Juco Ge'Shun Harris?

[PurplePride]

This group of WR's is a 100 times better then what Brew came into. We have a senior WR with double digit TD's last year in the Big Ten. Two juniors in Green and Brandon who are big ten caliber. A junior college WR who should see the field. Two Red shirt freshman who were pretty good recruits and a redshirt soph in Kiese who was a three star from Florida.
We will be just fine at WR.

 

[Killjoy]

corcoran1

It is always nice to read a well thought out comment that is balanced and informative without having an agenda. It would be great to be able to read more of your perspectives in the future.

 

[gophmeister]

We have one really great wide out in McKnight and a whole lotta question marks. I really liked Quetin Gardner's highlight video and DCT is fast. Maybe one or both can step up as the season progresses. One factor that will help the receivers that I think hasn't been mentioned in this thread is Gray's running ability will more than likely take a man from coverage. If Gray can complete passes on the run look out.

 

[Jeshurun]

We have one really great wide out in McKnight and a whole lotta question marks. I really liked Quetin Gardner's highlight video and DCT is fast. Maybe one or both can step up as the season progresses. One factor that will help the receivers that I think hasn't been mentioned in this thread is Gray's running ability will more than likely take a man from coverage. If Gray can complete passes on the run look out.

IF - that's a big if until we see it in action. One of the clips from practice earlier in the Spring had Coach Kill yelling at Gray for not running when he had an opportunity. I think his exact words were "You had a chance to run for eight yards and you passed it back across the field? That's a SIN!"

 

[Killjoy]

What We Can't See Now

We have one really great wide out in McKnight and a whole lotta question marks. I really liked Quetin Gardner's highlight video and DCT is fast. Maybe one or both can step up as the season progresses. One factor that will help the receivers that I think hasn't been mentioned in this thread is Gray's running ability will more than likely take a man from coverage. If Gray can complete passes on the run look out.

This is a huge question and unknown gophmeister. I have had a chance to attend several practices but unfortunately it is near impossible to evaluate this question since they blow the whistle when a defender gets close to Gray.

I am dying to see what happens when they don’t. I suspect without a whistle that Gray will alter the dynamics of what is possible with the passing/running game greatly. How much is yet to be determined but the difference may be a little bit like playing flag football vs. tackle. Let the games begin.

 

[gophmeister]

... unfortunately it is near impossible to evaluate this question since they blow the whistle when a defender gets close to Gray.

I am dying to see what happens when they don’t. I suspect without a whistle that Gray will alter the dynamics of what is possible with the passing/running game greatly.

Based on Gray's play the last two years he's fast enough to escape any d linemen and most of the linebackers in the B1G10, which to me says he can hold the ball longer before committing himself to running. Every time he took a snap at QB the defense knew it was a run play and he still got yards so he'll be able to escape some tackles. If he doesn't succumb to information overload I figure he'll know when to take off.

 

[highwayman]

This group of WR's is a 100 times better then what Brew came into. We have a senior WR with double digit TD's last year in the Big Ten. Two juniors in Green and Brandon who are big ten caliber. A junior college WR who should see the field. Two Red shirt freshman who were pretty good recruits and a redshirt soph in Kiese who was a three star from Florida.
We will be just fine at WR.

I guess that was my point. I feel corcoran1's analysis was a generic, off any web page fill-in-the-blank. McKnight was one of the top receivers in the Big 10. Green has already shown his ability. Jones can make people miss. X. Brandon will contribute. Barker and Keise will see lots of playing time. Harris can catch the ball in traffic and in coverage, so I guess he's polished enough for me for now...and Quentin Gardner is far ahead of what most Freshman receivers bring to the table. Crawford-Tufts may redshirt, but you can't coach speed. This group will surprise.

Evey year, a diamond in the rough comes through. Last year, it was McKnight and Lair, Green the year before. I've seen the Logan Payne, Matt Spaeth, and yes, even the ever-hallowed Decker come out of nowhere. Potentially (and it seems likely), we have several of these.

If you guys want to continue to grouse, go ahead. This is one of the best groups of WRs (from the raw talent perspective) we've EVER had, and the right coaches to teach them. Think about it.

 

[Killjoy]

It Won't Be Flag Football

Based on Gray's play the last two years he's fast enough to escape any d linemen and most of the linebackers in the B1G10, which to me says he can hold the ball longer before committing himself to running. Every time he took a snap at QB the defense knew it was a run play and he still got yards so he'll be able to escape some tackles. If he doesn't succumb to information overload I figure he'll know when to take off.

gophmeister - You are right, Gray ran very well when they were not playing flag football and knew he was going to run. He may not have escaped some tackles with his last couple of runs at the end of the Iowa game, but he carried the tacklers for than five yards to still achieve a couple of first downs. Just think the problems he will cause with defenses if he is a threat to pass.

 

[oleboy41]

WR won't end up being as big a deal as we're making it IMO

-First off Kill's/Limegrover's offense really utilizes TE's meaning we won't be in a ton of 3+ WR sets and it seems like Jones is destined to be that slot guy right now. He's small and raw but very fast so there's some potential there

- McKnight is a very good #1 option
- Lair is the best receiving TE in the conference right now (according to last year's play/stats) so he'll be able to take some pressure off the young WR's and a good receiving TE is usually a young QB's best friend
- Bennett is a good receiving RB
- Green, if healthy, is a solid #3 WR and could become a very good one or a decent #2
- I don't expect much from anyone after that to be honest. I don't see any of the frosh being ready to contribute, and I don't think Barker is a B10 WR. Keise seemed like a possession guy coming out of HS but then had issues catching the ball so who knows with him.

If the top 4 guys (McKnight, Harris, Green, Jones) stay healthy I think we'll be at least adequate at the WR spot and we also have good receivers at the TE and RB spots. On top of that Kill wants to be a run first team so you shouldn't have to rely too much on your #s 3 and 4 WRs

 

[Killjoy]

Oleboy

Thanks - MV would be proud of your analysis. Now if Kill would only stop telling us how short we are in WR's I would feel better. Maybe he is just referring to Marcus Jones being only 5'8".

One thing that has not been greatly discussed is what will the impact will be of Gray being a running quarterback on the passing offense. It certainly opens up a lot of new possibilities that we have not discussed. Therefore how do people see the passing game changing with a running quarterback?

 

[oleboy41]

lol, thanks. We're definitely short on WRs but I don't think it'll be a huge deal in the fall. Right now the problem is that there aren't enough healthy WRs so they're running the guys that are there to death. You'd like to have 3 teams of WRs but right now they only have 2. For instance if they're working on 3 or 4 WR sets they only have 2 groups of WRs but they can rotate a bunch of RBs, QBs and OL but not WRs and those guys do the most running. Plus if we get hit with injuries there we're screwed, lol. I just think that IF we stay healthy the group we put out there in the fall won't be a disaster.

 

[STPGopher]

lol, thanks. We're definitely short on WRs but I don't think it'll be a huge deal in the fall. Right now the problem is that there aren't enough healthy WRs so they're running the guys that are there to death. You'd like to have 3 teams of WRs but right now they only have 2. For instance if they're working on 3 or 4 WR sets they only have 2 groups of WRs but they can rotate a bunch of RBs, QBs and OL but not WRs and those guys do the most running. Plus if we get hit with injuries there we're screwed, lol. I just think that IF we stay healthy the group we put out there in the fall won't be a disaster.

+1

My only concern is starter fatigue. Fatigue can = higher risk of injury. Hopefully other options will emerge to help with this issue. They don't have to be starts, just legit options to give starters breathers.

 

[corcoran1]

I guess that was my point. I feel corcoran1's analysis was a generic, off any web page fill-in-the-blank. McKnight was one of the top receivers in the Big 10. Green has already shown his ability. Jones can make people miss. X. Brandon will contribute. Barker and Keise will see lots of playing time. Harris can catch the ball in traffic and in coverage, so I guess he's polished enough for me for now...and Quentin Gardner is far ahead of what most Freshman receivers bring to the table. Crawford-Tufts may redshirt, but you can't coach speed. This group will surprise.

Evey year, a diamond in the rough comes through. Last year, it was McKnight and Lair, Green the year before. I've seen the Logan Payne, Matt Spaeth, and yes, even the ever-hallowed Decker come out of nowhere. Potentially (and it seems likely), we have several of these.

If you guys want to continue to grouse, go ahead. This is one of the best groups of WRs (from the raw talent perspective) we've EVER had, and the right coaches to teach them. Think about it.

Of course there is a chance they can exceed expectations, but based on known accomplishments at this point, your bet is completely on the come. I'll put it this way, pray for McKnights health, because having to account for him with extra coverage is the only way most of these players have a chance to get open, they can't beat coverage consistently on their own, and several have a hard time catching the ball consistently. That is understandable with Jones, not so much with guys who have been in the program 3 years. At this point Harris and Jones are the only two other receivers who can beat coverage on their own.
I would love to see some of the others step up and just take a position, I just have not seen them do it. I actually think the wide receiver coach last year was a pretty good coach. That does not mean Coach Poore can't help these guys, but if you are a RS sophomore or junior and are still not catching the ball in traffic, that is not just a coaching problem, in my opinion of course.

 

[Ole]

While inexperineced, we will certainly have bodies at the WR position. Add Lair to the mix as a "tweener," at we should have the right combination of size, speed, and pass catching ability. Jones will play for sure. X. Brandon will finally have his shot. Barker could be another Logan Payne. Crawford-Tufts or Gardener will see some time. By the end of next season, we'll wonder why we had this conversation...

82 Barker, A.J. WR 6-1 191 So. St. Paul, Minn. (De La Salle HS)
80 Brandon, Xzavian WR 6-3 181 Jr. Duluth, Ga. (Northview)
17 Cesario, C.J. WR 5-10 195 RFr. Arlington Heights, Ill. (St. Victor HS)
XX Crawford-Tufts, Devin WR 6-2 180 Fr. Edina, Minn. (Edina HS)
XX Gardener, Quentin WR 6-0 190 Fr. Denton, Texas (Guyer HS)
1 Green, Brandon WR 6-0 191 RJr. Chicago, Ill. (Robeson)
2 Harris, Ge'Shun WR 6-3 226 Jr. Corona, Calif. (Arizona Western College) (Centennial HS)
89 Hutton, Logan WR 6-1 177 RFr. La Marque, Texas (La Marque HS)
8 Jones, Marcus WR 5-8 168 Fr. Wake Forest, N.C. (Wake Forest-Rolesville HS)
84 Keise, Victor WR 6-1 174 So. Coral Springs, Fla. (North Broward Prep HS)
80 Kloss, Matt WR 6-0 192 Jr. Coon Rapids, Minn. (Northern State (S.D.))
6 McKnight, Da'Jon WR 6-3 214 Sr. Dallas, Texas (Skyline)
15 Wilson, Cameron WR 6-3 211 RFr. Rockwall, Texas (Rockwall Heath HS)

Our depth this spring is not good at WR, however I predict a few things will ease that problem in the fall.
-Trucilla and Gardner will end up playing, not ideal as both could use a RS season to learn the O, but two more bodies with some skill will help.
-Also add in Devon Wright becoming eligible, if it happens, and who knows if it will, but he could end up being a slotback Marcus Jones type.
-Also I've noticed Limegrover's O will line up multiple backs in a formation and motion them around to get them the ball, this could help alleviate true WR depth issues.
-Lair will be all over the place, count on it. He's a mismatch in the slot, motioned out, or in the backfield.

I also expect a bunch of bodies to be added in the next recruiting class, including another Juco probably.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

This group of WR's is a 100 times better then what Brew came into. We have a senior WR with double digit TD's last year in the Big Ten. Two juniors in Green and Brandon who are big ten caliber. A junior college WR who should see the field. Two Red shirt freshman who were pretty good recruits and a redshirt soph in Kiese who was a three star from Florida.
We will be just fine at WR.

Generally, I agree with you that we have more depth at WR now than we did in Brew's 1st season, but we still don't have much at all.

-I think everyone has stressed the need for Brandon Green to stay healthy. If he stays healthy he is probably the caliber of a Big Ten #3 WR, but this is a kid coming off of a terrible injury. I think assuming he is going to come back better than he was before (immedietly), is kind of a tough thing to predict.

-I really can't see how you've seen anything in Brandon to suggest that you know what kind of WR he will be. It sounds like he has worked his tail off to get himself in a position where he can play football again and he deserves respect for that but he is still a complete unknown. Prior to that, he has never even caught a pass in a game since he was at Northview HS in Duluth, GA.

-Green has done a little bit in his first two seasons, Brandon hasn't even caught a pass and both of these guys are coming off of extremely serious injury problems. Like, there was a lot of debate whether either of them would ever play football again.

-As far as Harris, he has shown some signs. I have only been to a couple practices, so I can't say a ton. But from what i've seen and what i've read from what other people have seen. He has his moments. He doesn't blow you away but he is a Big 10 caliber WR.

-Kiese - Well, he is another guy that hasn't proven anything yet. Like a lot of people have pointed out, he is a possesion guy who has the dropsies. You get the impression from him that he is dropping the ball because he is too pumped up (like he doesn't look like Troy Williamson trying to catch a ball) and he is taking his eyes off the ball.

Don't get me wrong, I can see your point about there being some elements to this WR corp that are intriguing and the fact that McKnight and Lair will be catching some passes, we should be fine. However, you also have to keep in mind that there will be some major questions.

After McKnight and Green, the rest of the WR have a total of 2 catches between them.
Two of our top 5 WR in the depth chart are coming off of career threatening injuries and haven't played for over 18 months.

 

[Cobra]

I'm not going to overlook Cameron Wilson...
Sure he's inexperienced, but I expect him to get some PT come fall.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Our depth this spring is not good at WR, however I predict a few things will ease that problem in the fall.
-Trucilla and Gardner will end up playing, not ideal as both could use a RS season to learn the O, but two more bodies with some skill will help.
-Also add in Devon Wright becoming eligible, if it happens, and who knows if it will, but he could end up being a slotback Marcus Jones type.
-Also I've noticed Limegrover's O will line up multiple backs in a formation and motion them around to get them the ball, this could help alleviate true WR depth issues.
-Lair will be all over the place, count on it. He's a mismatch in the slot, motioned out, or in the backfield.

I also expect a bunch of bodies to be added in the next recruiting class, including another Juco probably.

I could see Gardener getting some PT, but what makes you think Trucilla is going to play this season? I think Trucilla would have a hard time seeing PT barring a lot of injury.

 

[Ole]

I could see Gardener getting some PT, but what makes you think Trucilla is going to play this season? I think Trucilla would have a hard time seeing PT barring a lot of injury.

Because he's a walk on, he's got to earn PT somewhere to earn a schollie, I think he turned down quite a few top FCS offers to come here. I wouldn't sleep on his skill set either, he looked pretty fast in his film and extremely tough. Could be a special teamer/skill player who does dirty work type.
Out of state walk on recruited at a position of need with FCS offers to me spells someone who was told could come in and compete for PT right away and earn himself a ride right away.

 

[corcoran1]

Because he's a walk on, he's got to earn PT somewhere to earn a schollie, I think he turned down quite a few top FCS offers to come here. I wouldn't sleep on his skill set either, he looked pretty fast in his film and extremely tough. Could be a special teamer/skill player who does dirty work type.
Out of state walk on recruited at a position of need with FCS offers to me spells someone who was told could come in and compete for PT right away and earn himself a ride right away.

To be blunt, anybody who comes in with decent speed and truly reliable hands is very likely to play, because several people have not shown they can catch the ball reliably, both in games last year and in practice this spring. I have been to four practices, and I am not hallucinating. When Coach kill says "it is a thin group in numbers and talent", he is not kidding. the second best receiver is harris, and he really has a lot to learn, he is also talented and should be a good player. If they had players, Jones would probably at some other position, because he is just learning how to play receiver.
Dropping an open pass is an absolute drive killer, and a couple of guys do not catch a ball any better than Troy S did, and have a lot less chance to get open than he did. Troy was not a good WR.
In general I regard myself as naively optimistic when it comes to expecting recruits to succeed, and improve, but I don't think I have ever seen a player who can not reliably catch a ball as a sophomore become reliable even as a senior. Strength, speed, ability to fight your way off the line, ability to run good routes, almost anything else can be improved a lot, but mostly after you have played receiver for a while, you can reliably catch a ball or you can't.
I am not a harsh critic, and I wish all of these kids well, they play for us, but several of them can not catch a ball reliably even when they are open.
If Coach Poore can fix it more power to him, but he'll be the first in the many years I have watched Goph football. Poore is a positive guy who focuses on fundamentals even when they make a good play, so more power to him.

 

[corcoran1]

To be blunt, anybody who comes in with decent speed and truly reliable hands is very likely to play, because several people have not shown they can catch the ball reliably, both in games last year and in practice this spring. I have been to four practices, and I am not hallucinating. When Coach kill says "it is a thin group in numbers and talent", he is not kidding. the second best receiver is harris, and he really has a lot to learn, he is also talented and should be a good player. If they had players, Jones would probably at some other position, because he is just learning how to play receiver.
Dropping an open pass is an absolute drive killer, and a couple of guys do not catch a ball any better than Troy S did, and have a lot less chance to get open than he did. Troy was not a good WR.
In general I regard myself as naively optimistic when it comes to expecting recruits to succeed, and improve, but I don't think I have ever seen a player who can not reliably catch a ball as a sophomore become reliable even as a senior. Strength, speed, ability to fight your way off the line, ability to run good routes, almost anything else can be improved a lot, but mostly after you have played receiver for a while, you can reliably catch a ball or you can't.
I am not a harsh critic, and I wish all of these kids well, they play for us, but several of them can not catch a ball reliably even when they are open.
If Coach Poore can fix it more power to him, but he'll be the first in the many years I have watched Goph football. Poore is a positive guy who focuses on fundamentals even when they make a good play, so more power to him.

For those who think I am excessively critical, today you are right. Hoefully you are right in the long run as well. People caught the ball better today and all of the tight ends looked good, i.e. Lair, Rabe, McGarry and Euree; Lair and Rabe in particular. McGarry was moving well on swings into the flat. They all looked good, to me at least. I don't remember a tight end dropping a ball. All of those guys moved well today. If the WRs don't improve these guys will see the ball a lot.

The WRs also looked better, although McKnight walking around with an icepack on his knee is unnerving, but most of the guys held on to the ball better than I have seen in any other practice this spring. There were still drops that should not happen, but it was definitely better. There is even a real walk-on from the student body named Matt Kloss (#80) who looked pretty good out there today.

 

[NewEngland_Gold]

Corc and others re "holding onto the ball" ...

For those who think I am excessively critical, today you are right. Hoefully you are right in the long run as well. People caught the ball better today and all of the tight ends looked good, i.e. Lair, Rabe, McGarry and Euree; Lair and Rabe in particular. McGarry was moving well on swings into the flat. They all looked good, to me at least. I don't remember a tight end dropping a ball. All of those guys moved well today. If the WRs don't improve these guys will see the ball a lot.

The WRs also looked better, although McKnight walking around with an icepack on his knee is unnerving, but most of the guys held on to the ball better than I have seen in any other practice this spring. There were still drops that should not happen, but it was definitely better. There is even a real walk-on from the student body named Matt Kloss (#80) who looked pretty good out there today.

Please keep us posted on your views re Pride's shift to WR, as well as his catching ability in traffic.