Jim Souhan tee's off on Tubby in column: Tubby sends all the wrong messages

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brucekaupa said:
Here's what would be refreshing:

"We weren't prepared and I take the blame for that."

Instead we get:

"Losers point fingers"...followed by a bunch of finger pointing.
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That WOULD be refreshing. About as refreshing as a column written by Souhan that wasn't a knee-jerk, twist-the-knife style piece. Where was the Souhan piece praising the Gophs for holding off the 2nd half charge by he first place Spartans a few weeks ago? Always so much easier to tear down than praise. I'm fine with some negative tone columns, but there's never even a whisp of balance from Dim Jim. I should offer to ghost write for him after bad losses, it's embarrassingly predictable and easy to emulate him.

Anybody who thought there wouldn't be some stumbling blocks along the way thru the conference play doesn't watch the Big Ten much. Take a deep breath and let the season play out.
 

zipsofakron said:
You can't pick and choose certain halves throughout the season to judge the team on. By that logic I could say it's been a rousing success because we destroyed Illinois in the second half of that game or killed Northwestern at home.

I'm not about to attack the team because they got exposed by two national championship contenders either. We know this Tubby explosion is all about getting embarrassed by a terrible Northwestern team. It happened to come on the heels of the toughest schedule stretch these guys have seen in years. Coincidence? Maybe, but who knows right now.
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Do you really believe that?
 


It's a build up of frustration, but if we won on Wednesday then we aren't having this conversation. So, yes.
 



station19 said:
You just ruined his day.
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I'll admit when I'm off base, as I'm not an unreasonable man. That positive article is just that, in tone. And I do remember reading it (and being a little surprised), now that you linked it. I think I even acknowledged that here on GH. However, the 'Michigan game' column is simply Jim verbally fellating Trey Burke, and not really much about the Gophers even. That's fine, as Trey is a great player. But don't pass it off as neutral.

And I suppose that does indicate my 'whisp of balance' request. But to be sure that's all it is, a whisp. I'd wager Souhan's ratio of positive/neutral to negative Gopher related articles is still well, well below 1.

Relative to today's column, though Souhan uses the phrase "once promising season". That sticks out to me as excessively negative, and unwarranted. The season no longer has any promise? Wow. That's news to me. Thanks for subtley attempting to tell me I can stop watching Gopher hoops the rest of the way now, Jim. I can only hope that because there is no more promise to the season that this will be the last Gopher hoops column from him until next Fall.

It's phrases like that which get under my skin more than anything else.

EDIT: Huh, wow. Look at that, I actually did give Souhan credit for being positive
 

zipsofakron said:
It's a build up of frustration, but if we won on Wednesday then we aren't having this conversation. So, yes.
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I can see the argument of it being just one game. But when, as you put it, there is a "build up of frustration", that generally means there is a pattern that is not being broken. Spur of the moment frustration is one thing, but a build up of frustration only happens when the same frustrating thing happens several times or more.

Do I think Tubby is a failure? No. But he certainly hasn't set the world on fire since he's been here and there are plenty of reasons for folks, both fans and media, to be firing away at him and his team. Souhan (to my great surprise) actually touched on my biggest pet peave with Tubby; his appearance of disinterest at times.

Saw it several times last year and apparently it happened again against Northwestern. That is totally unacceptable for a millionaire coach.
 

bga1 said:
The problem I see is that Tubby has been a tease. He starts with these gaudy records and then the team tends to get worse- last season's post season run was the exception and even there it seems to me that the run came when the guys just started playing like they had nothing to fear or lose.

With teams like MSU, Wisconsin, Purdue, you look at those squads and it seems like a lot of years they start out slow and we say- they don't have the talent they used to have. But by mid-season they are right back playing like they always do. It seems that with those teams the character of the coach is shown in the growth of the team. The coach wins them over and get's buy in. I am seeing the reverse with a lot of Tubby's teams.

Has he been unlucky? In prior years- yes. This year he has been very, very lucky. Rodney passed on a possible draft, and Trevor got a 6th year and there have been no injuries that have cost serious playing time. The jury is out on this year. To me anything less than 11-7 (which is still very achievable) is underachieving given this talent.
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Well said. While it would be great to have a team that went wire-to-wire playing well, it's far less frustrating to watch a team struggle early and get better. Even Monson's last (full) team managed that. They weren't good, but they pulled off some nice upsets at the end.
 




bga1 said:
The problem I see is that Tubby has been a tease. He starts with these gaudy records and then the team tends to get worse when the best players on the team are lost to season-ending injuries
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Fixed it for you.
 

Rouser said:
My opinion is Souhan is like most on this board. Knee jerk reaction types. Tubby, like the players, have plenty of blame to go around. However, man up folks. I am actually shocked at how offended folks are at Tubby's post game comments. I've read them over and over and still do not see the problem. Maybe all the local players on the team get people defensive. Maybe we were so excited to hear Final Four and Gophers in same sentence that we are angry and lashing out.. I don't know. So magically, the team got lucky in its earlier big wins over MSU, Memphis, FSU, Stanford, etc? Its a long season.. if we melt down and do not recover, then I will join others in talking about how we may need to look into other options at coach. That said, its 3 F'ing games folks. We actually have played well for much of the season. Too bad Tubby couldn't hit wide open shots against NW.. the claims of poor coaching costing us that game are insane and ignore the fact that we couldn't hit an open shot. The team was creating open shots and missed them. We rebounded got to the line and missed. Many turnovers were not forced..just bonehead plays. Tubby should have gotten Austin out quicker, but Austin deserves blame for a bonehead decision. So blame tubby for not recruiting smarter players I guess..but if thats the case, don't claim the team is great and he cannot win with a great team. If it is a great team, did he not put it together? Bottom line, this team has talent to go far and Tubby recognizes it and is hard on them as a result. I think Tubby senses its a team that can go far.. not sure holding hands and prayer sessions and sing alongs are what is needed. Is he too hard? Maybe a tad, but its not like he is throwing chairs and calling players names. My god we are sensitive.

Now is a critical time. The team was mentally tough earlier in the year.. they have been fragile the past few games. I will agree with everyone on one thing.. the next few games will be telling for the season and Tubby. Its on him if we tailspin.. either for poor coaching or recruiting the wrong mix of players. However, I for one and willing to let it play out before I grab a torch and run to Tubby's house at midnight.
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The last week wasn't an isolated ocurrence. This is Tubby's sixth season and the only success he's had was with Monson's guys. He's running a consistently sub .500 B1G program.

The rational, thoughtful Kentucky fans (not the mean spirited ones) who visited this board the first few months after Tubby hired himself were spot on. We just didn't want to believe it.
 

jamiche said:
The last week wasn't an isolated ocurrence. This is Tubby's sixth season and the only success he's had was with Monson's guys. He's running a consistently sub .500 B1G program.

The rational, thoughtful Kentucky fans (not the mean spirited ones) who visited this board the first few months after Tubby hired himself were spot on. We just didn't want to believe it.
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Well Monson couldn't win with "Monsons guys" so someone had to.
 

I don't think many would argue that this is Tubby's "put up or shut up" year. This is his best starting 5, a reasonably favorable schedule, and *knock on wood* a healthy roster. The excuses have been used up. Outrage will and should be high if this squad doesn't make the Tourney. Hell, Trevor will have to pay back is scholarship (*gulp*).

But a pair of rough halfs against 2 top 10 teams (and one in probably the toughest current venue in the Big 10), and a bad stumble against Northwestern is not a reason to believe all promise is gone (as Souhan indicated with his 'once promising' statement). Tubby's finger pointing may not be popular or effective (admittedly, I'm not thrilled about it), but it's a bit early to start hand-wringing, isn't it?
 



I'm so shocked that Souhan chose this moment to come out out of his hole, where were you when the team was winning updating your eharmony account?
 

Souhan was kissing tubbys rear a couple of weeks ago now the two faced back stabber does a hack job after tubbys first upset as more than a 2 point fav. this season
 


It's our only bad loss of the season people lets keep our heads up! Wait until the end of the season before you rip up tubby . This was one bad loss.
 

bga1 said:
The jury is out on this year. To me anything less than 11-7 (which is still very achievable) is underachieving given this talent.
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Agree with this.. lets wait until the end of the season before we burn tubby's house down..all I am saying
 

jamiche said:
The last week wasn't an isolated ocurrence. This is Tubby's sixth season and the only success he's had was with Monson's guys. He's running a consistently sub .500 B1G program.

The rational, thoughtful Kentucky fans (not the mean spirited ones) who visited this board the first few months after Tubby hired himself were spot on. We just didn't want to believe it.
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So he made the tourney with someone else's players at Tulsa and Georgia too? Of course.. what do we expect him to do?

This is the first time he has a full squad and he may very well crap the bed..but I have seen enough positives this year to believe we can snap out of the funk and finish strong. Will we? Thats up for debate but I am not ready to say FU&K YOU TUBBY after a bad road loss to Northwestern. If we finish .500 or worse in Big Ten, I will be as upset as 99% of folks are right now.
 

brucekaupa said:
Already forgotten about the first half against Indiana and the second half against Michigan, eh?
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Or the second half against MSU or first half against FSU and USC or the final 10 minutes against Memphis or Stanford.
 

This is more than just "1 bad game." It's a trend (at least IMHO).

Gophs start season in promising fashion - then gets into B1G schedule; begins to struggle; Tubby blames players (while never accepting responsiblity for team's problems); and the players are unable to execute in key situations.

How many times do you have to watch Tubby's teams stagnate in the half-court offense? How many times do you have to see the unforced turnovers and the questionable shot selection? How many times do you have to watch the other team make the right play at the right time to win a game, and wonder why the Gophs can't do that?

You can choose to look for the silver lining - but I see a big ugly cloud, and I'm fastening the shutters before the storm hits.

Look - I could be wrong........Maybe they'll turn it around, make a run in the B1G tournament, and finally win a game in the NCAA tournament. Or, I could be right, in which case the horrow show is just beginning.
 

Oops - forgot to add this --

I was at a HS game the other night, and talked to a very well-regarded coach. This coach was laughing at the Goph's inability to deal with the 1-3-1 zone.
 

Really cant put unforced turnovers or bad shot selection on tubby he can't control that and how do you know tubby isn't telling them the right things to do and the players just are not doing it. These are all D1 players they should know the right thing to do.... But I do agree if we end up not makin it in to the big dance I will be just as mad as the rest of you.
 


Rouser said:
Agree with this.. lets wait until the end of the season before we burn tubby's house down..all I am saying
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We are a people of remarkable patience here, west of the river. A topic of conversation on this board and in the community in general is why do our teams suck and our neighbors' to the east do so much better, particularly the hated Packers and the Badgers' BB and football teams. One major factor is that they are dead serious about winning and are surly and impatient about it. They fired Ray Rhodes after one season when the team went 8-8, and had they not there would have been unrest in the streets. They fired Mike Sherman after the team had won three division titles in four years and gone to the playoffs in four of the five previous years. The Badgers fired Stan Van Gundy after only two years, the second of which was a 7-11, 9th-place finish in the league - better than our program's last two. Around here we would have retained Brad Soderberg and given him every chance and then some to make it work, and then maybe given up after an 8 or 9 year experiment. And as has been discussed at length, no manager in major league history has ever had back to back seasons like Gardenhire's last two with the Twins and retained their job.

Not that we need to keep a bloody ax in the corner all the time, but I feel we would do well to be a little more demanding as a fan base, a little more surly and impatient, especially considering the amount of money we pay to watch them and buy their gear and the degree of emotional investment we make in them.
 

Nothing wrong with being demanding and ornery as a fanbase, but realistically how much does a disgruntled body of fans affect a pro team or universities hire-n-fire policies. Barry Alvarez would have been run from town after 3 straight losing seasons. Packer fans wanted the head of Ted Thompson before Aaron Rodgers developed as a player. You think Matt Millen would have lasted more than 3 years in Detroit? You can find cases to support both the patient and quick-trigger viewpoint.

Perhaps a good chunk of this fanbase is too patient (I'm no doubt guiltier than most). But I think given our starting point for new coaches, I expect a little more rope is a necessity to get things turned. Tubby's near the end of his. Kill has yards left yet, IMO.

I can't explain Gardenhire though at all. That one vexes me. Glad I'm a Tiger fan.
 

Bad Gopher said:
We are a people of remarkable patience here, west of the river. A topic of conversation on this board and in the community in general is why do our teams suck and our neighbors' to the east do so much better, particularly the hated Packers and the Badgers' BB and football teams. One major factor is that they are dead serious about winning and are surly and impatient about it. They fired Ray Rhodes after one season when the team went 8-8, and had they not there would have been unrest in the streets. They fired Mike Sherman after the team had won three division titles in four years and gone to the playoffs in four of the five previous years. The Badgers fired Stan Van Gundy after only two years, the second of which was a 7-11, 9th-place finish in the league - better than our program's last two. Around here we would have retained Brad Soderberg and given him every chance and then some to make it work, and then maybe given up after an 8 or 9 year experiment. And as has been discussed at length, no manager in major league history has ever had back to back seasons like Gardenhire's last two with the Twins and retained their job.

Not that we need to keep a bloody ax in the corner all the time, but I feel we would do well to be a little more demanding as a fan base, a little more surly and impatient, especially considering the amount of money we pay to watch them and buy their gear and the degree of emotional investment we make in them.
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Lest we forget Pam Borton (should have been axed after the 2006 mutiny, no tournaments since 2009, and turning a near-revenue sport into a discouraged afterthought), Denny Green, and Brad Childress.
 

Gopher Bandanna Guy said:
Nothing wrong with being demanding and ornery as a fanbase, but realistically how much does a disgruntled body of fans affect a pro team or universities hire-n-fire policies. Barry Alvarez would have been run from town after 3 straight losing seasons. Packer fans wanted the head of Ted Thompson before Aaron Rodgers developed as a player. You think Matt Millen would have lasted more than 3 years in Detroit? You can find cases to support both the patient and quick-trigger viewpoint.

Perhaps a good chunk of this fanbase is too patient (I'm no doubt guiltier than most). But I think given our starting point for new coaches, I expect a little more rope is a necessity to get things turned. Tubby's near the end of his. Kill has yards left yet, IMO.

I can't explain Gardenhire though at all. That one vexes me. Glad I'm a Tiger fan.
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I can only speak for myself, but this becomes a bigger issue for me the more days I cross off the calendar. The years start to go by faster, and the prospect of dying before the Vikes win the big one or the major Gopher sports get over the hump is becoming bigger and more real.
 

I hope and pray the Team Working Together can lift the bus and get Tubby out from underneath it! I don't like everything I hear and see, but there is still time. Adversity makes people look from within and make changes and it also can make success even sweeter. Good Luck to the Gopher team and coaching staff!
 

GopherRock said:
Lest we forget Pam Borton (should have been axed after the 2006 mutiny, no tournaments since 2009, and turning a near-revenue sport into a discouraged afterthought), Denny Green, and Brad Childress.
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Sad thing is since Tubby's been at Minnesota, Borton actually has an NCAA tournament win
 

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