John Shipley: Fire Gophers’ Richard Pitino? It’s not that cut and dried

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PMWinSTP said:
I actually hope he goes into broadcasting. I think he would be great and could become one of the top national analyst for college BBall.
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If he does, I hope it's not on BTN where I would see him often.
 

How much can a non-name first year coach influence attendance?

How about a normal 4,000 fans under George Hanson to regular crowds of 18,000 in Bill Musselman's first year? (Yes, the barn had a larger capacity back then.)
 

I still think that Pitino could be a successful basketball coach. It just won't be here. He has lost the window of opportunity to turn the corner with this program. Recruiting, the fans, the whole thing. The ship has left the port and I say that as one who has supported him. He needed to get it done this year with these guys and as of January it looked like he just might pull it off.....

Keeping him at this point would be a disaster at the box office.
 

bga1 said:
I still think that Pitino could be a successful basketball coach. It just won't be here. He has lost the window of opportunity to turn the corner with this program. Recruiting, the fans, the whole thing. The ship has left the port and I say that as one who has supported him. He needed to get it done this year with these guys and as of January it looked like he just might pull it off.....

Keeping him at this point would be a disaster at the box office.
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I am not trying to be argumentative, but what have you seen that makes you think he will be a good coach?
 




Mikie S said:
How much can a non-name first year coach influence attendance?

How about a normal 4,000 fans under George Hanson to regular crowds of 18,000 in Bill Musselman's first year? (Yes, the barn had a larger capacity back then.)
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You need hope to sell to the existing season ticket holder base to bring them back after year off. Year 9 of Pitino offers zero incentive to re-commit.
 

Not sure what team Shipley thinks he's watching, but this group gave up a long ways back. The fact they actually played hard in their final two games means nothing. They mailed in game after game on the road throughout the season and laid down completely against Illinois in both meetings. Giving it a hail Mary approach in the Big 10 tournament doesn't even begin to qualify as negating the past month and what this team has shown on the court. And to top it off, he trots out the tired "but, it'll be expensive" nonsense that always becomes a favorite of those with lazy takes.

Bottom line? Shipley should probably stick to another topic, since he obviously hasn't paid much attention until now.
 

MRJ said:
Not sure what team Shipley thinks he's watching, but this group gave up a long ways back. The fact they actually played hard in their final two games means nothing. They mailed in game after game on the road throughout the season and laid down completely against Illinois in both meetings. Giving it a hail Mary approach in the Big 10 tournament doesn't even begin to qualify as negating the past month and what this team has shown on the court. And to top it off, he trots out the tired "but, it'll be expensive" nonsense that always becomes a favorite of those with lazy takes.

Bottom line? Shipley should probably stick to another topic, since he obviously hasn't paid much attention until now.
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Also an indicator Shipley is clueless, "He never had a great team until he briefly had one this year". Sorry but the team that went 11-7 in conference play and earned a #5 seed in the NCAA tourney was much better.
 
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jblass said:
Again unfortunate injuries upended the last few games. If Kalscheur and Robbins were still playing we may have been on a 5 game winning streak and a tournament lock.
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If Robbins hadn’t played in two games after he was injured, he may well have been able to play yesterday and we might possibly be playing right now. Oh, well. 😥
 

cjbfbp said:
Exactly. I don't know why people on this page are making an effort to argue why this "closer call than you think" piece is faulty. Is there anyone posting here regularly who thinks this decision is a close call? It's like making a speech to the Politburo about about why claims that capitalism will be the savior of the world are faulty.
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pitino even knows it's over
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I am not trying to be argumentative, but what have you seen that makes you think he will be a good coach?
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There have been chunks of his stay here where he showed it. He mismanaged a lot of things, took moonshots at poor character recruits and did not design an offense that fit his personnel at this level.

Bad mistakes at a Big ten job where there is no margin for error. This job was never easy for anyone since Musselman. Dutch got the one Big Ten title. Haskins was a terrific builder but cheated to win one title and go to the Final Four. The 40 year win percentage in the Big Ten is in the 40-45% range. Over the last 45 years we have 6 years above .500 in the Big Ten that remain in the record books and another 4 or so expunged.

You can't do a good job here and succeed. You have to do a GREAT job to get this thing over the hump. Hall of Fame coach Tubby Smith- never over .500 in 6 years. There are obstacles.

Pitino was not ready for this. By the time he learned some things about recruiting character guys, his ship was already sinking. The Lynch year put a giant sized hole into it, just when he was on his way. He's under 40 and he will have to drop down a level and start from scratch. He did it at FIU in a year and I think he can have a good career.
 

Shipley isn't saying he shouldn't be fired, he's saying it's not a slam dunk decision.

Try being in Coyle's spot -- You have a team that's probably going to the dance if Robbins and Kalscheur stay healthy. You've had to cut 3 men's sports due to revenue shortfalls with COVID, and now you have to justify to the Board of Regents cutting Pitino a $1.75 million check, and get a new coach under contract.

It's a big decision for Coyle, but that's also his job to make those decisions.
 



NWMetroGopherFan said:
Shipley isn't saying he shouldn't be fired, he's saying it's not a slam dunk decision.

Try being in Coyle's spot -- You have a team that's probably going to the dance if Robbins and Kalscheur stay healthy. You've had to cut 3 men's sports due to revenue shortfalls with COVID, and now you have to justify to the Board of Regents cutting Pitino a $1.75 million check, and get a new coach under contract.

It's a big decision for Coyle, but that's also his job to make those decisions.
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C'mon, you're letting the trees get in the way of seeing the forest: you have a revenue program that's withering on the vine. If you're going to save this thing you can't wait for the leaves to shrivel up. Only a fool can't see that there's no viable way forward from here without changing captains. We'd be back to what we've been doing for several years now: continuing to do what we've been doing and hoping for different results.
 

NWMetroGopherFan said:
Shipley isn't saying he shouldn't be fired, he's saying it's not a slam dunk decision.

Try being in Coyle's spot -- You have a team that's probably going to the dance if Robbins and Kalscheur stay healthy. You've had to cut 3 men's sports due to revenue shortfalls with COVID, and now you have to justify to the Board of Regents cutting Pitino a $1.75 million check, and get a new coach under contract.

It's a big decision for Coyle, but that's also his job to make those decisions.
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Try being in Coyle's spot if he DOESN'T fire him. I like Pitino, I understand what has happened. But from a program standpoint, we have to move on.

I think Coyle is going to have to get boosters to buy in. My guess is he has that already and that makes his pitch to the Board of Dunces much easier.
 

NWMetroGopherFan said:
Shipley isn't saying he shouldn't be fired, he's saying it's not a slam dunk decision.

Try being in Coyle's spot -- You have a team that's probably going to the dance if Robbins and Kalscheur stay healthy. You've had to cut 3 men's sports due to revenue shortfalls with COVID, and now you have to justify to the Board of Regents cutting Pitino a $1.75 million check, and get a new coach under contract.

It's a big decision for Coyle, but that's also his job to make those decisions.
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It’s a big decision. It’s not a hard decision.
 

I think it was after the Northwestern game that Pitino, in a post-game interview, claimed that "The Gophers had faced more adversity than any other team in the country."

If anyone is on the fence, that statement should tip the balance. the whole "woe is me" attitude.
the "bad luck" mantra.

it's as if all of these factors are out of his control, and he can't do anything about it - like come up with a different scheme, or game plan, or rotation. Nope, nothing Richard can do. he is helpless in the face of this unprecedented adversity. give me a freakin' break.

But, as he has said repeated, "he's not making excuses." yah, sure.
 

NWMetroGopherFan said:
Shipley isn't saying he shouldn't be fired, he's saying it's not a slam dunk decision.

Try being in Coyle's spot -- You have a team that's probably going to the dance if Robbins and Kalscheur stay healthy. You've had to cut 3 men's sports due to revenue shortfalls with COVID, and now you have to justify to the Board of Regents cutting Pitino a $1.75 million check, and get a new coach under contract.

It's a big decision for Coyle, but that's also his job to make those decisions.
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There was no guarantee of anything before Robbins' and Kalscheur's injuries. They were already tanking by then, it was quite obvious. If anything, Liam and Gabe's injuries simply cemented what was already in motion.

As to the budget shortfall due to COVID, if it's so bad that they literally can't finance firing a coach in one of their revenue programs, they need to come clean and admit they can't (or won't) compete. If they kept Pitino, they'd lose even more money and support from the Minnesota public. Bottom line is that if this isn't a slam dunk, it should be. And if it isn't, that alone signals a big, big problem within the U administration.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
I think it was after the Northwestern game that Pitino, in a post-game interview, claimed that "The Gophers had faced more adversity than any other team in the country."

If anyone is on the fence, that statement should tip the balance. the whole "woe is me" attitude.
the "bad luck" mantra.

it's as if all of these factors are out of his control, and he can't do anything about it - like come up with a different scheme, or game plan, or rotation. Nope, nothing Richard can do. he is helpless in the face of this unprecedented adversity. give me a freakin' break.

But, as he has said repeated, "he's not making excuses." yah, sure.
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Nobody can tell me that that "woe is me" attitude isn't contagious to the team. You need to model a can-do attitude both privately and publicly, even if you're down and don't have much hope. It's not a cliche to say we're going to embrace the challenge and roll with the guys we have available. The words I heard from him the last few weeks were not from someone who was embracing the challenge.
 

BleedGopher said:
per Shipley:

Would they all return if Coyle retains their coach? Who knows? But they clearly didn’t quit on Pitino; though they lost two of their last three games, they rallied to force overtime against Rutgers and pulled within one of the Buckeyes, a team they had no business beating, in the final minute on Thursday.
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That is an optimistic way of looking at things.
 

NWMetroGopherFan said:
Shipley isn't saying he shouldn't be fired, he's saying it's not a slam dunk decision.

Try being in Coyle's spot -- You have a team that's probably going to the dance if Robbins and Kalscheur stay healthy. You've had to cut 3 men's sports due to revenue shortfalls with COVID, and now you have to justify to the Board of Regents cutting Pitino a $1.75 million check, and get a new coach under contract.

It's a big decision for Coyle, but that's also his job to make those decisions.
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Look, the USA made a very questionable decision long ago to link sports to colleges and universities. For most of them, that association has been a financial loser. However, some of those sports for some of those universities do generate income and fan interest and if you're going to be a player in that game, you have to play to win and keep the fans happy. As others have said before, if the university would balk at paying a $1.75 million buyout in today's environment, then they might as well drop down to the Summit League or just close the athletic department.
 

vagopher said:
I am proud of our team. They fought hard in the tournament. And I greatly respect Coach Pitino. He is a decent man who has had to deal with an inordinate amount of adversity. Not just this year, but over the course of his 8-year tenure at Minnesota. I would love to see him continue on and achieve the kind of success that we all want. But I recognize that a change might be needed to restore fan support. I have confidence in Coyle to make the right decision. And regardless of the outcome, I wish Pitino the very best.
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A moral victory to cap yet another collapse FTW!

F the respect for Pitino. He's a poor coach, in over his head, who has driven the Gophers into the dirt.
 

jblass said:
What about things like graduation rates, how well the players represent the university and community, player feedback, etc.
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Any Power 5 athletic director that values this over winning first off, wouldn't get the job, and if they did and said so, they should be fired immediately.
 

salzie said:
Given history and probably because of history academics and graduation is an important metric for athletics
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See, this is where this University gets it way wrong. And to be honest, the reason we have been anywhere from a doormat to mediocre in everything forever.

Other top athletic programs do not care about this kind of stuff over winning. They have accepted what major division 1 college athletics is. Flat out, winning athletic programs are great for a University's bottom line, it increases enrollment, etc, etc.
 

NWMetroGopherFan said:
Shipley isn't saying he shouldn't be fired, he's saying it's not a slam dunk decision.

Try being in Coyle's spot -- You have a team that's probably going to the dance if Robbins and Kalscheur stay healthy. You've had to cut 3 men's sports due to revenue shortfalls with COVID, and now you have to justify to the Board of Regents cutting Pitino a $1.75 million check, and get a new coach under contract.

It's a big decision for Coyle, but that's also his job to make those decisions.
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The thing is. Here is what matters, Football, Men's Basketball. Sorry but everything else is just there to be diverse and this is coming from a dad with nothing but daughters.

Sorry, just the way it is.
 

Bobby Jackson's been on the Sacramento King's coaching staff recently. Bobby's name and playing style could generate excitement with Gopher fan base. I haven't read anything about his coaching or recruiting strengths, but it would be a fantastic comeback if he became a successful coach for the Gophers.
 


Bad Gopher said:
Nobody can tell me that that "woe is me" attitude isn't contagious to the team. You need to model a can-do attitude both privately and publicly, even if you're down and don't have much hope. It's not a cliche to say we're going to embrace the challenge and roll with the guys we have available. The words I heard from him the last few weeks were not from someone who was embracing the challenge.
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I agree. I just don't think he is a good leader because of perceptions he puts out like this.

In the past he has also been very candid about what they need to do to make the tournament and counting ahead several games. You almost never hear a coach talk like that. he sounded like a bracketologist. On one hand, it was interesting to hear a coach be that open. One the other, I always thought it sounded weird and was not good for the players to hear that. The whole one game season thing PJ Fleck does is a much better way for a coach to lead.

Pitino is interesting to listen to, but to a fault, as a coach. I think he belongs on radio or TV instead.
 

Is Shipley buddies with RP? Just another MN journalist offering no real insights.
 

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