Kevin Garnett #16 on Bleacher Report Top 100 List

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You will never convince me that if you put KG on the Spurs and Duncan on the wolves, that KG wouldn't be looked at as better.

Gawd, the schit KG played with.

Then give him a few players and he wins it all.
 

Build the statue, make it a weeklong KG celebration, give him the ceremonial keys to the city, bring back Coach on the sidelines, the no-shirt fat guy who paints his chest, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, have spots for Kirby and Prince sitting empty courtside, bring back Steph, Wally, Rasho, Brandon, Ryan Saunders, Flip's wife, and let's hang #21.

Howl KG!!
 

kg21 said:
You will never convince me that if you put KG on the Spurs and Duncan on the wolves, that KG wouldn't be looked at as better.

Gawd, the schit KG played with.

Then give him a few players and he wins it all.
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I take KG over Cant Man any day of the week and twice on Sunday. He was a warrior.
 






GopherWeatherGuy said:
Barring any significant injuries, Ant will surpass KGs accomplishments here. What he has already accomplished far surpasses KG at the same age.
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100%. If healthy, ANT will go down as the greatest Wolf of all time and it won't even be an argument. He's already doubled KG's playoff success and he's only 23.

Howl ANT!!
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
Barring any significant injuries, Ant will surpass KGs accomplishments here. What he has already accomplished far surpasses KG at the same age.
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I respectfully disagree. Yes, he has had more playoff success than KG did with the Wolves for sure, but I'd argue Ant's roster the last 2 seasons was far superior to anything KG had to work with during his time here. I just don't see the fire or desire to win at all costs. If he has a total mindset change, I'll get on board. He should be a relentless slasher taking 3's only to keep the defense honest. Instead, he chooses regularly to settle for step back 3's and other poor shots. Granted he does have an ability to make tough shots, he just takes them far too often. No way a guy with his athleticism and driving ability should lead the league in 3 point attempts. He still has Jokic and Denver along with OKC to contend with the next few years. OKC was more threatened by Jokic almost single handedly than they were with the Wolves. No shame in that, Jokic is incredible. Ant needs to take his game to another level to win big. He won't progress any further with his current game. I hope you are right and I am wrong though. Go Wolves!
 

GopherBlood777 said:
I respectfully disagree. Yes, he has had more playoff success than KG did with the Wolves for sure, but I'd argue Ant's roster the last 2 seasons was far superior to anything KG had to work with during his time here. I just don't see the fire or desire to win at all costs. If he has a total mindset change, I'll get on board. He should be a relentless slasher taking 3's only to keep the defense honest. Instead, he chooses regularly to settle for step back 3's and other poor shots. Granted he does have an ability to make tough shots, he just takes them far too often. No way a guy with his athleticism and driving ability should lead the league in 3 point attempts. He still has Jokic and Denver along with OKC to contend with the next few years. OKC was more threatened by Jokic almost single handedly than they were with the Wolves. No shame in that, Jokic is incredible. Ant needs to take his game to another level to win big. He won't progress any further with his current game. I hope you are right and I am wrong though. Go Wolves!
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I think all of this is correct. But this post of yours is a far cry from "cAnt Man"

Howl Wolves!!
 

BleedGopher said:
I think all of this is correct. But this post of yours is a far cry from "cAnt Man"

Howl Wolves!!
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He's a great individual player, but there are a lot of great individual players. While he had some big games, there were games the Wolves won in spite of a poor performance from him. 0-11 from 3 in a playoff game is not something you should ever see from a player serious about winning. He needs to spend the offseason watching nothing but Michael Jordan film from 88-93.
 

GopherBlood777 said:
I respectfully disagree. Yes, he has had more playoff success than KG did with the Wolves for sure, but I'd argue Ant's roster the last 2 seasons was far superior to anything KG had to work with during his time here. I just don't see the fire or desire to win at all costs. If he has a total mindset change, I'll get on board. He should be a relentless slasher taking 3's only to keep the defense honest. Instead, he chooses regularly to settle for step back 3's and other poor shots. Granted he does have an ability to make tough shots, he just takes them far too often. No way a guy with his athleticism and driving ability should lead the league in 3 point attempts. He still has Jokic and Denver along with OKC to contend with the next few years. OKC was more threatened by Jokic almost single handedly than they were with the Wolves. No shame in that, Jokic is incredible. Ant needs to take his game to another level to win big. He won't progress any further with his current game. I hope you are right and I am wrong though. Go Wolves!
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The Wolves roster around Ant is better than the early KG years but I don't think it's by a significant margin. I also don't understand your gripe with Ant's mentality. He works extremely hard every offseason to improve his game and it shows, and he's always taking accountability about getting better and wanting to win.

I do get frustrated with some of times he shoots 3s instead of driving. That will get better as he grows. But to complain about him as a 3 point shooter in general? That's insane.

Ant made 4.1 3 pointers this season, second to only Steph Curry. Curry shot 39.7%, Ant 39.5%, nearly identical. Ant only made 2.4 3's per game the previous season at 35.7%. So in one season he nearly doubled his 3 pointers made per game, while shooting 4% higher! That's incredible growth of his game and shooting. This was his best season for PPG, eFG%, FT%, and 2nd best season for REBs and ASTs.

The problem with KG is he was never a closer. Some people rightfully have the same complaints about Ant, but I fully believe that will improve. There's a reason most NBA stars don't win a championship until they are 27. KG didn't go to the Western Conference Finals until he was 27. Ant has done it twice before 24.

KG was the 3rd option on a championship team. I believe Ant will win at least one, if not multiple NBA championships as the #1 option. We know who KG was, we are still just scratching the surface with Ant.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
The Wolves roster around Ant is better than the early KG years but I don't think it's by a significant margin. I also don't understand your gripe with Ant's mentality. He works extremely hard every offseason to improve his game and it shows, and he's always taking accountability about getting better and wanting to win.

I do get frustrated with some of times he shoots 3s instead of driving. That will get better as he grows. But to complain about him as a 3 point shooter in general? That's insane.

Ant made 4.1 3 pointers this season, second to only Steph Curry. Curry shot 39.7%, Ant 39.5%, nearly identical. Ant only made 2.4 3's per game the previous season at 35.7%. So in one season he nearly doubled his 3 pointers made per game, while shooting 4% higher! That's incredible growth of his game and shooting. This was his best season for PPG, eFG%, FT%, and 2nd best season for REBs and ASTs.

The problem with KG is he was never a closer. Some people rightfully have the same complaints about Ant, but I fully believe that will improve. There's a reason most NBA stars don't win a championship until they are 27. KG didn't go to the Western Conference Finals until he was 27. Ant has done it twice before 24.

KG was the 3rd option on a championship team. I believe Ant will win at least one, if not multiple NBA championships as the #1 option. We know who KG was, we are still just scratching the surface with Ant.
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I respect your faith in Ant and he has plenty of time to mature. In the interviews I've seen with him this year it doesn't seem he is interested in doing that currently. Specifically when he was asked about taking too many 3's. He doesn't see it as a problem. I don't deny he's a great player, but I think he is holding himself back right now because he wants to play like Steph Curry instead of Anthony Edwards. KG had some solid players in his time, but nothing as deep as this year's team. The Wolves roster is stacked right now and is far better than the team KG took to the conference finals. I don't see this organization putting together a better team around Ant anytime soon.
 

GopherBlood777 said:
I respect your faith in Ant and he has plenty of time to mature. In the interviews I've seen with him this year it doesn't seem he is interested in doing that currently. Specifically when he was asked about taking too many 3's. He doesn't see it as a problem. I don't deny he's a great player, but I think he is holding himself back right now because he wants to play like Steph Curry instead of Anthony Edwards. KG had some solid players in his time, but nothing as deep as this year's team. The Wolves roster is stacked right now and is far better than the team KG took to the conference finals. I don't see this organization putting together a better team around Ant anytime soon.
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He's not taking too many 3's, it's not a problem. He's shooting nearly 40%. Timing of the 3s is the only problem at times, but part of that is he's getting double and triple teamed.

He is still playing like Anthony Edwards, just with a better 3 point shot. The early KG teams were built on defense 1st too, just like these ones. KAT/Randle are better 2nd options then what KG had but the league was different then too with a lot less scoring. Terrell Brandon, Wally, Chauncey Billups, Sprewell, Cassell, etc were all good options.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
He's not taking too many 3's, it's not a problem. He's shooting nearly 40%. Timing of the 3s is the only problem at times, but part of that is he's getting double and triple teamed.

He is still playing like Anthony Edwards, just with a better 3 point shot. The early KG teams were built on defense 1st too, just like these ones. KAT/Randle are better 2nd options then what KG had but the league was different then too with a lot less scoring. Terrell Brandon, Wally, Chauncey Billups, Sprewell, Cassell, etc were all good options.
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28% on 8 attempts per game in the conference finals. Not sustainable. OKC does have elite team defense, so I can cut some slack, but OKC isn't going anywhere anytime soon. You can pull that stuff in the regular season when there is next to zero defense being played on most nights. It doesn't work on the biggest stage. On KG's best team with Sprewell and Cassell, old Sam was at the end of his career ableit still productive and Sprewell was out of the league within 2 seasons.
 

GopherBlood777 said:
I respect your faith in Ant and he has plenty of time to mature. In the interviews I've seen with him this year it doesn't seem he is interested in doing that currently. Specifically when he was asked about taking too many 3's. He doesn't see it as a problem. I don't deny he's a great player, but I think he is holding himself back right now because he wants to play like Steph Curry instead of Anthony Edwards. KG had some solid players in his time, but nothing as deep as this year's team. The Wolves roster is stacked right now and is far better than the team KG took to the conference finals. I don't see this organization putting together a better team around Ant anytime soon.
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this is such a confusing take.

Finch is on record saying he wants Ant to take more 3s because of what the NBA has become (in terms basically every tracking metric in that you should only take 3s or dunks). He got better shooting 3s because he worked his ass off at it. He was a mediocre to bad 3 pt shooter in college (29.4% on 7.7 attempts a game) who was similarly mediocre his first year. the percentage he shot this year was higher than what Reggie Miller shot over his career. He works hard and did what Finch asked him to do. People read into the him saying he doesn't lift or whatever or take that like he's not constantly in the gym and plays constantly (he eats like trash/a teenager is his only real problem from a dedication standpoint imo which is going to be a longevity thing if he wants to be like Lebron).

Ant creates this dichotomy because of how damn easy he makes it when he goes to the hoop that we all sit here and say while why don't you just do that every time? OKC took it away crashing down inside, Julius effectively disappeared and was benched, and you had no one else who could create forcing Ant to take awful shots. That's a team failing much more so than an Ant failing imo.

If you want Ant to play like MJ, you need to change the roster to look like what Luka plays around in a rim rolling big coupled with 3 3 and D guards/forwards to play beside him. This roster would get murdered with Ant trying to play iso ball and shooting midrange 2s (as does pretty much every NBA team now unless they let your star shoot 10 FTs a night and everyone else can shoot it a la OKC).
 

upnorthkid said:
this is such a confusing take.

Finch is on record saying he wants Ant to take more 3s because of what the NBA has become (in terms basically every tracking metric in that you should only take 3s or dunks). He got better shooting 3s because he worked his ass off at it. He was a mediocre to bad 3 pt shooter in college (29.4% on 7.7 attempts a game) who was similarly mediocre his first year. the percentage he shot this year was higher than what Reggie Miller shot over his career. He works hard and did what Finch asked him to do. People read into the him saying he doesn't lift or whatever or take that like he's not constantly in the gym and plays constantly (he eats like trash/a teenager is his only real problem from a dedication standpoint imo which is going to be a longevity thing if he wants to be like Lebron).

Ant creates this dichotomy because of how damn easy he makes it when he goes to the hoop that we all sit here and say while why don't you just do that every time? OKC took it away crashing down inside, Julius effectively disappeared and was benched, and you had no one else who could create forcing Ant to take awful shots. That's a team failing much more so than an Ant failing imo.

If you want Ant to play like MJ, you need to change the roster to look like what Luka plays around in a rim rolling big coupled with 3 3 and D guards/forwards to play beside him. This roster would get murdered with Ant trying to play iso ball and shooting midrange 2s (as does pretty much every NBA team now unless they let your star shoot 10 FTs a night and everyone else can shoot it a la OKC).
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Sorry, I should have just said Jordan 90-93 then. They were not playing Iso in the triangle. His strength is slashing despite what the rest of the league is doing. Ant could probably shoot 50% from behind the arc if he only took 5-6 quality 3's each game. Maybe Finch just needs adjust his gameplan to suit the strengths of his players. Every team trying to be GSW is why the league is mostly unwatchable. If he wants longevity like LeFlop, then he needs to start taking PED's ASAP. I never said anything about Ant from a physical or skill stand point. With him it's all mindset/IQ. He has all the physical tools already.
 

GopherBlood777 said:
Sorry, I should have just said Jordan 90-93 then. They were not playing Iso in the triangle. His strength is slashing despite what the rest of the league is doing. Ant could probably shoot 50% from behind the arc if he only took 5-6 quality 3's each game. Maybe Finch just needs adjust his gameplan to suit the strengths of his players. Every team trying to be GSW is why the league is mostly unwatchable. If he wants longevity like LeFlop, then he needs to start taking PED's ASAP. I never said anything about Ant from a physical or skill stand point. With him it's all mindset/IQ. He has all the physical tools already.
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then your issue is with Finch, not Ant. He's doing what's asked and even when he was getting fried by the media for making the right play passing, he still takes it in stride of trying to execute the gameplan.

On Ant shooting a better percentage, have said it a million times, but Finch needs to draw him up plays like they draw up Curry where he can come off screens. For as crazily fast and powerful as he is, why they don't pindown for him 5-6 times a game is just silly unless the rest of the guys are not good screeners. Someone having to chase and close hard on Ant is such a massive advantage for the Wolves and they almost never do it.

On the PED comment, Lebron spends millions every year on his recovery, diet, etc. Ant (and every NBA superstar) should do the same.

Ant 100% is best slashing. Ant also knows that and is why he does it. That's also why playing him with Rudy is such a clusterfuck, especially if you also have another meh 3pt shooter on the floor or can't play him off ball to get it on the catch. Don't really know what the front office is thinking running this back as the roster as constructed isn't beating OKC unless Dilly, Clark, etc. figure it out in a major way.

All that to say, this really doesn't feel like you're cAnt man is an Ant problem.

And lastly, back to KG. Dude should have a statue outside Target Center. Ant will probably surpass what KG did here because of many factors and that KGs clinching parts of his legacy were achieved elsewhere.
 

upnorthkid said:
then your issue is with Finch, not Ant. He's doing what's asked and even when he was getting fried by the media for making the right play passing, he still takes it in stride of trying to execute the gameplan.

On Ant shooting a better percentage, have said it a million times, but Finch needs to draw him up plays like they draw up Curry where he can come off screens. For as crazily fast and powerful as he is, why they don't pindown for him 5-6 times a game is just silly unless the rest of the guys are not good screeners. Someone having to chase and close hard on Ant is such a massive advantage for the Wolves and they almost never do it.

On the PED comment, Lebron spends millions every year on his recovery, diet, etc. Ant (and every NBA superstar) should do the same.

Ant 100% is best slashing. Ant also knows that and is why he does it. That's also why playing him with Rudy is such a clusterfuck, especially if you also have another meh 3pt shooter on the floor or can't play him off ball to get it on the catch. Don't really know what the front office is thinking running this back as the roster as constructed isn't beating OKC unless Dilly, Clark, etc. figure it out in a major way.

All that to say, this really doesn't feel like you're cAnt man is an Ant problem.

And lastly, back to KG. Dude should have a statue outside Target Center. Ant will probably surpass what KG did here because of many factors and that KGs clinching parts of his legacy were achieved elsewhere.
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Reasonable points, maybe Finch should be fired as the OKC series demonstrated how far away they are still as you stated. LeBron has been taking steroids since he was in Miami 100%. It's not even debatable at this point.
 

GopherBlood777 said:
Reasonable points, maybe Finch should be fired as the OKC series demonstrated how far away they are still as you stated. LeBron has been taking steroids since he was in Miami 100%. It's not even debatable at this point.
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you and Jeff Teague should start a podcast
 

upnorthkid said:
you and Jeff Teague should start a podcast
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Maybe Garnett too as he has echoed similar sentiments. Along with Savanah James and Ernest Mihms being clients of biogenisys. There are more than enough dots to connect at this point. Remember when Lance Armstrong wasn't taking steroids? Until it was proven he was. Derrick Rose said in 2011 that PEDs were a huge issue in the NBA. To just assume it's not happening is naive at best. Last comment on this since it's off topic.
 


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