Juco QB

[Winasota Gopher]

He's been named a 2015 captain as a Jr.

He just lead this team to the best year in Kill's time here, including road wins at Michigan and Nebraska, and a near perfect game against Iowa.

He did so even though he played through a sprained MCL and turf toe

He also ran for 500 yards and 10 TDs this season which regardless of what some fans think, is a priority for this staff's QBs.

He lead the program in offseason conditioning and keeping teammates accountable and was so good at it that Kill described in glowing terms his leadership all last winter and spring. As a sophomore.


I really think you folks need to calm down and be patient with the passing game.

In a perfect world we'd have had depth built up at QB and WR, this simply wasn't reality for a variety of reasons, some possibly on the coaches, some definitely not. Going forward it's hard to convince myself that the coaching staff won't add talent and depth to those positions just like they have at every other position since they've been here.
Look at almost all of our transfers since Kill's arrived. They've nearly all been WRs and QBs. Barker(Baby), Shortell(Scheme fit), Moulton(Grades?), Tufts(Drugs?), Harris(Stole stuff), McDonald(Drugs), Nelson(Wanted guaranteed start), and Harbison(Homesick).
I will assume the staff put their foot down and redshirted all those WR's, and 2 QBs this year to put and end to this and develop guys who can catch and throw the ball.

By the time Mitch is a senior either they'll have things fixed and he improves like you would expect, or he could easily be a redzone changeup run threat if someone else emerges. He'll likely break the all time gopher record for career QB rushing TDs here.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

I'm right in the middle of this debate. I feel like I'm a realist.

I agree with the Mitch haters that he isn't a good drop back quarterback and we need someone to be better than that for us to take the next step.
I agree with the Mitch lovers that he isn't a terrible fit for this team.
I agree with logic that someone better than Mitch isn't going to fall out of the sky and land in our laps a la Russell Wilson
I agree with the Minnesota way that I want someone to fall out of the sky and land in our lap a la Russell Wilson
I agree with the internet that it's not a crime to be critical of deficient parts of our program
I agree with the common sense that just because I think Mitch could improve, doesn't mean I think he's terrible, nor does it mean that I think we could/should bring in his backup and get better results.

I believe that us winning and Mitch not being the best QB ever can happen at the same time, and I believe I should be able to state those things without being called a hater or a lover.

I believe we are in a much better spot than last year, same as the year before and the year before that. I believe that next year we will be deeper and more talented.

I believe, that .....

We.

Will.

WIN!!!!!!!!

A Big 10 Championship in my lifetime. (I'm 30)

 

[Mulligan]

Ignore the stats.

Look at what Mitch demonstrably can and cannot do.

Mitch cannot complete a pass from a three step drop--or anything at that speed.

He just can't.

Many offenses are built around this tempo, but we can't even threaten to do this.

Do you knuckleheads realize what a bonus this is to an opposing defensive coordinator? They can ignore fully 30% of the preparation they'd usually spend on a team!!

For the record, I really love Mitch and enjoy rooting for him.

You would also have to be a knucklehead to keep bitching about an offensive coordinator's conservative play calling when he can't run 30% of the usual stuff. I think you're right about Mitch, but you can't have it both ways.

 

[Rescooter]

Facilities are coming, Kill has been in design meetings. Ground will be broken in April/May.

I thought he was in Lincoln!

Great to hear that some of the alumni and local companies are stepping up.

 

[BarnBoy]

The coaching staff seems to way too much in love with Leidner to even consider a Junior College QB

There would have been absolutely nothing to gain for Kill to throw Leidner under the bus this year. I think the staff has proven that the best players will play. (e.g. Cobb over Kirkwoodland)

I wouldn't confuse their public praise of Leidner over the last few months as an indication that he's locked in for the next two years. There just wasn't an alternative to him.

 

[cjbfbp]

Mitch is a winner but is not pretty doing it. We don't have a passing offense because we do not have any play makers except Williams and May. There many great quarterbacks that can't pass but their targets make them. If we had a drop back guy who had no legs this year, we would not be 8 and 4. Everyone loves a pure gunslinger but that is not always the answer. We need to keep running and establishing a dominate O line and with people that are going to play next year, give Mitch a little more time and better targets.

Well, as an example, just look at Rudock at Iowa and Illinois was worse after Wes Lunt's return than it was when it went back to O'Toole.

Mitch just needs to improve his passing by a reasonable amount to be a pretty effective all around quarterback next year. This year he averaged 9.2 completions in 18.7 attempts per game (49%). If he could improve that completion average to 11 per game he would be at 58% and that might be enough to prolong one or two more drives per game.

 

[Spoofin]

There would have been absolutely nothing to gain for Kill to throw Leidner under the bus this year. I think the staff has proven that the best players will play. (e.g. Cobb over Kirkwoodland)

I wouldn't confuse their public praise of Leidner over the last few months as an indication that he's locked in for the next two years. There just wasn't an alternative to him.

This post is logical and spot on. However, it will be missed by most on here.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I swear some people on this board think that, with a different QB, the Gophers would be undefeated. If we just didn't have Leidner at QB, the DB's would never blow a coverage or get called for interference; the DT's would sack the opposing QB on every play; the WR's would be wide open on every route and never drop a ball; and the other team would never surprise the Gophs with an offensive or defensive scheme that they weren't expecting.

Look - Leidner is inconsistent, but he is not the only issue with this team. This is a process. The Gophers were a better team this year, and assuming no changes in the coaching staff, I expect them to show more improvement next year. I know this is a "I want it now" society - but some things you just can't rush. The Gopher FB program did not fall apart in a day - it took several years of mis-management. And those problems will not be fixed in a day. I just don't like seeing people make Leidner the scapegoat.

 

[Spoofin]

I swear some people on this board think that, with a different QB, the Gophers would be undefeated. If we just didn't have Leidner at QB, the DB's would never blow a coverage or get called for interference; the DT's would sack the opposing QB on every play; the WR's would be wide open on every route and never drop a ball; and the other team would never surprise the Gophs with an offensive or defensive scheme that they weren't expecting.

Look - Leidner is inconsistent, but he is not the only issue with this team. This is a process. The Gophers were a better team this year, and assuming no changes in the coaching staff, I expect them to show more improvement next year. I know this is a "I want it now" society - but some things you just can't rush. The Gopher FB program did not fall apart in a day - it took several years of mis-management. And those problems will not be fixed in a day. I just don't like seeing people make Leidner the scapegoat.

This post is logical and spot on. However, it will be missed by most on here.

 

[MNGoldenGophers1]

This post is logical and spot on. However, it will be missed by most on here.

After the whole AJ thing I was thinking the same thing in that Kill clearly like to play favorites.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I think it will be very difficult for a JuCo QB to beat out Leidner.

I can't understand why some people think it is so offensive to Mitch to talk about our lack of a passing game. It isn't entirely on Mitch's shoulders and it isn't minimizing everything he has done for the program. He is a tough guy, he is a winner, he's a good runner and I'm glad he's on our side.

That said, we struggled throwing the ball down the field. If the staff doesn't look at ways to improve that part of our offense, they'd be stubborn. Maybe there isn't a JuCo or Sr. Transfer out there who could help us, and if that's the case, I'm fine with moving on without adding another QB. Maybe that added dimension comes from Perra. I don't know.

Mitch is a tough guy, I don't think he'd shrink because we brought a little competition/depth.

 

[FreakyDeke]

I swear some people on this board think that, with a different QB, the Gophers would be undefeated.

I have no doubt that the Gophers would have beaten Illinois and at least 1, probably both, of OSU and WI if JT Barrett was QB.

 

[John Galt]

I have no doubt that the Gophers would have beaten Illinois and at least 1, probably both, of OSU and WI if JT Barrett was QB.

And I have no doubt that if Travone Boykin was our QB, we would be no worse than 11-1 right now...

Joking aside, if Mitch had the accuracy and release speed of Trevor Siemian, we would be 9-2. But what gets overlooked is that even though Mitch struggles mightily as a passer, he's a tough runner and that dimension of our offense paid dividends this year. I guess that I'm not convinced (as I once was) that an average passing QB who can't run would make us better than Mitch...

 

[Ole]

And I have no doubt that if Travone Boykin was our QB, we would be no worse than 11-1 right now...

Joking aside, if Mitch had the accuracy and release speed of Trevor Siemian, we would be 9-2. But what gets overlooked is that even though Mitch struggles mightily as a passer, he's a tough runner and that dimension of our offense paid dividends this year. I guess that I'm not convinced (as I once was) that an average passing QB who can't run would make us better than Mitch...

Siemian Senior 5-7
Passing
228 392 2214 58.2 5.65 60 7 11
Rushing
68 -123 -1.8 16 5
Leidner Soph 8-4
Passing
101 206 49.0 1540 7.5 10 53 8
Rushing
117 462 3.9 31 10

Leidner also had a better passer rating than Siemian.
The kid is better than we think he is, he just doesn't fit the normal mold of a passing QB most casual fans expect.

 

[John Galt]

Siemian Senior 5-7
Passing
228 392 2214 58.2 5.65 60 7 11
Rushing
68 -123 -1.8 16 5
Leidner Soph 8-4
Passing
101 206 49.0 1540 7.5 10 53 8
Rushing
117 462 3.9 31 10

Leidner also had a better passer rating than Siemian.
The kid is better than we think he is, he just doesn't fit the normal mold of a passing QB most casual fans expect.

I hear you, but stats can be deceiving. NW asks Siemian to make a lot of throws our staff would never ask of Mitch. Just from the eyeball test, would you really not trade Mitch's passing and decision-making ability for Siemian's?

 

[Gopher07]

If we had someone the caliber of Cam Newton or Bo Wallace or Jake Waters walk into the program from the juco ranks, the team would likely have more wins. There are not a lot of players the caliber of Cam Newton or Bo Wallace or Jake Waters waiting to walk into our program, however. That said, if there's a better option out there, we need to explore it.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

Haters. Mitch's numbers were terrible. But he won games for us. He was like Tebow for the Broncos.
And he was greatly improved as the season progressed.

I expect there to be competition for the job. And I expect Mitch will improve yet again.

So you're predicting that Mitch's career will be cut short and he will fall off the face of the earth and never be heard from again in his respective league?

And then be replaced by a future hall of famer? I like your thinking. Sounds like you're predicting Braxton Miller in a Gopher jersey.

 

[upnorthkid]

Siemian Senior 5-7
Passing
228 392 2214 58.2 5.65 60 7 11
Rushing
68 -123 -1.8 16 5
Leidner Soph 8-4
Passing
101 206 49.0 1540 7.5 10 53 8
Rushing
117 462 3.9 31 10

Leidner also had a better passer rating than Siemian.
The kid is better than we think he is, he just doesn't fit the normal mold of a passing QB most casual fans expect.

all I'd point out is that OP was saying that he'd take the accuracy and release speed, not the total package. Mitch with Siemian's accuracy and release would be a very dangerous weapon as Mitch (mostly) seems to get to the read, he's just 2-3 steps too late getting the ball out which is the difference between a completion and an easy breakup or a pass that he has to pull down (ie why he takes so flippin many sacks).

 

[Ole]

I hear you, but stats can be deceiving. NW asks Siemian to make a lot of throws our staff would never ask of Mitch. Just from the eyeball test, would you really not trade Mitch's passing and decision-making ability for Siemian's?

I wouldn't trade players straight up.
NW has had some great QBs, Siemian is not one of them.
Against similar opponents Siemian was awful. His MN game was the best of his season and he lead his team to 17 points.

 

[SamSquatch]

I guess the question is: Have we seen Leidner's ceiling?

If not, we can hope to continue to improve as an offense. I think that if Leidner's off-season passing work is significant, he can still be an asset on a multi-dimensional offense.

If so, than another player will hopefully rise up. What Mitch has shown to this point is too inconsistent to be a B1G starter. His throws are weak and often off target.

I am hoping for a significant improvement from Mitch in year three.

 

[1994Convert]

Clearly Leidner is a good football player. He seems to actually throw a good deep ball and our WRs make good catches. He really struggles with the short and medium throws, crossing patterns, etc. When the receiver is running straight away from him, that is his bread and butter.

Some of us are concerned that Leidner's passing didn't perceptively improve much from Year 1 to Year 2. Hoping that it does for Year 3, is well, just hoping. The staff needs to work on finding a plan B. Luckily two of the other top teams in the BigTen West (Nebraska and Wisconsin) have the same problem of not having a good QB. Most fans aren't happy with being the same as the rest.

We can be better so hopefully the staff can teach Leidner to make the passes that he struggled with this year. Maybe the UofM will give him the year off from academics so he can work on his throws all through the offseason! (joking of course)

 

[Governor Sibley]

I think the likelihood of a JUCO QB is next to zero.

It would be a public vote of no-confidence in a team captain.

But what do I know.

 

[Word]

I think the likelihood of a JUCO QB is next to zero.

It would be a public vote of no-confidence in a team captain.

But what do I know.

I agree. As much as we may need another QB (if not just for depth) I think it would be like you said (at least in the public's eye) a vote of no confidence.

 

[oleboy41]

Good points. My fear through all of this is that every other scholarship QB on our roster is a smaller version of Leidner.

Something to think about: What if Streveler played instead of Moose? Gives us the same thing passing which isn't much, but he's fast enough where a lot of Moose's 10 yard runs become 20+ runs. In the last few weeks Moose has had a few times where he's broke into the open but then just wasn't fast enough or shifty enough to break away. That's fine because he's a big road grater TE type of a runner, but if we had a true 'running QB' it would bring a level of explosiveness we're missing in the running game

 

[BarnBoy]

Something to think about: What if Streveler played instead of Moose? Gives us the same thing passing which isn't much, but he's fast enough where a lot of Moose's 10 yard runs become 20+ runs. In the last few weeks Moose has had a few times where he's broke into the open but then just wasn't fast enough or shifty enough to break away. That's fine because he's a big road grater TE type of a runner, but if we had a true 'running QB' it would bring a level of explosiveness we're missing in the running game

This is a huge simplification.

 

[John Galt]

I wouldn't trade players straight up.
NW has had some great QBs, Siemian is not one of them.
Against similar opponents Siemian was awful. His MN game was the best of his season and he lead his team to 17 points.

I'm using Siemian as my example because I think he's a completely average, forgettable B1G QB. Given Mitch's running ability and toughness, I don't think I would trade him straight up either. My point is that "if" Mitch was an average passer, I think we would have won 2 more games this year.

 

[John Galt]

I agree. As much as we may need another QB (if not just for depth) I think it would be like you said (at least in the public's eye) a vote of no confidence.

I wouldn't view it that way. It could easily be portrayed as adding depth and competition.

Bottom line, the only way a JUCO would have made sense is if they could enroll in January and participate in spring practice. Given that we would need to have someone signed in like 2 weeks to make this happen, the chances are slim and none.

 

[BHgrappler]

I swear some people on this board think that, with a different QB, the Gophers would be undefeated. If we just didn't have Leidner at QB, the DB's would never blow a coverage or get called for interference; the DT's would sack the opposing QB on every play; the WR's would be wide open on every route and never drop a ball; and the other team would never surprise the Gophs with an offensive or defensive scheme that they weren't expecting.

Look - Leidner is inconsistent, but he is not the only issue with this team. This is a process. The Gophers were a better team this year, and assuming no changes in the coaching staff, I expect them to show more improvement next year. I know this is a "I want it now" society - but some things you just can't rush. The Gopher FB program did not fall apart in a day - it took several years of mis-management. And those problems will not be fixed in a day. I just don't like seeing people make Leidner the scapegoat.

What he said...spot on ^^.

 

[GoldenGopher88]

Winner winner chicken dinner.

I'm right in the middle of this debate. I feel like I'm a realist.

I agree with the Mitch haters that he isn't a good drop back quarterback and we need someone to be better than that for us to take the next step.
I agree with the Mitch lovers that he isn't a terrible fit for this team.
I agree with logic that someone better than Mitch isn't going to fall out of the sky and land in our laps a la Russell Wilson
I agree with the Minnesota way that I want someone to fall out of the sky and land in our lap a la Russell Wilson
I agree with the internet that it's not a crime to be critical of deficient parts of our program
I agree with the common sense that just because I think Mitch could improve, doesn't mean I think he's terrible, nor does it mean that I think we could/should bring in his backup and get better results.

I believe that us winning and Mitch not being the best QB ever can happen at the same time, and I believe I should be able to state those things without being called a hater or a lover.

I believe we are in a much better spot than last year, same as the year before and the year before that. I believe that next year we will be deeper and more talented.

I believe, that .....

We.

Will.

WIN!!!!!!!!

A Big 10 Championship in my lifetime. (I'm 30)

Are you a politician?

 

[MNGoldenGophers1]

I swear some people on this board think that, with a different QB, the Gophers would be undefeated. If we just didn't have Leidner at QB, the DB's would never blow a coverage or get called for interference; the DT's would sack the opposing QB on every play; the WR's would be wide open on every route and never drop a ball; and the other team would never surprise the Gophs with an offensive or defensive scheme that they weren't expecting.

Look - Leidner is inconsistent, but he is not the only issue with this team. This is a process. The Gophers were a better team this year, and assuming no changes in the coaching staff, I expect them to show more improvement next year. I know this is a "I want it now" society - but some things you just can't rush. The Gopher FB program did not fall apart in a day - it took several years of mis-management. And those problems will not be fixed in a day. I just don't like seeing people make Leidner the scapegoat.

You say this like it is a bad thing?!?

 

[DoubleAlum]

The one thing few to no people will calmly and intelligently discuss in threads like this on GH is play calling and play design. Leidner's effectiveness may have been better against Wisconsin had Limey called some plays that (to my admittedly very unsophisticated football mind) he just didn't call. Take the 53 yard pass to Maxx for example. That was a great call. Short pass, misdirection, that caught Wisky off guard. I just can't understand why we don't call 5 to 10 garden variety, short pass plays each game. Some games, we'll throw to our full back effectively or to Cobb effectively, then the next game we won't do that. Or, what about using two tight ends and then not throwing to Maxx a couple times? These seem like easy things to at least try. I realize that we don't protect the QB very well, but common sense would tell us that if Mitch can complete that simple pass to Maxx that yielded 53 yards, he could complete other similar passes. I'm not looking for triple-reverse passes, or other difficult passes where Mitch has to thread the needle, but it just seems to me that we ask Mitch to heave the ball into double coverage down the side line way too much. Opposing teams are ready for our pass plays. Why not develop a few simple, new plays for the Wisky game that their defense hadn't seen before. Again, I admit that I'm far from a football genius, but I absolutely refuse to believe that we couldn't have a more effective passing game with Mitch as our QB. I love our coaches and team and am amazed and incredibly thrilled and impressed at what they accomplished this year. But I firmly believe that everyone of us here on GH could've created a few fairly easy passing plays that they could've tried against Wisky. Bottom line, I'm just confused about the plays we don't use (simple ones) yet admit that I don't understand the game deeply enough to figure this out.