Kill/Mason Comparison

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MaxyJR1

MaxyJR1

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Dubay was trying to say that Mason would be getting killed in the public/media for the collapse at the end of the year on the radio this morning.

I think he would have a point if the two were on equal levels for comparison. Mason survived going backwards in year 4-5. Kill is just wrapping year three. We'll see what years 4-5 hold for Kill and our team.

After 3 seasons.

Mason = 16-19 overall and 8-16 in conference. One bowl loss.
Kill = 17-21 overall and 8-16 in conference. Two bowl losses.
 

Dubay is a blundering idiot and this illustrates, again, why he isn't qualified to discuss college football.
 

Do folks still listen to Dubay? I didn't know that.
 

The only a Mason item I agree with him is that he should have been able to coach into the new stadium. However, I don't lose sleep over his firing. It was justifiable.
 

A 60 year old Mason lost his mojo for recruiting. Maybe moving in to TCF stadium would have energized him. The
complete collapse against Syracuse highlighted by the punt return ending had many people thinking " Same old Gophers". I not ready to anoint Kill as a modern day Bernie Bierman. Let's see what year 4 brings.
 


MaxyJR1 said:
Dubay was trying to say that Mason would be getting killed in the public/media for the collapse at the end of the year on the radio this morning.

I think he would have a point if the two were on equal levels for comparison. Mason survived going backwards in year 4-5. Kill is just wrapping year three. We'll see what years 4-5 hold for Kill and our team.

After 3 seasons.

Mason = 16-19 overall and 8-16 in conference. One bowl loss.
Kill = 17-21 overall and 8-16 in conference. Two bowl losses.
Click to expand...

If the same thing is happening in years 4-10 then he has a point.

Isn't their show four hours long? I think they just need stuff to talk about because the show is too long.
 



I was very, very disappointed in the bowl game but saying they collapsed at the end of the season is asinine. First of all the Gophers played solid games against MSU and Wis. It also depends on when you play teams. If those two games were at the beginning of the schedule they could very well have ended the Big Ten season on a 4 game winning streak.

Some times it helps to use common sense.
 



MaxyJR1 said:
Dubay was trying to say that Mason would be getting killed in the public/media for the collapse at the end of the year on the radio this morning.

I think he would have a point if the two were on equal levels for comparison. Mason survived going backwards in year 4-5. Kill is just wrapping year three. We'll see what years 4-5 hold for Kill and our team.

After 3 seasons.

Mason = 16-19 overall and 8-16 in conference. One bowl loss.
Kill = 17-21 overall and 8-16 in conference. Two bowl losses.
Click to expand...


Dubay really comes off like a child. Apparently he can't deal with the fact that fans like Coach Kill and fans believe in Coach Kill and his program. Mason had a 10 year run. Perhaps had Mason instilled in others what Kill has, Mason would still be here. Mason did nothing to endear himself to the community or the fans or the people who controlled his destiny. Kill has. In fact I distinctly recall Coach Mason having contempt for Minnesota fans. Personality matters, how you treat others matters, and you reap what you sow.
 

I would say Kill is a bargain at 1.2 mm a year! Lowest in big ten ! Getting 8 wins and close on the other 3 has paid off- they will get better in game situations with more adjustments as they get more experienced. As a coaching staff. Look at Brady Hoke. Making for four time s as much as kill and wins less games! Injuries hurt the offense. Engel was a big part of the passing game as he was clutch on 3rd downs keeping drives going and big plays. He avg around 20 yards a catch in his career. Bak was rated number 1 in lineman for the year. Those two missed the last. 3 games effected the whole offense as kill stated on his radio show. Through in Christenson loss that's 3 starters out - Nelson was not in the same. Mitch struggled in those games as well until the 4th quarter. The offense went 13 quarters without scoring a TD
 

He can't be this dumb.

Almost every Gopher fan loved Mason after year #3. He didn't get blasted for losing to Oregon in the Sun Bowl, he was given a lot of slack in his early years.

If in the next 7 years, Kill never reaches a New Year's Bowl and he averages 3 Big 10 wins a season. . . Dubay might have a point.

If Kill goes 6-6 in year 4 and 4-7 in year 5, Dubay might have a point.

His argument is so bad that it can't be real. He has to remember that Mason was loved here after year 3 and he should have been. He has to notice that Kill is liked here and they have a bout the same record. There is no hypocrisy, they're being treated the same.
 

There are two significant differences between Kill and Mason:

1. Kill cares more about winning than Mason ever did.

2. Kill tries harder than Mason ever did.
 



It doesn't make a lot sense to compare the two but I see why folks do it because of the controversy it generates. I like Mason. I like Kill a lot.
 


MNGoldenGophers1 said:
It doesn't make a lot sense to compare the two but I see why folks do it because of the controversy it generates. I like Mason. I like Kill a lot.
Click to expand...

That's the media way now days! Make nothing into something so they can fill some time on their bad radio show.
 

GophersInIowa said:
That's the media way now days! Make nothing into something so they can fill some time on their bad radio show.
Click to expand...

Afraid so. Many of these guys(Judd and Dubay come to mind) also scream, yell and act like chickens with their heads cut off. It's refreshing to get some of the guys on that talk in a normal adult voice.

I'm a big fan of Tony K and Wilbon on PTI but I'm afraid they created a bunch of really bad pretenders/covers.

Once every month or so you need to watch First Take just to be reminded how bad those two are.
 

BreakTheGopherCurse said:
Dubay really comes off like a child. Apparently he can't deal with the fact that fans like Coach Kill and fans believe in Coach Kill and his program. Mason had a 10 year run. Perhaps had Mason instilled in others what Kill has, Mason would still be here. Mason did nothing to endear himself to the community or the fans or the people who controlled his destiny. Kill has. In fact I distinctly recall Coach Mason having contempt for Minnesota fans. Personality matters, how you treat others matters, and you reap what you sow.
Click to expand...


The answer to all of this foolishness will be answered by simply continuing to compare the Conference records of the two coaches year...after year...after year until it becomes obvious that ONE of the coaches is outdistancing himself from the other coach by winning MORE Conference game than the other one.

Comparing the records at three years makes it look pretty even. Year four for Kill will be a very important year for him. Remember, he will close year four with games against iowa, Nebraska, the Ohio State and wisky. That four game stretch could make or break this competition. IF Coach Kill does very well and picks up a couple of border battle wins plus one other win to win three of those four it could bode very well for him in the competition. However, if there are 3 or 4 losses in the final four Conference games, Coach Mason just might hold a pretty decent lead on Coach Kill.

It will be the NUMBERS, people. The winner of this ten year contest will be the one with the most Conference wins. That will most likely translate also to the most ooc wins AND perhaps even the most bowl game wins.

Losing too many Conference games in the month of November too many seasons just might take one or the other of these two FINE Coaches out of the running.

We will just have to tabulate the numbers at the end of each season. It will be the ONLY credible way to judge which of these very good coaches was better than the other here at the University of Minnesota.

My key will be the conference games played in the month of November from this point forward. In order to last ten seasons probably over half of those November games will need to be wins. And, the "wild card" will always be bowl game wins vs bowl game losses.

Believe me, I'm rooting for Coach Kill to win a hell of a lot of November Conference games...that will make my Novembers much more enjoyable!
 

Apples and oranges at this point.

Mason had some good years, but his teams always had a tendency to either crap the bed when it mattered most (Michigan), or played down to the level of poor opponents (NDSU, Indiana).

Kill has never had a game situation like the Michigan loss. You could say Wisconsin this year, but the Badgers were a better team than us. So was Michigan State. Kill's team this year didn't play down like Mason's did. The Iowa and Michigan losses hurt, but both those teams were more or less on the same level as the Gophers. If they'd played ten times, the records likely would have been .500. (and everyone expected Iowa to be terrible, and they weren't, and Michigan to be better, and they weren't).

The bowl losses the last two years have been disappointing to be sure, but really a minor bowl isn't that important (and there was far more to Mase's firing than the Texas Tech collapse). What is important is seeing progress with the team. Mason stagnated, while Kill seems to still be on an upward trajectory. It'll be a couple of years before we can really compare the two.
 

I don't think Jerry Kill is a step up from coach Mason. They are about equal and Dubay's assessment is no better or worse than anybody who posts on GH. He stated an opinion, not a fact. There are obvious weaknesses to the Kill program that need to be fixed for the team to be better. We also know the University needs to step up and continue to show it cares for the team with improvements that help attract high quality student/athletes. We alumni need to step up with quality donations to allow for those improvements. Coach Kill and company need to do more than be high quality dudes and show they are high quality coaches on the field and during their entire tenure. This year showed modest improvement in W's. But, the program is still a dumpster fire in so many other ways.
 

discochris said:
Apples and oranges at this point.

Mason had some good years, but his teams always had a tendency to either crap the bed when it mattered most (Michigan), or played down to the level of poor opponents (NDSU, Indiana).

Kill has never had a game situation like the Michigan loss. You could say Wisconsin this year, but the Badgers were a better team than us. So was Michigan State. Kill's team this year didn't play down like Mason's did. The Iowa and Michigan losses hurt, but both those teams were more or less on the same level as the Gophers. If they'd played ten times, the records likely would have been .500. (and everyone expected Iowa to be terrible, and they weren't, and Michigan to be better, and they weren't).

The bowl losses the last two years have been disappointing to be sure, but really a minor bowl isn't that important (and there was far more to Mase's firing than the Texas Tech collapse). What is important is seeing progress with the team. Mason stagnated, while Kill seems to still be on an upward trajectory. It'll be a couple of years before we can really compare the two.
Click to expand...

2014 is going to be a huge "show me" season for a lot of you people, isn't it. Some of you are projecting an "upward trend" for my Golden Gophers and you would probably be much less than supportive of Coach Kill IF 2014 produced only a couple of Conference wins and closed with some problems against iowa, Nebraska, the Ohio State and wisky. Also, another blown lead during the final few minutes of any bowl game might make some of you downright nasty.

Coach Kill is still at the stage of acceptance by some of you where any blame for a loss gets put squarely on the shoulders of one of the young players. Some of you may pick sides in Coach Kill's multiple-headed quarterback strategy and hate on one or the others of the quarterbacks. I do hope all will recall that my Golden Gopher Football team is a TEAM and any results on the playing field consists of contributions from EVERY player at EVERY position and all the game planning by the entire Kill Coaching Staff. I hope some of you people realize that the coaches get paid the big bucks and that in the final analysis, each and every loss goes on the head coach...while the head coach assigns credit for EVERY win to the players and his coaching staff.

So, 2014 will be a KEY year here on GOPHER HOLE for some of you posters who prefer to place blame on specific young student athletes rather than the highly paid coach. How much Teflon will Coach Kill retain during the 2014 Season? How many attacks will be directed against the young student athletes as they compete within Coach Kill's system that always does attempt to provide a quarterback controversy each and every season by virtue of always having at least two quarterbacks in the mix and ready to go and does use both in some of the same games some of the time. What will happen if a 3rd young student athlete joins the ranks of those shuttled in and out by the coach and his staff? Will there be three camps of quarterback groupies established here on GH? Will the discussions by the supporters of any...and all of the quarterbacks become even more heated?

Could the TEAM aspect of college football stand a possible 3rd quarterback in the mix in 2014 on a board such as GH that thrives on picking sides with one favorite being praised by supporters at the expense of the other two young student athlete quarterback candidates?

Hang on Gopher Hole posters! 2014 could be quite an interesting season in so very many ways!

However, the TOP question for some of you posters during the 2014 Season will remain the Mason vs. Kill discussion that some of you ALWAYS revert to. I, of course like both Mason and Kill and will always be looking at the number of conference wins vs the number of conference losses as they occur for my answer. You people will bring the subject up time after time. And when some of you do that it will be up to the rest of us to post our opinions! Life is so very good and some of you people will continue to want to ponder the Mason vs Kill questions.

And so it goes...

; 0 )
 

I think Coach Kill is a better coach when healthy. The thing that frustrates me is seeing him still in the booth during game day. That isn't a positive for the team and the program. People treated him standing on the sidelines in the second half like MacArthur returning to the Philippines. Its becoming a joke and it can't be helping recruiting. When he does his job I like what he does, but the program can't continue this way. You have to wonder if one of the reasons Jones is taking a look at Florida is because we don't' have a dependable coach. Here's hoping the New Year brings better health to Coach Kill.
 

Still whining about people criticizing the players wren? This is big time BCS football. It's a massive billion dollar entertainment enterprise in this country, and if the players don't perform, they deserve to be criticized.

Perhaps you'd be better off following a D3 program.
 

imthewalrus said:
2014 is going to be a huge "show me" season for a lot of you people, isn't it. Some of you are projecting an "upward trend" for my Golden Gophers...
Click to expand...

I crunched the numbers and here is what you can expect based on the first three years and the next three year trajectory. Anything less will be a disappointment. I'm pretty sure MG would back up my analysis.

Year RS Bowl/Playoff
2011 3-9 NA
2012 6-7 Meinke loss
2013 8-5. TX loss
2014 12-1 Rose Bowl Champs
2015 16-0 National Champs
2016 19-0 Super Bowl Champs

Go Gophers!
 

I liked Mason in the beginning but several things separate them. Kill is able to adapt better than Mason. Mason was horrible at making adjustments( Michigan, Texas Tech) He wins the TT game, he might still be coach. To me, Kill seems to have a more balanced team. Better passing, better overall defense. I didn't crunch any numbers but that's what it seems like to me. Kill is a good recruiter. He may not be getting 5 stars yet, but he is good at identifying talent. Mason was pretty good early on, but i wonder how much was him and how much was Browning and Shaw.
 

MNGoldenGophers1 said:
I crunched the numbers and here is what you can expect based on the first three years and the next three year trajectory. Anything less will be a disappointment. I'm pretty sure MG would back up my analysis.

Year RS Bowl/Playoff
2011 3-9 NA
2012 6-7 Meinke loss
2013 8-5. TX loss
2014 12-1 Rose Bowl Champs
2015 16-0 National Champs
2016 19-0 Super Bowl Champs

Go Gophers!
Click to expand...

My nominee for POY.
 



goldenman said:
Mason was a horrible people person too. Kill is a helluva guy
Click to expand...

Mason does not seem like such a bad guy when he is talking to Dan Barriero or in the B10 studio. His BTN cohosts and studio partners seem to like him on TV at least. Of course, most BCS head football coaches are type A people with huge egos, so these impressions mean very little.

Do you know Mason personally, accounting for your comment above?

I find it amusing that people who know nothing at all directly about these coaches comment on what a "great" guy Brewster was, who just could not pull off his brilliant vision, or how Jerry is such a great guy. Kill might be a great guy, but unless you know him personally how would you really know.
 

imthewalrus said:
The answer to all of this foolishness will be answered by simply continuing to compare the Conference records of the two coaches year...after year...after year until it becomes obvious that ONE of the coaches is outdistancing himself from the other coach by winning MORE Conference game than the other one.

Comparing the records at three years makes it look pretty even. Year four for Kill will be a very important year for him. Remember, he will close year four with games against iowa, Nebraska, the Ohio State and wisky. That four game stretch could make or break this competition. IF Coach Kill does very well and picks up a couple of border battle wins plus one other win to win three of those four it could bode very well for him in the competition. However, if there are 3 or 4 losses in the final four Conference games, Coach Mason just might hold a pretty decent lead on Coach Kill.

It will be the NUMBERS, people. The winner of this ten year contest will be the one with the most Conference wins. That will most likely translate also to the most ooc wins AND perhaps even the most bowl game wins.

Losing too many Conference games in the month of November too many seasons just might take one or the other of these two FINE Coaches out of the running.

We will just have to tabulate the numbers at the end of each season. It will be the ONLY credible way to judge which of these very good coaches was better than the other here at the University of Minnesota.

My key will be the conference games played in the month of November from this point forward. In order to last ten seasons probably over half of those November games will need to be wins. And, the "wild card" will always be bowl game wins vs bowl game losses.

Believe me, I'm rooting for Coach Kill to win a hell of a lot of November Conference games...that will make my Novembers much more enjoyable!
Click to expand...
That last four game stretch will be challenging but the first four conference games ( @ Michigan and Illinois and home with Purdue and Northwestern ) offer a good opportunity to start the conference with at least 3 wins. Personally , a conference win is a conference win regardless if it happens in late September or November. A 5-3 record is doable and would be a step forward. Winning at least one of those late rivalry games would be really nice.
 

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