. For others, it could be one a week, one a month, one a year. We have no idea what sort of frequency is "normal" for coach Kill, nor do we know how many drugs and in what combinations he's tried.

As a parent of a child with epilepsy, and as someone who has spent a lot of time fundraising for the Epilepsy Foundation of Minnesota, I really do wish the best for coach Kill. It is a sad situation because he deserves a chance to be judged on wins and losses, but it appears his condition might not allow that. On the other hand, the University, the players and the fans deserve a coach that is capable of being there day in and day out. We know the will and drive are there, but you know what they say about the best laid plans. If that sounds like I'm trying to take both sides, it is likely because I am. I'm rooting for and supporting coach Kill, but I'm equally invested in the success of the team. Right now, I remain hopeful that a solution will be found that allows those interests to be compatible, but I'm also aware that with each successive incident, the paths depart a bit.

What a wonderfully informative post!!! That stuff is way more beneficial to understanding the situation than all the guesses.

Now, as for the both sides of the fence thing... There's no doubt things move forward better if Kill is involved to the max, but in the "next man up" context, he's gone down a couple of times and everyone needs to keep moving, keep doing their jobs, make a good call, make a play, focus, persevere. He really is the glue to this whole thing.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

Claeys is just guessing and/or making a reason up. I think a rough week for Kill may have had much to do with the tide turning after the Iowa game. Upset, emotional and nervous about Michigan, it was no doubt a stress filled week.

 

[BreakTheGopherCurse]

This might be one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this board.

his statement may have seemed insensitive and, of course, highly speculative, but it was far from dumb. the real dumbell is the guy who called it a dumb post!

 

[hungan1]

As another poster mentioned, adjusting could mean a lot of different things. My 7 year old son has epilepsy and there are really only 2 times they ever adjust his meds. 1) There has been a change in the effectiveness of a drug or drugs. 2) The side effects of a drug are causing unacceptable changes to mood, behavior, lifestyle, etc.

With #1, things are quite different for a child than an adult. For starters, a growing child may need to have the amount of the drug increased periodically as weight and metabolism change. My son has had breakthrough seizures during growth spurts. This has required increasing dosages on occasion, and changing drugs altogether at other times.

A second point about changing meds is that we have always had to taper off one and onto another drug over the course of several weeks. I have no insight if this is a pediatric procedure or if it is standard protocol, but what it does mean is that when a drug ceases to be effective for whatever reason, there are periods of several weeks where you are not getting an effective dose of either drug, and since there is a lot of throwing darts involved with drug selection, it is possible that the process may need to be repeated several times.


With point #2 above, many of the drugs used to treat epilepsy are also used to treat bi-polar and other mood disorders. This is only relevant to point out that there can be pretty severe changes to mood and behavior with drug changes. An adult can handle a lot more side effects than a child, especially if the drug is proving to be effective in limiting seizure activity, but when a common side effect is lethargy, a football coach likely has limits to what level of side effect he can tolerate.

I provided very little of value here, but that is sort of the point with a lot of the approach to treating epilepsy. I've been more impressed with my son's neurologist than I have with any of the dozens of specialists I've worked with over the years, and he's very well respected in his field, but he is very up front about how little we actually know about treatments. For some patients, "control" might mean only having a few seizure's a day. For others, it could be one a week, one a month, one a year. We have no idea what sort of frequency is "normal" for coach Kill, nor do we know how many drugs and in what combinations he's tried.

As a parent of a child with epilepsy, and as someone who has spent a lot of time fundraising for the Epilepsy Foundation of Minnesota, I really do wish the best for coach Kill. It is a sad situation because he deserves a chance to be judged on wins and losses, but it appears his condition might not allow that. On the other hand, the University, the players and the fans deserve a coach that is capable of being there day in and day out. We know the will and drive are there, but you know what they say about the best laid plans. If that sounds like I'm trying to take both sides, it is likely because I am. I'm rooting for and supporting coach Kill, but I'm equally invested in the success of the team. Right now, I remain hopeful that a solution will be found that allows those interests to be compatible, but I'm also aware that with each successive incident, the paths depart a bit.

SPG, thanks for sharing your insightful & informative thoughts about epilepsy. I feel for Coach Kill and your son.

There is no better spokesperson for epilepsy than Coach Kill. He is an inspiration not only to those afflicted with the disorder, but to his players, coaches, and to the whole state. All those kids who play for him are made better human beings as he's shown how to conduct ones' life and face adversity.

 

[JoeDirt]

Very informative post SPG. I feel the same way you do about the situation as a whole. I just keep praying that Coach Kill can get his situation figured out and get on with building a program.