Kill: changing my grade from B to A

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Handsome Pete

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I was excited when we got Kill, but after doing a little more research, watching the press conference, etc., I am starting to believe we could not have made a better hire. We could have gone with a more sure thing, but I cannot figure out why Golden, Hoke or Edsall would have been a better hire.

I'm getting the sense that a lot of the nay-sayers are coming around as well. Is anyone still grading this a C or below? If so, why?
 

Handsome Pete said:
I was excited when we got Kill, but after doing a little more research, watching the press conference, etc., I am starting to believe we could not have made a better hire. We could have gone with a more sure thing, but I cannot figure out why Golden, Hoke or Edsall would have been a better hire. I'm getting the sense that a lot of the nay-sayers are coming around as well. Is anyone still grading this a C or below? If so, why?
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These are my exact sentiments. I could see someone arguing Edsall because he coached at a higher level, but Golden, Hoke, Calhoun, Sumlin and Coach Ken can't be rated much higher by anyone. Coach Kill has been a Head Coach for longer, he has built two programs, and he won at a higher rate (or equally) to any of these guys.
 

My only complaint about the FSN coverage of the Press Conference was that we never got to see Kill's wife. Maybe I missed it.
 




My initial grades:

coaching wise B minus/ C plus (based upon Maturi yapping his gums and raising expectations

Public relations F

Current grade:

coaching/ football only A

Public Relations: who cares, it will take care of itself
 

I am still at an F and a press conference won't change that.

No success at a major school
2 wins in 3 years against teams with over .500 records
No experience period at a major school
No reason to believe he will recruit to at least the middle of the Big Ten
His staff has no experience recruiting top tier BCS athletes
Lost one of the biggest games in NIU history as 17.5 point favorites
Sub .500 playoff record in the lower divisions

I thought the administration "got it" this time. I was wrong.
 

EG#9 said:
I am still at an F and a press conference won't change that.

No success at a major school
2 wins in 3 years against teams with over .500 records
No experience period at a major school
No reason to believe he will recruit to at least the middle of the Big Ten
His staff has no experience recruiting top tier BCS athletes
Lost one of the biggest games in NIU history as 17.5 point favorites
Sub .500 playoff record in the lower divisions

I thought the administration "got it" this time. I was wrong.
Click to expand...

While you bring up valid points..

Still, Kill > Brew. It's an upgrade, stop bitching.
 

EG#9 said:
I am still at an F and a press conference won't change that.

No success at a major school
2 wins in 3 years against teams with over .500 records
No experience period at a major school
No reason to believe he will recruit to at least the middle of the Big Ten
His staff has no experience recruiting top tier BCS athletes
Lost one of the biggest games in NIU history as 17.5 point favorites
Sub .500 playoff record in the lower divisions

I thought the administration "got it" this time. I was wrong.
Click to expand...

Describe "major school." How many wins do Golden, Hoke, or Edsall have at "major schools?"
 



None of those guys were even close to the top of my list, but Edsall has coached and recruited in the Big East. Hoke was the Dline coach for Michigan and has experience at a level above the MAC at San Diego State. Golden was at Virginia in the ACC, so again there's experience at a level above the MAC in both coaching and recruiting. I'd take any of the three above Kill.
 

I still have him at a C or lower.

I am not sure what he has done to get an A or a B. He coached a MAC team that was set up by Coach Novak, with Coach Novak's players to a decent enough record, but he never beat anyone of consequence. You are probably sick of seeing the fact that he was 2-12 against winning teams, but it is a fact. So despite what is being claimed, he did not build two programs. He built one 1AA program in southern Illinois. Not saying he is a bad coach, not a Brewster, but certainly I don't see him as guy who is set to displace Bear Bryant on the list of all time coaching greats. But with all the gushing going on in this board in the last 24 hours, you would think that Ohio State should just concede the conference to Kill & company right now. He has gone to one MAC championship game and some meaningless bowl games. Ho hum.

The real reason for the low grade is that I don't think he has done enough to be the "wow" coach that Minnesota needs right now. I live down here in SEC country. The coaches here are larger than life type guys who command the media and can instantly get the attention of any recruit. A lot of the Big Ten, Big 12, Pac 10 and ACC coaches have the same star quality. Coach Kill may be a great, down home guy, but he does not have the star quality that will draw the high level recruit needed to compete in this conference. He does not project an image of being a powerful leader. If you are honest, you would have to say his appearance and personality will not turn the heads of any elite high school footballer. Good enough for the MAC maybe, although we don't know that because he left UNI before he would be playing mostly with his guys, but just not ready for the prime time. All the guys you mention as alternatives all have way more star quality than our new coach. They all, for the most part have more experience in big time programs.

I think we are in for an extended period of mediocrity and that did not have to be.
 

EG#9 said:
None of those guys were even close to the top of my list, but Edsall has coached and recruited in the Big East. Hoke was the Dline coach for Michigan and has experience at a level above the MAC at San Diego State. Golden was at Virginia in the ACC, so again there's experience at a level above the MAC in both coaching and recruiting. I'd take any of the three above Kill.
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From the sounds of it, so would have Maturi. You can't make 'em work for us if they don't want to take the job.
 

Giving Kill a grade right now is like a high school teacher grading a student based on their grades from the previous year. "Hey Bobby, I see you got a D in algebra last year. How about we start you at a D and see if you can do any better this year."

The guy has some coaching qualifications, lets see what he can do and have a grade discussion following next season.
 



hillbillygopher said:
He has gone to one MAC championship game and some meaningless bowl games. Ho hum.
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If after 3 years as coach here, Jerry Kill has taken us to two lower level bowl games, and is playing in the conference championship game in the third year, I will not be unhappy.
 

EG#9 said:
I am still at an F and a press conference won't change that.

No success at a major school
2 wins in 3 years against teams with over .500 records
No experience period at a major school
No reason to believe he will recruit to at least the middle of the Big Ten
His staff has no experience recruiting top tier BCS athletes
Lost one of the biggest games in NIU history as 17.5 point favorites
Sub .500 playoff record in the lower divisions

I thought the administration "got it" this time. I was wrong.
Click to expand...

Good thing Auburn didn't use some of your coaching prerequisites before hiring Gene Chizik. He was terrible at a major school, never reached a bowl game, and didn't beat anyone of significance.

He and his staff have shown that they can take recruiting classes ranked in the 100's and build a winning football team - a team that easily competed with major division 1 programs with inferior talent (lost in 2008 at Minnesota 31-27 and at Tennessee 13-9, lost in 2009 at Wisconsin 28-20 and defeated Purdue 28-21, lost in 2010 to Iowa State and Illinois and defeated Minnesota).

Recruiting is an important part of college football, but it certainly isn't the end-all-be-all. He and his staff have quality relationships throughout the Midwest and in Florida. If he gets the guys to fit his system and coaches them up, he'll be just fine.
 

hillbillygopher said:
I am not sure what he has done to get an A or a B. He coached a MAC team that was set up by Coach Novak, with Coach Novak's players to a decent enough record, but he never beat anyone of consequence. You are probably sick of seeing the fact that he was 2-12 against winning teams, but it is a fact. So despite what is being claimed, he did not build two programs. He built one 1AA program in southern Illinois. Not saying he is a bad coach, not a Brewster, but certainly I don't see him as guy who is set to displace Bear Bryant on the list of all time coaching greats. But with all the gushing going on in this board in the last 24 hours, you would think that Ohio State should just concede the conference to Kill & company right now. He has gone to one MAC championship game and some meaningless bowl games. Ho hum.

The real reason for the low grade is that I don't think he has done enough to be the "wow" coach that Minnesota needs right now. I live down here in SEC country. The coaches here are larger than life type guys who command the media and can instantly get the attention of any recruit. A lot of the Big Ten, Big 12, Pac 10 and ACC coaches have the same star quality. Coach Kill may be a great, down home guy, but he does not have the star quality that will draw the high level recruit needed to compete in this conference. He does not project an image of being a powerful leader. If you are honest, you would have to say his appearance and personality will not turn the heads of any elite high school footballer. Good enough for the MAC maybe, although we don't know that because he left UNI before he would be playing mostly with his guys, but just not ready for the prime time. All the guys you mention as alternatives all have way more star quality than our new coach. They all, for the most part have more experience in big time programs.

I think we are in for an extended period of mediocrity and that did not have to be.
Click to expand...


C'mon, are you honestly trying to argue that he didn't build the Northern Illinois team? He was coming off of a 2-10 team and the Huskies had never been to back to back bowl games in their history. In Kill's three seasons, they went to three straight bowl games. He took over a 2-10 football team and in 3 seasons brought them a higher level of success than their program has ever seen. That is the definition of rebuilding a program.

If he didn't rebuild Northern Illinois than the U job is not a rebuilding job either.

I know people like to bring up his record against teams over .500, but that is ignoring the fact that stat will exist amongst all mid major coaches (Al Golden 1-16 record against teams over .500, Hoke 4-16 (none from a BCS conference)). That's just the nature of coaching at a mid-major school.
 

EG#9 said:
I am still at an F and a press conference won't change that.

No success at a major school
2 wins in 3 years against teams with over .500 records
No experience period at a major school
No reason to believe he will recruit to at least the middle of the Big TenHis staff has no experience recruiting top tier BCS athletes
Lost one of the biggest games in NIU history as 17.5 point favorites
Sub .500 playoff record in the lower divisions
I thought the administration "got it" this time. I was wrong.
Click to expand...


Recruiting at Northern Illinois while he was there went from last in the MAC to the middle in the MAC (despite being one of only two teams not located in recruiting rich states (Michigan, Ohio, Penn).

And the sub .500 playoff record....seriously? You are blaming a guy who went to the playoffs 5 straight seasons and went 4-5 in the playoffs? Well, if that's important to you than there is really no argument one could make against that. There are 16 teams that make the playoff format, that would be the FCS equivalent of holding against a coach who went 4-5 on BCS Bowl Games.
 

Handsome Pete said:
I was excited when we got Kill, but after doing a little more research, watching the press conference, etc., I am starting to believe we could not have made a better hire. We could have gone with a more sure thing, but I cannot figure out why Golden, Hoke or Edsall would have been a better hire.

I'm getting the sense that a lot of the nay-sayers are coming around as well. Is anyone still grading this a C or below? If so, why?
Click to expand...
oi vey
 

People need to quit citing the stat of his record against ranked teams. As a MAC (or below school) the few times you play quality teams is usually at the beginning of the season as the role of a cupcake. It's not like he's continually lost to these teams throughout his season. When put on an equal playing field with this competition, he's enjoyed a lot of success. Not saying he is going to automatically lead us to prominence but I think he will have a chance. Another thing, all Leach freaks out there that are screaming that we should have taken a risk and hired the pirate, don't you think Kill was taking a calculated risk?
 

hillbillygopher said:
I am not sure what he has done to get an A or a B. He coached a MAC team that was set up by Coach Novak, with Coach Novak's players to a decent enough record, but he never beat anyone of consequence. You are probably sick of seeing the fact that he was 2-12 against winning teams, but it is a fact. So despite what is being claimed, he did not build two programs. He built one 1AA program in southern Illinois. Not saying he is a bad coach, not a Brewster, but certainly I don't see him as guy who is set to displace Bear Bryant on the list of all time coaching greats. But with all the gushing going on in this board in the last 24 hours, you would think that Ohio State should just concede the conference to Kill & company right now. He has gone to one MAC championship game and some meaningless bowl games. Ho hum.

The real reason for the low grade is that I don't think he has done enough to be the "wow" coach that Minnesota needs right now. I live down here in SEC country. The coaches here are larger than life type guys who command the media and can instantly get the attention of any recruit. A lot of the Big Ten, Big 12, Pac 10 and ACC coaches have the same star quality. Coach Kill may be a great, down home guy, but he does not have the star quality that will draw the high level recruit needed to compete in this conference. He does not project an image of being a powerful leader. If you are honest, you would have to say his appearance and personality will not turn the heads of any elite high school footballer. Good enough for the MAC maybe, although we don't know that because he left UNI before he would be playing mostly with his guys, but just not ready for the prime time. All the guys you mention as alternatives all have way more star quality than our new coach. They all, for the most part have more experience in big time programs.

I think we are in for an extended period of mediocrity and that did not have to be.
Click to expand...

Derek Dooley is larger than life?
 

hillbillygopher said:
The real reason for the low grade is that I don't think he has done enough to be the "wow" coach that Minnesota needs right now. I live down here in SEC country. The coaches here are larger than life type guys who command the media and can instantly get the attention of any recruit. A lot of the Big Ten, Big 12, Pac 10 and ACC coaches have the same star quality. Coach Kill may be a great, down home guy, but he does not have the star quality that will draw the high level recruit needed to compete in this conference. He does not project an image of being a powerful leader. If you are honest, you would have to say his appearance and personality will not turn the heads of any elite high school footballer. Good enough for the MAC maybe, although we don't know that because he left UNI before he would be playing mostly with his guys, but just not ready for the prime time. All the guys you mention as alternatives all have way more star quality than our new coach. They all, for the most part have more experience in big time programs.
.
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This is why I feel we need a super recruiter / recruiting coordinator. Brew could recruit, but couldn't coach on game day, didn't have a good plan for the program, etc. Kill looks like he can coach and run a program, but neither he nor his staff from NIU have experience recruiting all high-level 3* (and hopefully some 4*) guys who have several offers from other BigTen and BCS schools. He's not gonna play Ball State, Eastern Michigan, etc every week. He has to get better players than he had at NIU. I'm hopeful that he can, but I wishe Maturi and the Dept would spend more on these efforts to get them up to speed.
 

He might be what you guys need. A guy who knows how to coach up football players. Minnesota with its relatively poor in house talent pool to draw from requires someone who knows how to teach the game. That appears to be what Kill is. I think you guys will be fine.

A "super recruiter" is not what you need. You need substance. Recruiting is sales. To draw 5 star athletes from Texas and Florida to Minnesota, a lot of it would be lies and crooked under the table deals. You need to win cheap first and after you've had some success, have a guy who'll keep pushing the envelope to continually upgrade the talent pool with better athletes that are coming legitimately.

If you guys start landing top 10 or 15 classes year in and year out, you better have a series of top 10 or 15 finishes leading up to it or something is rotten in Denmark.
 

Recruit Minnesota

Like I said in another thread, Kill will vastly improve this program if he puts a wall around Minnesota and recruits the state. Out of 24 starters (kicker/punter included) for Wisconsin, 17 out of the 24 are from either Minnesota or Wisconsin. I think it's important to recruit from the south for speed but when fans only complain about recruiting, I think they miss the big picture. Brewster had the #3 recruiting class in the Big Ten in '08 but it didn't matter because he couldn't develop talent.

Kill is the right choice because he will recruit players that will accommodate his philosophy. Brewster's biggest recruit doesn't even play the position he was recruited for because Brewster had no identity when it came to coaching. Kill is all about the run and that right there is a good start. After all he did coach and develop Brandon Jacobs and Michael Turner. This hire is a huge improvement for the program.
 

Valid points

EG#9 said:
I am still at an F and a press conference won't change that.

No success at a major school
2 wins in 3 years against teams with over .500 records
No experience period at a major school
No reason to believe he will recruit to at least the middle of the Big Ten
His staff has no experience recruiting top tier BCS athletes
Lost one of the biggest games in NIU history as 17.5 point favorites
Sub .500 playoff record in the lower divisions

I thought the administration "got it" this time. I was wrong.
Click to expand...

The loss to Miami is troubling, but it was only 26-21 and a last minute thing. The winning coach in that battle was blown out several times this year, but Kill wasn't. I'm hoping he'll be like Pont and Trestle and others who have moved up successfully.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
C'mon, are you honestly trying to argue that he didn't build the Northern Illinois team? He was coming off of a 2-10 team and the Huskies had never been to back to back bowl games in their history. In Kill's three seasons, they went to three straight bowl games. He took over a 2-10 football team and in 3 seasons brought them a higher level of success than their program has ever seen. That is the definition of rebuilding a program.

If he didn't rebuild Northern Illinois than the U job is not a rebuilding job either.

I know people like to bring up his record against teams over .500, but that is ignoring the fact that stat will exist amongst all mid major coaches (Al Golden 1-16 record against teams over .500, Hoke 4-16 (none from a BCS conference)). That's just the nature of coaching at a mid-major school.
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Bob

this is no time to bring facts into the discussion
 

I think what coach Kill said in his press conference was really interesting. That "Football is football."

Will the steps he took at Southern Illinois and Northern Illinois to bring them back to relevance work in the Big 10? If so, we have nothing to worry about as we will be competing with Wisconsin or Iowa in no time.

Will it take longer than the MAC and Division-1AA make over took? Probably, but we are patient here and if we see improvement and promise from him he can take his time. The thing with Brewster was (And I'm not saying anything new here) it was obvious that the team wasn't getting any better with him at the helm.

Will the steps simply not work in the Big 10? If so, can Coach Kill make adjustments? This is where I say he can because he appears to have a high football IQ. He knows what it takes to win, and knowing what it takes to win is being able to adjust. Something Brewster NEVER could do.

(I know I might be piling on here, but I don't believe Brewster had ANY redeeming qualities. Don't care about graduation rates, don't care about traditions, don't care about recruiting. Any coach could have done the things he did here, better! Rant over, had to get that out one last time :D)
 

Still Wrong

EG#9 said:
I am still at an F and a press conference won't change that.

No success at a major school
2 wins in 3 years against teams with over .500 records
No experience period at a major school
No reason to believe he will recruit to at least the middle of the Big Ten
His staff has no experience recruiting top tier BCS athletes
Lost one of the biggest games in NIU history as 17.5 point favorites
Sub .500 playoff record in the lower divisions

I thought the administration "got it" this time. I was wrong.
Click to expand...

You are still wrong. You are also not a great football mind like you think you are if you thought that one of the elite big name coaches was going to be hired.
 

gopherfield said:
This is why I feel we need a super recruiter / recruiting coordinator. Brew could recruit, but couldn't coach on game day, didn't have a good plan for the program, etc. Kill looks like he can coach and run a program, but neither he nor his staff from NIU have experience recruiting all high-level 3* (and hopefully some 4*) guys who have several offers from other BigTen and BCS schools. He's not gonna play Ball State, Eastern Michigan, etc every week. He has to get better players than he had at NIU. I'm hopeful that he can, but I wishe Maturi and the Dept would spend more on these efforts to get them up to speed.
Click to expand...

Your tax money is not being spent--- easy to say we can over spend for a coach and the buyout cost associated when you are not even paying taxes to fund the University of Minnesota. All in the name of hiring a big name. We need a coach who brings a staff that will recruit with a purpose and will coach up the players to compete on a regular basis. He has proven that he is a leader in all of his previous jobs. He is a self made coach. He didn't work for years as an assistant and luck out that the program prospered -- like Mullen. He was promoted several times by being recruited and hired at bigger programs without backers and boosters in his corner arranging for it. I would have been very happy with Mullen, but the money he was wanting was equal to over paying grossly -- IMO.

Kill is a very real and inspiring life story. All of the places he used to coach at still love and respect him. We are lucky to get him.
 

They are sure trying to . . .

Nashvlgopher said:
Derek Dooley is larger than life?
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turn him into the next rock star, don't you think. How many commercials can one guy who hasn't won anything yet do. And do you believe he would have been hired if (a) he did not have the Dooley name and lineage and (b) was not mediagenic. Mostly mediagenic just like Kiffen before him. If Dooley can win, he will be the next big media darling in TN and all over the Southeast. The coach as rock star is becoming or has become the norm - it is what multi-star recruits expect to see from their coach. Can you see Coach Kill fitting into this mold.

And to the poster who asked about Chizek, I think that Auburn is an anomoly. My cynical view would be that he got the job because Bobby Lowder thought that he would go along with the good old boy program. It will be very interesting to see if and how this whole thing unravels.

Finally, to the poster asking about the building of the program at NIU, I suggest you go back and look at what Coach Novak did. The 2-10 season was a little out of the ordinary. This is not a put down of Coach Kill, but he had the pieces in place when he got there. Way different situation than here.
 

When it was first announced Kill was our new coach my glass was half empty, now after his press conference and learning more about him it is half full and when President Kaler announces our new AD it will spilleth over!!
 

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