John Beilein is my pick. Prove he's not the right choice

I've always believed we need good players.

Don't care where they are from if they want to represent the Gophers.

Used to scream at Woog to sign a couple of Canadians to put us over the top! But Wooger kept to his all-Minnesota ideals.
 

I dare say MN is surrounded by winning programs in their own right. the Dakotas in FCS, Iowa, WI (we dont border NE so they dont count.

If we are in the heart of so much winning, we should be able to win too.
Lincoln is flat as a pancake, boring as hell. It's exactly the same thing as Iowa. It absolutely counts.
 

it looks like we can take better advantage of the local talent that's produced around here and snag some good players from time to time.
Yes, if we start doing some winning.

It's not a bootstrapping requirement though, that must be considered for this hire. I think.
 


Damn, ok, you want a shot of irish whiskey? I got 1st round
Oh I'm not in Lincoln, thankfully. Driven through many a time to and from Denver, though. You get the gist.

Unless you like the college drinking/party scene ... then it's probably less boring. To each their own.
 


What I’m saying is that we have a gold mine of HS talent here that we don’t tap into. To be successful, we have to get some of those kids. Maybe not the best kid. There are too many kids leaving our state for programs that are not any better than ours.
It’s a question that should be asked and answered satisfactorily by every candidate. “What‘s your strategy to recruit local players and why will this work, where others have failed?
I have total confidence in Mark Coyle. Look at men’s hockey, women’s basketball, football. All of them have upgraded their programs with Coyle hires.

I wouldn't say our women's basketball program has really been upgraded (outside of initial enthusiasm/excitement over the hire) with the Coyle hire, and I say this as a Whalen fan.
 

ISU is equivalent if you don't mind being second fiddle in your own state. The rest are not.

Coaches getting let go left and right for him? Half the people here don't want him because he's too old, but you think IU fans will all be thrilled? They want Stevens.

1. ISU and Iowa recruit totally different rosters typically. And while Prohm has really tanked things recently. The two have been extremely, extremely comparable over the last decade.

2. Fans dont sign a coach. But yeah, Brad Stevens would be awesome as well. Not sure what that has to do with Belien. And Stevens has to uh, you know.....be unemployed.
 

Tubby Smith was hired in March of 2007 so I don't think we can really look at the class of 2007 for recruits. For instance, that was the year Cole Aldrich graduated from Jefferson, but he committed to Kansas in November of 2005.

Top 5 MN players (per 247)
2008:
Berggren - wis
Taylor - wis
Battle - Tulsa
Tucker - iowa
Kuipers - Rice

2009:
White and Williams did stay home - top 2 recruits in the state
Dower - Gonzaga
Bruesewitz - wis
Broghammer - Notre Dame

2010:
Noreen - West Virginia
Stefan - LaSalle
Calcaterra - Colorado St
Starks - Columbia
Thomas - Long Beach

2011:
Coleman - Minnesota
Travis - Penn St
Singleton - Northern Iowa
White - Wichita State
Travis - Harvard

2012:
Lumpkin - Northwestern
Zierden - Creighton
Marshall - Missouri State
no other players ranked

2013:
Dearing - wis
Woodward - Penn State
Broman - S. Dakota
Doyle - S. Dakota
Hooker - N. Dakota St.

March 2013 - Tubby Fired

Can we please get over that MOST players don't stay in their home state.

2021 - Per 247 - Top 10

Chet Holmgren - Undecided - Probably Gonzaga
Jaden Hardy - Henderson, NV - UK if not D league
Paolo Banchero - Seattle, WA - Duke
Patrick Baldwin - Susses, WI - Crystal Ball - Milwaukee or Duke (Milwaukee...really?)
Jabari Smith - Tyrone, GA - Auburn <- that's in Alabama
Hunter Sallis - Omaha, NE - Crystal Ball - Gonzaga or UK
AJ Griffin - White Plains, NY - Duke
Caleb Houstan - Montverde, FL - Michigan
JD Davison - Long Beach, CA - UCLA
Daimion Collins - Atlanta, TX - UK
Harrison Ingram - Dallas, TX - Stanford

I posted something similar in another thread about where each of the top 5 in B10 states stayed in their home state. It's not a big number.

We really need to stop bitching about players leaving.
Those are a lot of players you wrote down, but not many of whom played at a high major. The only person on that list who received a Minnesota offer and did not play here was Sam Dower. (According to Rivals.) That's a pretty good slugging percentage by Tubby.

Here's that same list with those who went to high majors:


2009:
White and Williams did stay home - top 2 recruits in the state
Dower – Gonzaga – yes, had a MN offer
Bruesewitz – Wisconsin - NO MN OFFER
Broghammer - Notre Dame – NO MN OFFER

2010:
Noreen - West Virginia – NO MN OFFER

2011:
Coleman - Minnesota
Travis - Penn St – NO MN OFFER

2012:
Lumpkin – Northwestern – NO MN OFFER
Zierden – Creighton – NO MN OFFER

2013:
Dearing – Wisconsin – NO MN OFFER
Woodward - Penn State – NO MN OFFER

March 2013 - Tubby Fired
 




I wouldn't say our women's basketball program has really been upgraded (outside of initial enthusiasm/excitement over the hire) with the Coyle hire, and I say this as a Whalen fan.

Whalen has hardly had time to get her own players in, but to me, it seems like she is making good strides on the recruiting front. Hard to really judge her given it's Year 2 and this season has been hit pretty hard by COVID.
 

We don't need any local players to compete. So the notion that coach X might be better at keeping local talent home, shouldn't factor into the decision.

Unless you're hiring John Calipari or Rick Pitino or Bill Self or some other master recruiter who will bring in a bunch of high-level 4* and 5* talent, I disagree.

First, sure we can win without local kids, agreed, but it will be harder. Second, we will never get all the local kids to stay home and no one should claim that we will. Third, keeping local kids is more important now because the local pool is so much better now than even 15 years ago. Let me be clear, I'm not suggesting "settling" for lesser Minnesota talent over better talent elsewhere. I'm talking about putting a much stronger effort into getting the many bona fide high major players from here to stay here. That has to be a priority for many reasons, but mostly because it should - in my opinion - make recruiting and winning easier.

Reasons I believe this:

1) (No brainer) The MN high school basketball talent is at an all-time high. There are more high caliber, high major Division players here than ever before. That alone should help you win games if you can keep some of these kids here. It must be a priority with the next coach. To me, it is non-negotiable that a new coach has to put in a much better effort than the previous staff on understanding the importance of recruiting locally. If a coach tells Mark Coyle in an interview that he doesn't value local recruiting, that guy is out.

2) Minnesota high school kids are here. For most, this is home. It is a selling point that ONLY Minnesota has. Mom and dad want to watch their kids games in person? Stay home. You want your friends to see you on the TV news they watch and see pictures of you in the paper that they read? Stay home. And, you want to play with some of your AAU teammates? Two or three of you stay home. A new coach must be persuasive and strong in his feelings for keeping kids home and building a culture here using MN kids as a backbone. That's the blueprint, especially now there is loads of talent here. Lose a kid to Duke or Kansas? It'll happen. Lose a kid to Xavier, Marquette, even Wisconsin? Still might happen. But, it has to happen less. Way less. New coach has to make it happen way less...like way, way, way less.

3) Recruiting local kids takes fewer resources and should be easier to build relationships. Coach recruiting a local kid? No problem, hop in their car, drive 25 minutes to a high school gym or a prospect's house, recruit, recruit, recruit. No missing practice, no flight to book, no car to rent and refuel, etc. Local kids want to make a campus visit? He and his family hop in his car and they're at your game against Michigan in 25 minutes. Way easier to keep in touch and have things in common to talk about if you're all in the same city. Info to exchange is much more grassroots in developing a relationship. There is a head start in knowledge of each other. All that should make it easier and less costly and time-consuming to land a kid from here than it is flying to Detroit to connect on a flight to Akron, rent a car and drive to a high school to watch a kid play, spend an hour asking about his high school and spend another hour telling him about your program, only to hop in the rental car, drive to a crappy hotel, miss that day's practice, and fly home the next day. Of course, you'll have to recruit out of town kids, but not ALL out of town kids.

4) Local people pay attention to local kids more, creating more interest. Even if the kid isn't from your Minnesota town, he's from a Minnesota town of somebody you know. He may have played against your town. You've likely seen him written about in your paper, you may have watched him in the state tournament on your TV. That creates pride and interest. You might even go buy his Gopher jersey if he becomes a Gopher.

5) Local kids matter for the "heart and soul" of the team. Grow up here, play in front of family, the kids know what wearing Minnesota on your chest means. Minnesotans are a proud bunch, generally. Even more so when representing Minnesota, playing for the state.

6) A college team - the Gophers, for example - made up of a bunch of out of town AAU, prep school, hired-gun types is only good if the talent is off the charts (Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, etc). Usually at Minnesota, those type of kids aren't off-the-charts talented. Pitino relied way too much on those type of players. Those guys have to learn how to play as a team and value winning and culture. They have been playing for stats and chasing a scholarship for too many years. Most Minnesota AAU kids, however, have played on a high school "team" and know what it means to play to win. And, many observers believe that's part of why the Minnesota AAU guys win at a high level in the national events. They're good and they value winning. They play with a pride because they are from Minnesota. A lot of the kids Pitino recruited were playing AAU and prep school ball on multiple different teams over multiple years, some in multiple different cities and even multiple states. Hard to create a winning culture at a place like Minnesota with a roster full of guys who haven't valued winning much.


Again, not saying it is an end-all, be-all and definitely not saying you need a roster of 12 Minnesotans, that would be silly (unless of course they are all 4* and 5* kids).

But, winning should be easier if you keep a nice batch of kids home for some of the reasons I mentioned, as well as countless more.

A new coach could ignore the in-state talent or not put an emphasis on it. But, unless he's Calipari or Self or Wright, it is unlikely that approach will yield a more talented and winning roster, than busting your ass to keep some high end local kids here, while also bringing in some other talented kids from elsewhere.

Bottom line - with the right coach, who is persuasive and strong in his methods - landing a 3* or 4* kid who lives 15 miles from your campus is inherently going to be easier than landing a 3* or 4* kid of similar talents who lives in Dallas, Seattle, New York, or Atlanta. The right guy, who is committed to that, will land those kids. Not all of them, but enough to make a difference.
 
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You think so?

I would think he would want at least $2.5 if not $3 million per year to start negotiations and his assistants would cost too.

Be mighty gracious of him to give us a discount.

Pitino makes $2.5. What are you even talking about? Beilein at $2.5 is cheaper than nearly any established coach because no buyout and you still have to pay them.
 

Tubby Smith was hired in March of 2007 so I don't think we can really look at the class of 2007 for recruits. For instance, that was the year Cole Aldrich graduated from Jefferson, but he committed to Kansas in November of 2005.

Top 5 MN players (per 247)
2008:
Berggren - wis
Taylor - wis
Battle - Tulsa
Tucker - iowa
Kuipers - Rice

2009:
White and Williams did stay home - top 2 recruits in the state
Dower - Gonzaga
Bruesewitz - wis
Broghammer - Notre Dame

2010:
Noreen - West Virginia
Stefan - LaSalle
Calcaterra - Colorado St
Starks - Columbia
Thomas - Long Beach

2011:
Coleman - Minnesota
Travis - Penn St
Singleton - Northern Iowa
White - Wichita State
Travis - Harvard

2012:
Lumpkin - Northwestern
Zierden - Creighton
Marshall - Missouri State
no other players ranked

2013:
Dearing - wis
Woodward - Penn State
Broman - S. Dakota
Doyle - S. Dakota
Hooker - N. Dakota St.

March 2013 - Tubby Fired

Can we please get over that MOST players don't stay in their home state.

2021 - Per 247 - Top 10

Chet Holmgren - Undecided - Probably Gonzaga
Jaden Hardy - Henderson, NV - UK if not D league
Paolo Banchero - Seattle, WA - Duke
Patrick Baldwin - Susses, WI - Crystal Ball - Milwaukee or Duke (Milwaukee...really?)
Jabari Smith - Tyrone, GA - Auburn <- that's in Alabama
Hunter Sallis - Omaha, NE - Crystal Ball - Gonzaga or UK
AJ Griffin - White Plains, NY - Duke
Caleb Houstan - Montverde, FL - Michigan
JD Davison - Long Beach, CA - UCLA
Daimion Collins - Atlanta, TX - UK
Harrison Ingram - Dallas, TX - Stanford

I posted something similar in another thread about where each of the top 5 in B10 states stayed in their home state. It's not a big number.

We really need to stop bitching about players leaving.
What you say is an obvious fact! We do need to stop criticizing the coach for not being able to keep the talent instate. But, we can still be upset with the players that leave...especially the ones that preach about how much they want to represent the state.....at some other school.
 



I'd take Belien immediately, as he knows offensive flow and seems to be healthy again, and very motivated.

Age is no concern, and had he not died a couple of years ago, I'd try to elevate this guy, maybe he'd find us the next Isiah from the 'hood. The guy could sport the rug, glasses, and synthetic fiber coaching shorts like no one else.

OK, I finally watched the 3 hour movie, Hoop Dreams from 1994 last week, after avoiding it for 25 plus years and it was great. I am not sure Hollywood could have cast anyone to play a character like Gene Pingatore better had it not been a documentary. That guy was a something. The whole concept of St. Joe's is pretty insane as well

I have enjoyed some movies that were 3 hours long but "Hoop Dreams" should have been told in 1 hour.
 

I think John Beilein would be a great fit at Minny. If he does want to get back into coaching collegiate bb, why go to some inferior conference. Step back into the B1G and elevate Minny to build a more competitive conference and increase the value of my season tickets. Win-Win! 🤗
 

Yep, I don't know why we as MN think we're entitled to land every top rated in state kid when everywhere else is having the same problem. Is it our best chance at getting a 5*? Yeah, probably, but pretty ridiculous when it becomes an expectation.
No, our best chance to land a 5* is to be a very good program...
 

No, our best chance to land a 5* is to be a very good program...
Well yeah but I don't see us becoming the next blue blood...at least while I'm alive.

Plenty of very good programs that aren't blue bloods that aren't landing 5*'s.
 

I have enjoyed some movies that were 3 hours long but "Hoop Dreams" should have been told in 1 hour.

No way, I could have dealt with another hour of it. Best documentary ever and it followed their lives for nearly 10 years. 1 hour? Details are what make it so great
 

Tubby Smith was hired in March of 2007 so I don't think we can really look at the class of 2007 for recruits. For instance, that was the year Cole Aldrich graduated from Jefferson, but he committed to Kansas in November of 2005.

Top 5 MN players (per 247)
2008:
Berggren - wis
Taylor - wis
Battle - Tulsa
Tucker - iowa
Kuipers - Rice

2009:
White and Williams did stay home - top 2 recruits in the state
Dower - Gonzaga
Bruesewitz - wis
Broghammer - Notre Dame

2010:
Noreen - West Virginia
Stefan - LaSalle
Calcaterra - Colorado St
Starks - Columbia
Thomas - Long Beach

2011:
Coleman - Minnesota
Travis - Penn St
Singleton - Northern Iowa
White - Wichita State
Travis - Harvard

2012:
Lumpkin - Northwestern
Zierden - Creighton
Marshall - Missouri State
no other players ranked

2013:
Dearing - wis
Woodward - Penn State
Broman - S. Dakota
Doyle - S. Dakota
Hooker - N. Dakota St.

March 2013 - Tubby Fired

Can we please get over that MOST players don't stay in their home state.

2021 - Per 247 - Top 10

Chet Holmgren - Undecided - Probably Gonzaga
Jaden Hardy - Henderson, NV - UK if not D league
Paolo Banchero - Seattle, WA - Duke
Patrick Baldwin - Susses, WI - Crystal Ball - Milwaukee or Duke (Milwaukee...really?)
Jabari Smith - Tyrone, GA - Auburn <- that's in Alabama
Hunter Sallis - Omaha, NE - Crystal Ball - Gonzaga or UK
AJ Griffin - White Plains, NY - Duke
Caleb Houstan - Montverde, FL - Michigan
JD Davison - Long Beach, CA - UCLA
Daimion Collins - Atlanta, TX - UK
Harrison Ingram - Dallas, TX - Stanford

I posted something similar in another thread about where each of the top 5 in B10 states stayed in their home state. It's not a big number.

We really need to stop bitching about players leaving.

The top 3 players from Minnesota while Tubby was the coach at Minnesota all committed to the Gophers. You are going to list guys from NDSU, SD, Missouri State, LaSalle, UNI, Columbia, LBSU and so on to prove your point? Williams and White were both top 50 players in the country and Coleman was ranked right around 100. How many of the other guys was he even going to recruit? That list is nothing like the list that Pitino has missed out on.

Munson got Humphreys and Rickert. Clem lost El-Amin but got just about everyone else. If you have a good program you will be in the running for the top Minnesota players. I'm not saying you get everyone of them, but if our program was well thought of he would have gotten more than he did. Pitino doesn't seem have a great relationship with the high school coaches in Minnesota. I'm not even sure he went and watched a ton of high school basketball in the state. I've seen Tubby, Hoiberg, Gard, Roy Williams, Coach K, Self and many others at games I've been too, but have never seen Pitino.
 

The 1978 Gopher Recruiting Class was #1 in the nation

Tent Tucker - Flint, Michigan
Mark Hall - Texas HS All-American
Leo Rautins - Canada
Daryl Mitchell - West Palm Beach, Florida HS All-American
Gary Holmes - Miami, Florida - HS All-American

Not a lot of need for Minnesotans if you could recruit guys like these.
We also got McHale, Breuer and Mark Oberding who were the best players from Minnesota in that decade. McHale was a couple years older (76) and Breuer was in the next class (79??) I believe. They both played with those guys and by the time that class was in their last year they won the Big Ten.
 
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I’d take him if he wants to come here. It doesn’t bother me if his age means his time is numbered. He has a proven track record. His teams could all “SHOOT” and I can’t emphasize that enough. I also believe Beilien will recruit better and “DEVELOP” solid players. Let’s not get in a false reality that our program will get high 4 star players consistently even after the change. Honestly stars are a false reality to me. We need a coach that can properly scout and develop.
 

Beilien is one of my favorites. Dutcher right behind him. I think both are too old. We have had Monson for 8 years, then Tubby for 6 years and Pitino for 8 years. If I am Coyle I am hunting for a 15 year solution who can win big.

Musselman would be my first choice- no question. But chances are, we can't get him.
If so I'd guess it comes down to Smith or Gates. Medved just hasn't done enough in my view.
 

Beilien is one of my favorites. Dutcher right behind him. I think both are too old. We have had Monson for 8 years, then Tubby for 6 years and Pitino for 8 years. If I am Coyle I am hunting for a 15 year solution who can win big.

Musselman would be my first choice- no question. But chances are, we can't get him.
If so I'd guess it comes down to Smith or Gates. Medved just hasn't done enough in my view.
Muss is not much younger than Dutcher.
 

beilien would be a big time hire. He gets us in the door of more big time players immediately and has a rich wide ranging web of connections. If he's interested he's the answer. The others guys mentioned here might be the answer but Beiien clearly is ahead of the pack
 

Muss is not much younger than Dutcher.
Good call - he is 56. That is older than I thought he was...still I think that's a 15 year plan or at least 10
 


Kids want to play for a winning team. Gophers have had about 2 decent tournament appearances in the past couple decades. We haven't been gaining many fans over the years. Kids dont really dream of playing for the gophers when they are good enough to play for a team that wins their conference or can make deep tournement runs. A better coach would get some more local talent to stay home, but not everybody. I was watching Jericho Sims get a double double last night against OK. Mckinley wright played great against ASU. Those two along with JP Marcura and Reid Travis are players I really wished we could have kept around. We were all so excited for Jelly fam because he was a 4star recruit! lol

Winning cures all. I pray that Coyle makes a good hire.
 

Beilien is one of my favorites. Dutcher right behind him. I think both are too old. We have had Monson for 8 years, then Tubby for 6 years and Pitino for 8 years. If I am Coyle I am hunting for a 15 year solution who can win big.

Musselman would be my first choice- no question. But chances are, we can't get him.
If so I'd guess it comes down to Smith or Gates. Medved just hasn't done enough in my view.
Dutcher is more likely still be here in year 6 than Gates would be IMO.
 

Dutcher is more likely still be here in year 6 than Gates would be IMO.
Plausible.

But kids out west know of San Diego St and that it's a winner in the Mountain West and usually does well in the big dance too. I think the program partly recruits itself, for the types of kids out there that they can get.


Why should any midwestern top 300 (or whatever) level high school player, give a damn about Brian Dutcher at Minnesota?
 

When I look at Dutcher, I calculate he has 5-6 years left before he turns 66 or 67. That's when I've seen many coaches lose their edge.

Beilein is already older than that. Can he maintain the energy necessary to establish a winning culture? It didn't seem he had much energy left as an NBA coach with Cleveland.

Yes, there are other, older coaches that are winning at a high level, BUT they ALL have already established that winning culture needed. Please give me an example of a 68 year old coach who turned a team around.
 




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