Kill and Walk-Ons

[RodentRampage]

It is about putting a $ value on dreams. Is the dream of playing for the U worth the risk of having to pay for college? That $ value is what ~$100k if they turn down a free ride from one of the dakota schools?

For some, it's the dream of playing for the Gophers. For others it's just the dream of playing football at a top-level conference. You do have to weigh this against the cost of college. For some, college just isn't an option at all without a scholarship. They have no choice but to take whatever scholarship comes available. For others, college is more affordable, and if they don't wind up winning a scholarship in a year or two, they could always transfer. You can offer someone a chance to walk on, but I can't blame anyone for taking a free ride to college.

I realize the caliber of play in Minnesota's JUCOs is lower than in some states, but does the U ever get any players from our in-state JUCOs?

 

[emann]

It's all about dreams, kids that dream about being Gophers will walk on, and spurn lower level scholarshps. We have some of that but not enough.

This may be a nice narrative in our minds, and sure everyone can remember the film "Rudy," but that statement romanticizes collegiate sports and teenagers a bit much. It would be one thing if Minnesota was a Florida/Alabama/Ohio State, five-star prestige school.

But it's not.

A lot of kids just want to play when it gets to the point of being a walk-on or a deep reserve. It's a rare kid who wants to go to all of the early morning and evening practices, do all of the hard work, only to never play and get beat up on the scout team, if that. A large portion of kids who ARE already playing all the time don't want to practice all the time.

Most of these kids think, "Why walk-on, be ignored and hope for a scholarship?" when they can go somewhere else and be King *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# on Turd Island.

This year, St. Thomas had four players who started out D-I: Brady Ervin (Iowa State), Tommy Becker (Minnesota), Joe Schafer (Wisconsin) and Curtis James (walk-on at Minnesota).

"Obviously, getting a chance to play was important to me," Schafer told MinnPost about transferring.

What about Shane Potter, who had a scholarship even at the U but left for USD? He was the kid who dreamed about playing for the Gophers. What happened to that dream? Here's what he told the Sioux Falls (S.D.) Argus Leader, "I just couldn't see putting five years into that program and wondering how much I was going to get to play."

Gordy Shaw, then the Gophers offensive line coach and now the offensive coordinator for USD, knew Potter felt as much and talked him in to transferring to USD. "They tried to make him a linebacker," Shaw said in a Star Tribune article. "Shane just saw better things for himself. ... He wanted to play immediately, and he's done that."

Football players want to play football. There are many other places to do so if they aren't going to get clock at the University of Minnesota, which isn't exactly the class of the Big Ten.

 

[RodentRampage]

For some players, the free ride is what is important, for others it is playing time. But that's not all of them, if it was, the roster would only have the 85 scholarship players. The media guide shows a roster of 99 players, so the desirability of Minnesota as a walk-on destination does not look totally dire.

 

[nsmike]

emann in the context of your post, explain the Tow-Arnetts, the Sherels, and Hoese for a start. They are all kids that had a dream, walked on, and earned scholarships. A great walk on program is built on kids having dreams of playing either, at a particular schoo,l or playing at the top level. As I said we have some just not enough.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

This may be a nice narrative in our minds, and sure everyone can remember the film "Rudy," but that statement romanticizes collegiate sports and teenagers a bit much. It would be one thing if Minnesota was a Florida/Alabama/Ohio State, five-star prestige school.

But it's not.

A lot of kids just want to play when it gets to the point of being a walk-on or a deep reserve. It's a rare kid who wants to go to all of the early morning and evening practices, do all of the hard work, only to never play and get beat up on the scout team, if that. A large portion of kids who ARE already playing all the time don't want to practice all the time.

Most of these kids think, "Why walk-on, be ignored and hope for a scholarship?" when they can go somewhere else and be King *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# on Turd Island.

This year, St. Thomas had four players who started out D-I: Brady Ervin (Iowa State), Tommy Becker (Minnesota), Joe Schafer (Wisconsin) and Curtis James (walk-on at Minnesota).

"Obviously, getting a chance to play was important to me," Schafer told MinnPost about transferring.

What about Shane Potter, who had a scholarship even at the U but left for USD? He was the kid who dreamed about playing for the Gophers. What happened to that dream? Here's what he told the Sioux Falls (S.D.) Argus Leader, "I just couldn't see putting five years into that program and wondering how much I was going to get to play."

Gordy Shaw, then the Gophers offensive line coach and now the offensive coordinator for USD, knew Potter felt as much and talked him in to transferring to USD. "They tried to make him a linebacker," Shaw said in a Star Tribune article. "Shane just saw better things for himself. ... He wanted to play immediately, and he's done that."

Football players want to play football. There are many other places to do so if they aren't going to get clock at the University of Minnesota, which isn't exactly the class of the Big Ten.

Well, this happens all the time. Certain things are important to certain kids, and that is completely understandable. However, when you look at Shafer at St. Thomas, one of his HS teammates was Zach Mottla who decided against the sure thing PT at St. Thomas or St. Johns and decided to give Division 1 a chance. Now, Mottla is on scholarship and will get PT at Division level next season while Schafer is paying for school and playing D3.

This is why the "preferred walk on" program is important at every school. Those are the kids that are told that you might end up with a scholarship and that they think they could end up playing in the Big 10. It is part of recruiting wherever you go. Some places can offer kids more PT, some can offer kids a bigger stage, etc.

There are kids like Shane Potter, Joe Schafer, Tommy Becker where the smaller schools with more PT better served them. There are also the Tow-Arnetts, Mike Rallis, Barrett Moen, and Hoese who are probably ecstatic that they gave Big 10 football a-go.

 

[emann]

emann in the context of your post, explain the Tow-Arnetts, the Sherels, and Hoese for a start. They are all kids that had a dream, walked on, and earned scholarships. A great walk on program is built on kids having dreams of playing either, at a particular schoo,l or playing at the top level. As I said we have some just not enough.

The Tow-Arnetts, the Sherels, and Hoeses are the bulk of a walk-on program that you said wasn't good enough.

You're wondering why there aren't more kids like that in the Gophers program willing to walk on -- the reason is that most kids today aren't like that period, as I pointed out.

The kid who is willing to walk on with the chance at a scholarship is rare in this day and age when you have so many other options where people can play instantly.

 

[WAGopher]

For some players, the free ride is what is important, for others it is playing time. But that's not all of them, if it was, the roster would only have the 85 scholarship players. The media guide shows a roster of 99 players, so the desirability of Minnesota as a walk-on destination does not look totally dire.

In an earlier post I said the Gophers average 105 - 110 rostered players each year. Just to avoid some confusion, the media guide is printed before all players have cleared NCAA, admissions, or enrollment. So there may be additional players added after the Media Guide is printed. As of today, according the official Gopher Football site there are 105 players on the roster:
http://www.gophersports.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=8400&SPID=3280&SPSID=38606

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

The Tow-Arnetts, the Sherels, and Hoeses are the bulk of a walk-on program that you said wasn't good enough.

You're wondering why there aren't more kids like that in the Gophers program willing to walk on -- the reason is that most kids today aren't like that period, as I pointed out.

The kid who is willing to walk on with the chance at a scholarship is rare in this day and age when you have so many other options where people can play instantly.

What do you mean they weren't good enough? Good enough for what?

It isn't quite as rare as you make it seem....

Cameron Botticelli had numerous Division 1AA offers (the Dakotas, Southern Illinois, Northern Iowa).
Mike Rallis had several Divison 1 offers (UNLV, Wyoming) and from a ton of Division 1AA, but he wanted to play in a big conference.
Aaron Hill turned down a few Div.1AA offers
Zach Mottla turned down MIAC, and Air Force offers
AJ Barker had offers from the D2 schools (UMD, St. Cloud St., and a few MIAC schools as well)
This could be said for almost every single walk on at the U (or kid who started as a walk on).

Of the kids that we offer a preferred walk on status to who only are offerred Div 1AA and D2 scholorships, we get an ok percentage of those kids. We won't get all of them and it isn't for every kid. But it certainly is an option that a ton of kids take seriously throughout all of college football. The allure of playing in the Big 10 will always draw some of these kids.

 

[nsmike]

We have 105 kids on the roster, ideally we should have 115 to 125, that's what schools with admired walk on programs have. An extra five walk ons a year would be great.

 

[MNfootballfan]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there a limit on the amount of walk on players that you can have? I thought it was 105, but maybe I am wrong... Anyone know for sure?

 

[nsmike]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there a limit on the amount of walk on players that you can have? I thought it was 105, but maybe I am wrong... Anyone know for sure?

My understanding is that there is an 85 player roster including scholarship players for preseason camp. Once school starts there is no limit.

 

[60's Guy]

I don't know

For some, it's the dream of playing for the Gophers. For others it's just the dream of playing football at a top-level conference. You do have to weigh this against the cost of college. For some, college just isn't an option at all without a scholarship. They have no choice but to take whatever scholarship comes available. For others, college is more affordable, and if they don't wind up winning a scholarship in a year or two, they could always transfer. You can offer someone a chance to walk on, but I can't blame anyone for taking a free ride to college.

I realize the caliber of play in Minnesota's JUCOs is lower than in some states, but does the U ever get any players from our in-state JUCOs?

but didn't Rhys Loyd come from Rochester CC...I don't think there are very many MN junior college football teams are there?

 

[emann]

What do you mean they weren't good enough? Good enough for what?

The previous poster and others were saying the U of M isn't getting enough out of the walk-on program and then after I said why it's hard to get some kids to stay at be preferred walk-ons, people responded with, "What about this guy? What about that guy?"

People are trying to have it both ways.

I'm defending the kids in that the ones who DO walk-on are a rare breed that is willing to work harder than most with no guarantee of a scholarship and the ones who would rather go somewhere else deserve to do whatever they want -- and if that's start four years at a D-II school, good for them. I still believe that most kids are going to pick playing a bunch and being a big man on campus, wherever that may be, rather than walking on at a fringe bowl program.

/next topic

I have to say I've always been taken aback by the amount of influence kids give playing collegiate sports over not playing. Many of my friends/acquaintances from high school that chose to play collegiate sports a lot of the time went to D-II and D-III places they never would have gone before, but wanted to keep playing.

A good friend could have ran track, played football and walked on to play basketball at St. Cloud State, but had no interest. (He beat Thomas Tapeh in the 100M during Tapeh's senior year, could max bench about 300 lbs, could dunk in eighth grade, etc., just a freak athlete.) He had a double major going in college and had the opinion that it didn't make much sense beating himself up on the football field when he wasn't playing for a big-time program/wasn't going to play after school. I'm still impressed that he was able to walk away without really missing it at all.

 

[RodentRampage]

Minnesota has 10 JUCOs that have football.

MCAC – North (Conf., Overall)
Mesabi Range 4-0, 7-3
Northland 3-1, 6-4
Fond du Lac 2-2, 5-4
Itasca 1-3, 2-7
Vermilion 0-4, 0-9

MCAC – South (Conf., Overall)
Central Lakes 5-0, 10-0
Rochester 3-1, 9-1
Minnesota West 1-3, 3-6
M-State 1-3, 3-6
Ridgewater 1-3, 2-7

 

[EG#9]

It seems like Kill is bringing in a number of walk-on candidates this weekend

 

[Sean Lumpkin]

Walk On program started to get a lot better, but those are the kind of guys who rarely make an impact until they were older....

These guys all started as walk ons, i'm not sure what their scholorship status is right now.

Mike Rallis-LB
Zach Mottla - C
AJ Barker - WR
Austin Hahn - DT
Cameron Boticelli -DT/DE
Joey Balthazor - LB (played a lot of special teams)
John Hoese - started as a walk on in Brew's first season
Aaron Hill - LB

Our Walk ON program actually has improved quite a bit and I hope that continues with Kill.

Don't forget Kyle Henderson. He probably had the most PT of all the corners. This kid grew up in North Mpls, 15 minutes from the stadium. Not even a preferred walk-on. I heard he asked if he could tryout for the team.