Just asking....

It means nothing. 9-5...8-5...it's Northwestern. This is our benchmark? This is how we want to measure ourselves?
Well, one is right and one is wrong. I don't think falling back on "it's basically the same thing" really flys when it comes to facts, especially super duper easy ones. Would have been just as easy to quote the correct, factual, record and say wow. I mean, unless the quote function is harder to use that way or something. As for a benchmark, no, I do not think that this is the benchmark. Still doesn't mean you shouldn't try to use the correct factual info.
 

goldengophers said:
haha, if I had to venture a guess somewhere north of .437 (B1G) in Dan Monson's last 5 years. Tubby's first 5 years are .437 (B1G).

That's the point. The school, the president, the AD, and every individual fan could have a different interpretation of what is "far beyond" monson and if he was even hired for that purpose. Maybe he was hired just to take it "beyond" Monson? And who knows what the heck just "beyond Monson" even means to each person?

Some would say 9-5 vs NU is "far beyond" 6-7. Some might say 14-0 is "far beyond" 6-7. Some may even say 7-7 is "far beyond" 6-7.

It is all about how each person views the same stats and the same numbers and the same results. I don't think interpreting "far beyond" differently (and not saying you did this, just speaking generally) changes the level of someone's fandom or their acceptance or unacceptable of mediocrity.
 

Well, one is right and one is wrong. I don't think falling back on "it's basically the same thing" really flys when it comes to facts, especially super duper easy ones. Would have been just as easy to quote the correct, factual, record and say wow. I mean, unless the quote function is harder to use that way or something. As for a benchmark, no, I do not think that this is the benchmark. Still doesn't mean you shouldn't try to use the correct factual info.

I agree, the OP obviously forgot the tournament win. So, technically he would be right if he said "in conferecne" but he didn't. Either way, the error doesn't change the context of the discussion or how it relates to Tubby's performance. he has handled NW.
 

I agree, the OP obviously forgot the tournament win. So, technically he would be right if he said "in conferecne" but he didn't. Either way, the error doesn't change the context of the discussion or how it relates to Tubby's performance. he has handled NW.

Um, wha? It's rupert's fault that you quoted the factually incorrect stat? Also glad to see you're a mind reader and knew what he really meant. Which is hilarious because your helpful psychic take on what he really meant is still factually incorrect. What do I mean? Well, the tourney games count as "in conference" by virtue of the fact that it is a CONFERENCE tournament. The spin you're looking for is "conference regular season games". And guess what? That still doesn't fly because the Gophers have faced Northwestern 4 TIMES in the BTT under Tubby, the other W's and L's of which were already included in the 8-5 number. Any other incorrect arguments you'd like to try?

8-5 versus 9-5 may not drastically change the context of the overall record versus Northwestern, but it does shine an interesting light on your ability to work with facts and details.
 

Um, wha? It's rupert's fault that you quoted the factually incorrect stat? Also glad to see you're a mind reader and knew what he really meant. Which is hilarious because your helpful psychic take on what he really meant is still factually incorrect. What do I mean? Well, the tourney games count as "in conference" by virtue of the fact that it is a CONFERENCE tournament. The spin you're looking for is "conference regular season games". And guess what? That still doesn't fly because the Gophers have faced Northwestern 4 TIMES in the BTT under Tubby, the other W's and L's of which were already included in the 8-5 number. Any other incorrect arguments you'd like to try?

8-5 versus 9-5 may not drastically change the context of the overall record versus Northwestern, but it does shine an interesting light on your ability to work with facts and details.
Ah christ! In my best Robin Williams golf accent
 


Um, wha? It's rupert's fault that you quoted the factually incorrect stat? Also glad to see you're a mind reader and knew what he really meant. Which is hilarious because your helpful psychic take on what he really meant is still factually incorrect. What do I mean? Well, the tourney games count as "in conference" by virtue of the fact that it is a CONFERENCE tournament. The spin you're looking for is "conference regular season games". And guess what? That still doesn't fly because the Gophers have faced Northwestern 4 TIMES in the BTT under Tubby, the other W's and L's of which were already included in the 8-5 number. Any other incorrect arguments you'd like to try?

8-5 versus 9-5 may not drastically change the context of the overall record versus Northwestern, but it does shine an interesting light on your ability to work with facts and details.

No, it shines a light on what is important to you. Forget the arguments context and focus on a clerical error that really makes little difference in the discussion. He was right to point out the error, but then move on to the point which is who cares, it's just NW. Tell you what, you focus on the error and pat yourself on the back for that, I'll stick to the point of the thread and whether or not our NW record reflects how much better a coach is than Monson who had scholarships limitations and sanctions to contend with. Carry on.
 

No, it shines a light on what is important to you. Forget the arguments context and focus on a clerical error that really makes little difference in the discussion. He was right to point out the error, but then move on to the point which is who cares, it's just NW. Tell you what, you focus on the error and pat yourself on the back for that, I'll stick to the point of the thread and whether or not our NW record reflects how much better a coach is than Monson who had scholarships limitations and sanctions to contend with. Carry on.

Remind us all again why Monson gets to use excuses and Tubby does not.
 

No, it shines a light on what is important to you. Forget the arguments context and focus on a clerical error that really makes little difference in the discussion. He was right to point out the error, but then move on to the point which is who cares, it's just NW. Tell you what, you focus on the error and pat yourself on the back for that, I'll stick to the point of the thread and whether or not our NW record reflects how much better a coach is than Monson who had scholarships limitations and sanctions to contend with. Carry on.

Hmmm...did you read this part of my first response?
As for a benchmark, no, I do not think that this is the benchmark.

I answered your question about context and agreed that this isn't the number we want. I did not ignore it to focus on a "clerical error."

In response to that you tried to spin the already factually incorrect number into being "technically" correct. Something that you still failed to do. Facts are inconvenient things like that.

I was more amused when you first quoted the already debunked number and frankly, was just trying to tweak you a bit. But you're the one who just took it into a whole new level of spin by trying to make the already debunked fact work for you.

To recap:
- You quote incorrect stat
- I quote you and point it out
- You respond and say it mean's nothing and ask about context.
- I (admittedly) focus the "nothing" comment about facts when you prob meant it about the wider context. I also respond to your question and agree with you that it isn't the record we want.
- You then take what is basically agreement to your question and then try to spin the already debunked fact into being correct. You fail miserably.
- I point out how silly your attempt is
- You ignore my previous response to your question and try to blame me for you getting called out

And to think, all this could be avoided if you knew how to quote the correct stat!
 

Well in all fairness to NW they have elevated their program in the last five years, so if you think of the cays in their current context and not in their historical one than I would say 9-5 is respectable, if we were 9-5 against more teams in the conference it wouldn't be an issue. 9-5 is what 63% if that was Tubby's winning percentage in conference play than he wold have a lifetime contract
 



What would be your strategy to improve against the 1-3-1, which is the question posed in this thread? Let's stay on topic...

I would do exactly what we did against them in the B1G tourney. They got out of the 1-3-1 pretty quickly because we were pretty successful against it.
 


Ah, because he didn't have sanctions and scholarship taken away???

So what? Monson had detriments outside of his control, just as Tubby has had detriments outside of his control. Out one side of your mouth, you say "Tubby has a better record than Monson, but he had scholarship reductions." While out of the other side of your mouth, you pretend that the devastating injuries suffered each of the last two seasons are inconsequential and should've had no effect on Minnesota's record. There are two options: you are seriously trying to argue that the injuries are somehow Tubby's fault, or you are an agenda-driven d1ckhead who gives Tubby no free passes on anything while cranking up the excuse meter for every facet of Monson's failure to perform. So which is it?
 

So what? Monson had detriments outside of his control, just as Tubby has had detriments outside of his control. Out one side of your mouth, you say "Tubby has a better record than Monson, but he had scholarship reductions." While out of the other side of your mouth, you pretend that the devastating injuries suffered each of the last two seasons are inconsequential and should've had no effect on Minnesota's record. There are two options: you are seriously trying to argue that the injuries are somehow Tubby's fault, or you are an agenda-driven d1ckhead who gives Tubby no free passes on anything while cranking up the excuse meter for every facet of Monson's failure to perform. So which is it?

they have both sucked at Minnesota, so what's the point?
 



So what? Monson had detriments outside of his control, just as Tubby has had detriments outside of his control. Out one side of your mouth, you say "Tubby has a better record than Monson, but he had scholarship reductions." While out of the other side of your mouth, you pretend that the devastating injuries suffered each of the last two seasons are inconsequential and should've had no effect on Minnesota's record. There are two options: you are seriously trying to argue that the injuries are somehow Tubby's fault, or you are an agenda-driven d1ckhead who gives Tubby no free passes on anything while cranking up the excuse meter for every facet of Monson's failure to perform. So which is it?

I never said that injuries had no effect on Tubby's record. I'm not dumb. I have said consistently, that we would have been 9-9 or around there with TM. I have also said big f'in deal. I expect more in year 5 than a 6-12 team when one player gets hurt. There should be more depth than to finish with 6 wins and two of them against Nebraska. I have also said I don't give Tubby a pass fore the transfers. It is his job to keep players. It's his job to win. 5 years and not one top half finish doesn't cut it sorry.
 

they have both sucked at Minnesota, so what's the point?

Treat both with equal consideration. If you're going to make excuses for one, make excuses for both. If one doesn't get any free passes for things outside of his control, you damn sure don't get to "but, but, but..." away all the shortcomings of the other. This really is not that complicated.
 

I don't disagree, but the bottom line is that they have both sucked!
 

I have also said Monson should have been fired. I was thrilled when they fired him and thrilled when Tubby got hired. Monson did good work to get the team on good footing after a disaster. He plateaued and deserves to be fired. I have, in fact, not even called for Tubby to get fired. I have called for no extension. None until he wins or gets fired.
 

I never said that injuries had no effect on Tubby's record. I'm not dumb. I have said consistently, that we would have been 9-9 or around there with TM. I have also said big f'in deal. I expect more in year 5 than a 6-12 team when one player gets hurt. There should be more depth than to finish with 6 wins and two of them against Nebraska. I have also said I don't give Tubby a pass fore the transfers. It is his job to keep players. It's his job to win. 5 years and not one top half finish doesn't cut it sorry.

Goddamn, you're so disingenuous. Just pretend that the best Gophers player in many years is just "one player". You're pathetic. You'll go out of your way to destroy Tubby on everything, and excuse Monson's worse performance away while calling him a great coach. The truly sad part is that you're pretending to just "call 'em as you see 'em" while anyone can see your double standard and vitriolic hatred of Tubby Smith. I'd have some respect for you if you'd just admit it (as opposed to the zero I have now), but of course you won't, so the charade must continue.
 

Goddamn, you're so disingenuous. Just pretend that the best Gophers player in many years is just "one player". You're pathetic. You'll go out of your way to destroy Tubby on everything, and excuse Monson's worse performance away while calling him a great coach. The truly sad part is that you're pretending to just "call 'em as you see 'em" while anyone can see your double standard and vitriolic hatred of Tubby Smith. I'd have some respect for you if you'd just admit it (as opposed to the zero I have now), but of course you won't, so the charade must continue.

Please define "many" in terms of number of years!!!!
 

Please define "many" in terms of number of years!!!!

Please name the last player who you feel was better than TM.

I would say maybe Humphries? Although in the context of a team (especially this one) I would rather have Trevor than the year Kris had
 

Please name the last player who you feel was better than TM.

I would say maybe Humphries? Although in the context of a team (especially this one) I would rather have Trevor than the year Kris had

Vincent Grier
 

I don't disagree, but the bottom line is that they have both sucked!
I'm not real happy with where we're at in year 5, but sucked compared to what? Tubby is performing at the historical average of the program. A select group of coaches have, on a very limited basis, performed better than what he's doing now. And 2 of them cheated to do it. The issue is that he isn't getting paid to perform at the historical average for the program.
 

How many times you see the 1-3-1 should be the question. Preparation for the 1-3-1 would be proportional. Its a great defense, relying on a lot of discipline as well as the right players to deploy it. I don't think any team will get crazy preparing for it. Against you have to have really active players without the ball, as with any zone, there are open spots on the floor, you need to get to it and rotate the ball quickly. Skip passes are abundant when playing against it.
 

I'm not real happy with where we're at in year 5, but sucked compared to what? Tubby is performing at the historical average of the program. A select group of coaches have, on a very limited basis, performed better than what he's doing now. And 2 of them cheated to do it. The issue is that he isn't getting paid to perform at the historical average for the program.
I agree but let's call it like it is, Tubby's conference record sits at .437 to an average over the program's life of .482...I believe the lst 50 years are a bit north of that (on the phone). Either way we agree that he's being paid (as of time of hiring, lack of pay bump due to performance) to perform above his current win% and the avg of the program. If Mbakwe is back for a full year next year we should be above both and hopefully in the Tourny.
 

Vincent Grier

You would take Grier's line of 16.8 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 44.8 Field % over Mbakwe's 13.9, 9.9 rpg and 59.3 Field %? Not to mention Mbakwe's defense? Who knows where Mbakwe's stats would of been this year. But I guess according to minngg, players don't progress in college so it's safe to assume that Mbakwe's #'s would've been the same this year....
 

The Gophers still struggle against zones in general. LaSalle threw a couple zone looks at them last night, and I noticed hesitation and missed opportunities. A couple times our players tried to beat the zone with perimeter screens, and that's just not going to do the job. Once we had Rodney wide open at the elbow in position to accept an easy pass and, in turn, hit a cutter, and our point guard simply declined to make the pass. We do need to get better at recognition.
 

Ah, because he didn't have sanctions and scholarship taken away???

Yeah he had 5 Scholarships taken away in the first three seasons. What explains the lack of success of the last 5 seasons under Monson?
 

Ruppert, do you actually watch the games or just remember all the negative things people say on here after losses?
Yup, Watched the whole Northwestern/Akron game. You love to read something that isn't there zambam. I aked the question on the 1-3-1 giving 3 criteria to chose from. I've formed my own conclusions on why Akron had a realtively easy time with it even though Northwestern used it for about half the game. Minnesota beat the Cats at home, although in the second half Northwestern went with the 1-3-1 and it gave us problems. That manifested itself when we played and lost to Northwestern at their place. We did handle it better in the tourney game which you would expect after the other two previous games. If you tape the games, you may want to go back and look at the them and then maybe you'll will understand why I posed the QUESTION, Not an OPINON.
 

Watched the whole Northwestern/Akron game.

I think he was asking if you'd bothered to watch the Gophers/Northwestern games.

Minnesota beat the Cats at home, although in the second half Northwestern went with the 1-3-1 and it gave us problems.
You mean the half where we started leading by 17, never led by less than 14, and spent most of it leading by 20 before ultimately winning by 23? I think we'd all take struggling performances like that on a regular basis.

That manifested itself when we played and lost to Northwestern at their place.

You know what also manifested itself that game? A completely different team in terms of energy and execution in all facets of the game. Not just the zone offense.
 

haha, if I had to venture a guess somewhere north of .437 (B1G) in Dan Monson's last 5 years. Tubby's first 5 years are .437 (B1G).

That's a bit misleading, as you've completely eliminated the 2006-07 Big Ten record off of that . Just because Monson wasn't here to absorb a 3-13 mark doesn't mean Tubby didn't inherit a team that went 3-13.

Gopher Big Ten record 5 yrs prior to Smith's arrival: 29-51 (.362) (1 NCAA)
Gopher Big Ten record 5 yrs after Smiths arrival: 38-49 (.437) (2 NCAA)

While I agree that .437 has not met expectations and has been somewhat disappointing, it is about ten games better than the five previous seasons, which included two abysmal 3-13's.
 




Top Bottom