JJ would be nice but we really need playmakers at other positions

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Not a big need? Has anyone seen Edwards play yet? Did I miss him play in these past few games?
 

Dean S said:
Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob. I'm not convinced. Tell me, Bob, do you think our class is balanced, fills needs, and is going well? I don't.
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What position(s) do you feel this recruiting class is lacking?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Sure you can.

Connor Cook had some really nice moments, but I don't think many people would call him great (at least not yet).

There are a lot of examples of really good (great) Big 10 teams without great QBs. There are also numerous examples of National Championship teams without great QBs, teams built on a dominant running game and defense.
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Connor Cook is miles ahead of our QBs. It's not even close. I pull hard for Nelson and Leidner, but they are not in the same league as Cook. They can't make 1/3 of the throws that Cook can. I've said this before and I'll say it again, I have no idea if this has more to do with talent or tutelage but there is a glaring deficiency at QB at Minnesota. Between Gray, Shortell, Nelson and Leidner, something is clearly not working. I agree with you that we don't need a Heisman level QB, but we need a QB that can make all the throws, can make them crisply, and can lead a team confidently in a 2 minute 75 yard drive.
 

BreakTheGopherCurse said:
Connor Cook is miles ahead of our QBs. It's not even close. I pull hard for Nelson and Leidner, but they are not in the same league as Cook. They can't make 1/3 of the throws that Cook can. I've said this before and I'll say it again, I have no idea if this has more to do with talent or tutelage but there is a glaring deficiency at QB at Minnesota. Between Gray, Shortell, Nelson and Leidner, something is clearly not working. I agree with you that we don't need a Heisman level QB, but we need a QB that can make all the throws, can make them crisply, and can lead a team confidently in a 2 minute 75 yard drive.
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He wasnt comparing Cook to the Gopher QBs. Just simply saying you don't need an elite QB to be a great team in the college game.

Yes, they Gophers QBs are frustratingly inconsistent and as the team stands today are a detriment to the progress of the offense. Hopefully, one of them takes full advantage of the offseason and changes that.
 

BreakTheGopherCurse said:
Connor Cook is miles ahead of our QBs. It's not even close. I pull hard for Nelson and Leidner, but they are not in the same league as Cook. They can't make 1/3 of the throws that Cook can. I've said this before and I'll say it again, I have no idea if this has more to do with talent or tutelage but there is a glaring deficiency at QB at Minnesota. Between Gray, Shortell, Nelson and Leidner, something is clearly not working. I agree with you that we don't need a Heisman level QB, but we need a QB that can make all the throws, can make them crisply, and can lead a team confidently in a 2 minute 75 yard drive.
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i will probably get burned for this but Shortell was not a bad QB, the best one of all of those if you ask me, he almost led a comeback at USC as a true freshman after Gray didn't do anything
 


btowngopher said:
Not sure what you mean by bigger get, but Henderson, Cornell, and Floyd were all more highly rated coming out of high school.
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of course they were more highly rated, i wouldn't have made that list if that was what it was based off of, i think Jeff is more valuable then Cornell, Henderson and possibly Floyd and will make a bigger impact in games then those 3
 

Max didnt exactly light the FCS up this year. He had his chances and didnt make the most of them. Lets move on.
 

die hard gopher said:
of course they were more highly rated, i wouldn't have made that list if that was what it was based off of, i think Jeff is more valuable then Cornell, Henderson and possibly Floyd and will make a bigger impact in games then those 3
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Sorry none of them would be better than Thompson. ;). Jeff come to Minnesota get good grades and demolish Thompson's records. If you do I will help you find a job after graduation. ;).
 

cjcarter8 said:
What position(s) do you feel this recruiting class is lacking?
Click to expand...

Certainly.
1st priority: offensive guard or tackle.
2nd priority: quarterback
3rd priority: wide receiver
4th priority: mike linebacker
5th priority: nose tackle
6th priority: SS linebacker
7th priority: running back
8th priority: cornerback
9th priority: long snapper
10th priority: punter/kicker

I have reshuffled this list several times in the last few weeks.
 



cjcarter8 said:
The NFL is a QB driven league, college football is not. If the starting lineup is mostly comprised of good players, you can get by with a barely above average QB. Connor Cook, Kevin Hogan, Nick Marshall just to name a few.

The Gophers have numerous holes but Jeff Jones will make the offense markedly better.
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I think you hit it on the head. The Adrian Peterson/no quarterback thing when compared to a college team drives me nuts. If the Gophers had better QB play this year (in the passing game) they would have won another game or two, that's true.

However, you get a game changer at running back like Jeff Jones, he can make ou quarterbacks look a lot better. Put that kid all over the field (along with a more mature Wolitarsky and Jones) and this team will be dynamic. To think otherwise is a bit foolish.
 

Dean S said:
Certainly.
1st priority: offensive guard or tackle.
2nd priority: quarterback
3rd priority: wide receiver
4th priority: mike linebacker
5th priority: nose tackle
6th priority: SS linebacker
7th priority: running back
8th priority: cornerback
9th priority: long snapper
10th priority: punter/kicker

I have reshuffled this list several times in the last few weeks.
Click to expand...

Comments:
1st priority: It's not like the staff hasn't been beating the brush looking for OLs. They've offered ~15 linemen to date and have procured an excellent center in Mayes who according to some pundits could end up at another spot along the line. Ragnow, if he chooses to stay home, would make this an excellent "off-year" lineman recruiting class since we are only losing 1 lineman.
2nd priority: I agree that if Dominic is really being recruited as an athlete that another QB prospect would have been ideal. Hopefully Schlichte stays home for next years class if he's everything that he's reported to be.
3rd priority: This would have been my number 1 priority, and we have been woefully unsuccessful to date in convincing a blue-chip WR to join us. The staff has put out 26+ offers but no commits. One could correlate this to the lack of a recognized downfield passing QB in our fold, much like getting a high quality RB without a recognized O-line is difficult. Hopefully Holland breaks the trend and gives us some solace.
4th: Not sure you need to go after an absolute Mike-type every year- seem to be in pretty good shape here with DW, Lynn and Laster supposedly in line for the job and providing us depth for the immediate future.
5th: We've signed 2 DTs so far (including Stelter who by all reports is projected as a DT). As far as NT goes- it's seemed to me that we often play without a true NT and play our tackles as one-gap tackles except for Shede who was frequently right over the guards face. Richardson is a short DT but by reports is "strong like bull" and given his low center of gravity may be projected as a NT if one is needed.
6th: Would have put this higher on the list as I'm not confident that Campbell can handle the demands of strong side unless he gets bigger and becomes more physical. Don't know if any of the other youngsters has the proper body type and athletic requirements for this side but I'm hopeful the staff is comfortable with what they're developing.
7th: Would put this higher as well- never have enough RB's and we don't have a guaranteed durable game-changer yet. JJ would go a long way in ameliorating this, and another 3-4* kid would provide needed long-term depth.
8th: While I'm comfortable with our safety depth- think we desperately need more CB depth. Don't know how Boddy will be so we only have 3 dependable CBs that I can see going into next year. Given the penchant for some teams to go spread, the need for more cover guys is of utmost import.

Thus my rank assuming our commitments stay solid, and that McKinzey is recruited as a QB would be:
1- Wide receiver
2- Sam LB
3- CB
4- DE - not enamored with the performance of anyone outside of Cockran and Kafo looks like a project.
5- RB
6- OL - Come on and stay home Frankl I'll fly back to see you and JJ play together.

The next several weeks should be a lot of fun to see how it all evolves.
 

BreakTheGopherCurse said:
Connor Cook is miles ahead of our QBs. It's not even close. I pull hard for Nelson and Leidner, but they are not in the same league as Cook. They can't make 1/3 of the throws that Cook can. I've said this before and I'll say it again, I have no idea if this has more to do with talent or tutelage but there is a glaring deficiency at QB at Minnesota. Between Gray, Shortell, Nelson and Leidner, something is clearly not working. I agree with you that we don't need a Heisman level QB, but we need a QB that can make all the throws, can make them crisply, and can lead a team confidently in a 2 minute 75 yard drive.
Click to expand...

Others have answered this question, but since it was in response to me, I'll respond.

So what if Connor Cook is better than our QBs?

You said that you can't have a great team without a great QB, there are plenty of great college football teams without great QBs.
 

Dean S said:
Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob. I'm not convinced. Tell me, Bob, do you think our class is balanced, fills needs, and is going well? I don't.
Click to expand...

I think the class is going alright. The bright spot in the class is surely Jeff Jones though (IMO).

But to answer your question. . .

(1) Class balance? So far, so good. You can't really ask about balance when we still have room left. But we have some guys who are position flexible (Gibson and Elmore), we have a couple impressive young DTs (tough position to fill and a position we needed), the QB of the class and our best RB recruit in years. The balance of the class will concern me if it doesn't contain a couple WRs and a couple more DBs. It will, so balance isn't a concern fo me.

(2) Needs? Hmmmm. . .I don't think we should be recruiting for need. Our only position of need where we might be able to find someone is WR, like a JuCo WR. Other than that, I consider balance and need to be the same thing in college football recruiting, you need balance. You can't expect HS players to fill a need.

(3) Overall. . .it's tough. We have some really exciting guys (Jones, Elmore, Stetler and Mayes), so I think it's gone alright. I absolutely don't think that any time spent on Jones has been a detriment, in fact, I think it's probably the most positive thing about this class.
 



Was looking at the recruiting class for last year. Wondering who will make a contribution next year: http://www.gopherhole.com/page/show/1030085-2013-gopher-football-recruiting-class




De'Vondre Campbell LB 6-5 224 Fort Myers, FL / Hutchinson CC
Eric Carter WR 5-10 175 Lakeland, FL / Lake Gibson HS
Rayfield Dixon LB 6'3 195 Laxahatchee, FL / Seminole Ridge HS
Berkley Edwards RB 5-9 195 Chelsea, MI / Chelsea HS
Hendrick Ekpe DE 6-3 230 Lewisville, TX / Lewisville HS NR
Jordan Hinojosa DT 6-3 270 Miami, FL / Coffeyville, KS JC
Donovahn Jones QB 6-2 190 Hampton, GA / Dutchtown HS
De'Niro Laster ATH 6-2 220 Cleveland, OH / Cleveland Heights HS
Alex Mayes OT 6-5 285 Van Alstyne, TX / Van Alstyne HS
Daletavius McGhee S 6-1 180 Ellenwood, GA / Cedar Grove HS
Jalen Myrick CB 5-11 185 Savannah, GA / Savanna Christian Prep
Demaris Peppers DT 6-3 255 Memphis, TN / Fairley HS
Owen Salzwedel DE 6-5 235 Beaver Dam, WI / Beaver Dam HS
Ryan Santoso K 6-5 270 Pace, FL / Pace HS
Chris Streveler QB 6-2 190 Woodstock, IL / Marian Central Catholic HS
Damien Wilson LB 6-2 230 Liberty, MS / Jones Count JC
Chris Wipson LB 6-1 195 Plymouth, MN / Wayzata HS
Drew Wolitarsky WR 6-3 210 Canyon Country, CA / Canyon HS
Nate Wozniak TE 6-8 255 Greenwood, IN / Center Grove HS

Wolitarsky, Wilson, Jones, Campbell all made major contributions this season. I'm not sure who redshirted out of this group that will make a significant contribution next year. Wozniak on one side at 6'8" and Williams on the other could make an interesting double TE formation that could give defenses problems. This could be a big help to our Qbs. We will see if Streveler is allowed to be in the mix at QB or if they invest time at WR with him. I am not as familiar with the other players as some on this board. So don't know how they have come along. Berkley Edwards is the wild card for me. I think he felt slighted by Michigan and will play with a chip on his shoulder.
 

Sorry for the jumbled up type. They were not that way when I posted them. :)



MNSpaniel said:
Was looking at the recruiting class for last year. Wondering who will make a contribution next year: http://www.gopherhole.com/page/show/1030085-2013-gopher-football-recruiting-class




De'Vondre Campbell LB 6-5 224 Fort Myers, FL / Hutchinson CC
Eric Carter WR 5-10 175 Lakeland, FL / Lake Gibson HS
Rayfield Dixon LB 6'3 195 Laxahatchee, FL / Seminole Ridge HS
Berkley Edwards RB 5-9 195 Chelsea, MI / Chelsea HS
Hendrick Ekpe DE 6-3 230 Lewisville, TX / Lewisville HS NR
Jordan Hinojosa DT 6-3 270 Miami, FL / Coffeyville, KS JC
Donovahn Jones QB 6-2 190 Hampton, GA / Dutchtown HS
De'Niro Laster ATH 6-2 220 Cleveland, OH / Cleveland Heights HS
Alex Mayes OT 6-5 285 Van Alstyne, TX / Van Alstyne HS
Daletavius McGhee S 6-1 180 Ellenwood, GA / Cedar Grove HS
Jalen Myrick CB 5-11 185 Savannah, GA / Savanna Christian Prep
Demaris Peppers DT 6-3 255 Memphis, TN / Fairley HS
Owen Salzwedel DE 6-5 235 Beaver Dam, WI / Beaver Dam HS
Ryan Santoso K 6-5 270 Pace, FL / Pace HS
Chris Streveler QB 6-2 190 Woodstock, IL / Marian Central Catholic HS
Damien Wilson LB 6-2 230 Liberty, MS / Jones Count JC
Chris Wipson LB 6-1 195 Plymouth, MN / Wayzata HS
Drew Wolitarsky WR 6-3 210 Canyon Country, CA / Canyon HS
Nate Wozniak TE 6-8 255 Greenwood, IN / Center Grove HS

Wolitarsky, Wilson, Jones, Campbell all made major contributions this season. I'm not sure who redshirted out of this group that will make a significant contribution next year. Wozniak on one side at 6'8" and Williams on the other could make an interesting double TE formation that could give defenses problems. This could be a big help to our Qbs. We will see if Streveler is allowed to be in the mix at QB or if they invest time at WR with him. I am not as familiar with the other players as some on this board. So don't know how they have come along. Berkley Edwards is the wild card for me. I think he felt slighted by Michigan and will play with a chip on his shoulder.
Click to expand...
 

Dean S said:
Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob, Bob. I'm not convinced. Tell me, Bob, do you think our class is balanced, fills needs, and is going well? I don't.
Click to expand...

Dean, I'm thinking you might be a person who keeps a close eye on the "class rankings" portion of the recruiting websites a bit too much. It's just a guess. I am a "stars matter" kind of guy, but I think looking at class rankings is fools gold. There is just too much importance given to class size. So if you're a school with a ton of attrition, you're going to have better recruiting classes. So here is a little insight into this class so far in comparison with Kill's first full class (Pirsig and Nelson class).

The 2012 class had 26 players.
Of those 26 players, 9 of them had other BCS offers. (34.6%)
Of those 26 players, only 3 had multiple BCS offers. (11.5%)

Now this class has 13 players so far.
Of those 13 players, 9 of them have BCS offers. (69.2%)
Of those 13 players, 7 of them have multiple BCS offers. (53.8%)

My point isn't that "other offers" is the only thing to look at when evaluating a class. My point is that this class is a big improvement on quality on the 2012 class (on paper). The rankings might have them ranked similarly, but that's only punishing Kill for keeping players in school.
 


MNSpaniel said:
Was looking at the recruiting class for last year. Wondering who will make a contribution next year: QUOTE]

Myrick also played quite a bit this season and was impressive IMO. I think he'll see the field a lot next year and contribute.

Wipson, Dixon and Laster have legit chances of getting a lot of PT. People seem to be pretty high on Laster, he has legit size and he was impressive this summer.

Edwards, they sure talk him up, so I am hoping it's for real. So far, they've been pretty accurate when talking people up (Cockran, Murray, Jones, Maxx Williams)..

I expect to see Edwards, Myrick, Laster and Wozniak have a role on this team. However, it's far more likely that an upperclassman will step up than a FR. Don't be surprised if you see guys like Scott Ekpe, Antonio Johnson, Pirsig, Harbison, or Fruechte take a big step rather than these younger guys.
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When all parts of your passing game are freshmen or a little better, it is not a surprise if they play like the 2013 MN Gophers. If the passing game doesn't leap forward next year, I'll join the qb whiners. However, I do not expect that to happen - they will make a leap forward, whoever is at QB.
 

nc2mn said:
When all parts of your passing game are freshmen or a little better, it is not a surprise if they play like the 2013 MN Gophers. If the passing game doesn't leap forward next year, I'll join the qb whiners. However, I do not expect that to happen - they will make a leap forward, whoever is at QB.
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Nelson was just so bad the last couple of games I lost the faith. I'll be nervous next year about our QB play.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Others have answered this question, but since it was in response to me, I'll respond.

So what if Connor Cook is better than our QBs?

You said that you can't have a great team without a great QB, there are plenty of great college football teams without great QBs.
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Okay, perhaps I made a mistake by saying "great" quarterback. "Great" is very subjective. But you definitely need a very good quarterback, even in college football. To think that college football in this day and age is that much different than professional football is, in my opinion, mistaken. You won't find many, if any, teams in the top 20 that don't have very good qb's. Someone pointed to Stave as an example. See, I look at Stave and think he is a very good college QB compared to ours. I don't pretend to be a good football analyst, but the "eye" test tells me that the Gophers simply lack a major college level QB at this time.

By the way, just to be clear, I would love to have Jeff Jones on the team. I would love to have any excellent football player from the State of Minnesota stay home to play for the Gophers. Please Jeff Jones, come to Minnesota. I will also admit, I have no idea what a tremendous player like Jeff would do to "compensate" for deficiencies in other positions. All I've been trying to say is that to my eye, our QB play seems well below the level of the rest of the league. And, I have no idea if that is due to talent, teaching, schemes, play calling, whatever.
 

BreakTheGopherCurse said:
Okay, perhaps I made a mistake by saying "great" quarterback. "Great" is very subjective. But you definitely need a very good quarterback, even in college football. To think that college football in this day and age is that much different than professional football is, in my opinion, mistaken. You won't find many, if any, teams in the top 20 that don't have very good qb's. Someone pointed to Stave as an example. See, I look at Stave and think he is a very good college QB compared to ours. I don't pretend to be a good football analyst, but the "eye" test tells me that the Gophers simply lack a major college level QB at this time.

By the way, just to be clear, I would love to have Jeff Jones on the team. I would love to have any excellent football player from the State of Minnesota stay home to play for the Gophers. Please Jeff Jones, come to Minnesota. I will also admit, I have no idea what a tremendous player like Jeff would do to "compensate" for deficiencies in other positions. All I've been trying to say is that to my eye, our QB play seems well below the level of the rest of the league. And, I have no idea if that is due to talent, teaching, schemes, play calling, whatever.
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College football and the NFL are two completely different animals. Things that work in college don't necessarily translate to the NFL.
 

BreakTheGopherCurse said:
Someone pointed to Stave as an example. See, I look at Stave and think he is a very good college QB compared to ours. I don't pretend to be a good football analyst, but the "eye" test tells me that the Gophers simply lack a major college level QB at this time.
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I was the one who brought up Stave. I don't disagree that he is better than our QB play right now. I don't think anyone disagrees with you there. My point was Wisconsin went to the Rose Bowl three years in a row. And in two of those three years, their QB play was not great. Good/solid but not great. Tolzien and Stave (at least so far) do well in the type of offense they run. They don't have to do a ton. Just don't turn the ball over and make the easy throws.

Now Russell Wilson was a great QB.
 

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