Jim Souhan column: Gophers, and their coach, need to suck it up

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Well, in some ways he is right. You would never see Painter recruit Mav, Ingram or Chip. The depth on this team is bad. Transfers? Who is responsible for those?
 


I decided to read it out of curiosity. How bad could it be? Unfortunately, I had forgotten a similar impulse once inspired me to search out a film called Human Centipede. I thought then what I had seen could never be topped. The crude depravity, the uninspired lazy brutality, the horrible inaccuracies (seriously, some things just aren't meant to be ingested, and I'm guessing would probably kill you). But then I read this astounding effort from Jim. You know, Jim's doggedly determined, there's no question. Pat Reusse, wheezing like an ol' Model T, keeps trying to pass him on the left, and jump out in front as worst sports writer in the history of the written word (not including cuneiform). But just when Pat thinks it's finally safe to break open the customary celebratory double-crave-case, Jim Souhan steps back into to gently but firmly reassert his place on top of Poo Mountain. But he's really exceeded himself this time. I think this column is so unnecessarily bitter, so 2-1/2-Men-level painfully unfunny, and so plain foolish, that I think Souhan may have jumped into the conversation for least intelligent American. There are some political figures out to pretty commanding leads, but if he keeps up this pace, he just might have a chance to catch 'em. I KNOW YOU CAN DO IT, JIMMY. Now Sid, if you were reading this out loud for Jimmy, please stop right here. I don't want his feelings to get hurt.

Souhan sucks.
 


maliksealy said:
How the hell is this a bad article? Everything is accurate and it all makes sense.
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Some people are never happy. No matter what the article is, if it's Souhan it's bad everytime
 

Regrettably everything Souhan says is right on. Really folks, except for Trevor, consider the rest of the roster. Would any of them be even be recruited by the likes of Wisc., Purdue, Ohio St., Mich. St, or Ill.? Tubby's a great guy with sound values but recruiting is not one of his strengths.

All the guys on the team are his players. Do any of you think that there is one player on our team right now that would start for any of the teams I mentioned earlier? Or for Northwestern? Or for Michigan?

There's plenty of players on those rosters that would be great additions to our team!
 

I don't understand how any Gopher fan could have a problem with Souhan's article other than his attempt to minimize the importance of a practice facility. The point of the article was that Tubby has recruited this entire roster and that losing Trevor should not be an excuse for a bad season. Tubby went out and signed a JUCO PF this Spring, the staff should feel ok about him stepping in for Trevor. If they don't, then they made an error in signing him. It's one thing to (rightfully) say that a top 3 finish in the Big Ten is now out of the question, but it's another to give Tubby a free pass to finish in the bottom 4 of the league.
 

gbbfan said:
Regrettably everything Souhan says is right on. Really folks, except for Trevor, consider the rest of the roster. Would any of them be even be recruited by the likes of Wisc., Purdue, Ohio St., Mich. St, or Ill.? Tubby's a great guy with sound values but recruiting is not one of his strengths.

All the guys on the team are his players. Do any of you think that there is one player on our team right now that would start for any of the teams I mentioned earlier? Or for Northwestern? Or for Michigan?

There's plenty of players on those rosters that would be great additions to our team!
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That's way too far. Most of the teams you mentioned would glady take Austin, Andre, Ralph, and probably Rodney. It's too early to tell, but if Welch continues his current play then most teams would take him too. What's hurt the Gophers (IMO) is choosing to continually fill scholarships with Spring recruits when an unexpected exit occurs. All of a sudden half of our roster is filled up with guys recruited in the Spring which is entirely unacceptable. I don't believe Tubby has signed one player in the Fall signing period that did not have significant offers from solid programs. The most recent class is probably his weakest, yet Buggs had offers from Arkansas and others while Ellenson had offers from West Virginia and Oklahoma State.
 



I won't click the article because know its worthless

Let me guess...Gophers suck....Barn is dead...players are lame...Tubby is washed up...player injuries are not excuses...the AD sucks...time for a new coach etc, etc. Am I right?

Is this how Suohan (sp? who cares?) earns a living? He must have a full-time job right?
 

The problem is alot of these spring recruits wouldn't be here if it wasn't for departures. We signed Chip, Mav and Otto because Royce White, Paul Carter and Cobbs left. Welch and Ingram are here because Devoe and Iverson left. Personally I like Chip and Welch and I think Otto will be alright, but those are some damn good players that could still be here. Now the departures, the only one I would remotely blame Tubby for is Iverson, not sure what happened there, but Royce, Cobbs being homesick and not playing alot, Carter and his family and Devoe's off cout issues those are just unfortunate breaks, story of Minnesota sports. Last year it was Al Nolan, this year its Mbakwe. As for Souhan, he doesn't have a clue about the practice facility and there's a huge anti gopher crowd at the strib, the only homer is sid because he's old enough to remember when the gophers were ther only thing in town.
 

bemidjigopher said:
The problem is alot of these spring recruits wouldn't be here if it wasn't for departures. We signed Chip, Mav and Otto because Royce White, Paul Carter and Cobbs left. Welch and Ingram are here because Devoe and Iverson left. Personally I like Chip and Welch and I think Otto will be alright, but those are some damn good players that could still be here. Now the departures, the only one I would remotely blame Tubby for is Iverson, not sure what happened there, but Royce, Cobbs being homesick and not playing alot, Carter and his family and Devoe's off cout issues those are just unfortunate breaks, story of Minnesota sports. Last year it was Al Nolan, this year its Mbakwe. As for Souhan, he doesn't have a clue about the practice facility and there's a huge anti gopher crowd at the strib, the only homer is sid because he's old enough to remember when the gophers were ther only thing in town.
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+1
I've actually heard someone blame Tubby for Carter leaving. Totally Tubby's fault his sister had(has?) cancer.
 

Wait. Wha? Souhan doing a hatchet job on a Gopher athletic program? Couldn't be...

What troubles me most about this article is how severely he underestimates Trevor's worth to the team as a whole.
"When fans and analysts predict doom for the Gophers basketball team because of an injury to a player who was a second-team Big Ten performer as a junior and is averaging 14 points as a senior, what they're really doing is demonstrating just how tepid Smith's tenure has been."

Right Jim, that's all Trevor was worth to this team in 2011-12. Never mind his leadership on the floor, his arguable status as one of the best rebounders in the country, and his expanded range with the jumper. Gimme a break. You're telling me that if Wisconsin loses Jordan Taylor or Northwestern loses Shurna, they can just pick up the pieces with out much trouble?

More deep college basketball analysis from Mr. Baldy McWhimperson. Oh, wait that's the coach of #12 Xavier, not Dim Jim. My mistake.
 



Gopher Bandanna Guy said:
Wait. Wha? Souhan doing a hatchet job on a Gopher athletic program? Couldn't be...

What troubles me most about this article is how severely he underestimates Trevor's worth to the team as a whole.
"When fans and analysts predict doom for the Gophers basketball team because of an injury to a player who was a second-team Big Ten performer as a junior and is averaging 14 points as a senior, what they're really doing is demonstrating just how tepid Smith's tenure has been."

Right Jim, that's all Trevor was worth to this team in 2011-12. Never mind his leadership on the floor, his arguable status as one of the best rebounders in the country, and his expanded range with the jumper. Gimme a break. You're telling me that if Wisconsin loses Jordan Taylor or Northwestern loses Shurna, they can just pick up the pieces with out much trouble?

More deep college basketball analysis from Mr. Baldy McWhimperson. Oh, wait that's the coach of #12 Xavier, not Dim Jim. My mistake.
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I don't get your take. Souhan is saying that losing Mbakwe is not an excuse for a poor season. He never states that the Gophers should be as good with Trevor, just that losing a player like Trevor should not make a losing Big Ten season acceptable. He's not ripping on the Gophers, he's stating that Tubby should have enough talent on his roster to allow the Gophers to have a solid season. The Gophers should not be in a position to be one player away from "doom" if Tubby is doing his job. Your comparison to Northwestern is completely invalid. Tubby is being paid two million dollars a year and you don't compare his results to what would happen at a school that has never even been to the NCAA tournament. As for Wisconsin, if they lose Jordan Taylor, nobody would be satisfied with them missing the NCAA tournament.
 

jmag21 said:
I decided to read it out of curiosity. How bad could it be? Unfortunately, I had forgotten a similar impulse once inspired me to search out a film called Human Centipede. I thought then what I had seen could never be topped. The crude depravity, the uninspired lazy brutality, the horrible inaccuracies (seriously, some things just aren't meant to be ingested, and I'm guessing would probably kill you). But then I read this astounding effort from Jim. You know, Jim's doggedly determined, there's no question. Pat Reusse, wheezing like an ol' Model T, keeps trying to pass him on the left, and jump out in front as worst sports writer in the history of the written word (not including cuneiform). But just when Pat thinks it's finally safe to break open the customary celebratory double-crave-case, Jim Souhan steps back into to gently but firmly reassert his place on top of Poo Mountain. But he's really exceeded himself this time. I think this column is so unnecessarily bitter, so 2-1/2-Men-level painfully unfunny, and so plain foolish, that I think Souhan may have jumped into the conversation for least intelligent American. There are some political figures out to pretty commanding leads, but if he keeps up this pace, he just might have a chance to catch 'em. I KNOW YOU CAN DO IT, JIMMY. Now Sid, if you were reading this out loud for Jimmy, please stop right here. I don't want his feelings to get hurt.

Souhan sucks.
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I can't believe no one else has commented on this. Priceless. It has to be the first Human Centipede reference on the Gopherhole.
 

point of the article was that Tubby has recruited this entire roster and that losing Trevor should not be an excuse for a bad season.
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Does Souhan quote somebody showing that Tubby or the Gophers are using Trevor's injury as an excuse for a bad season? If yes, then I guess they're due some criticism. But if not, then what is the point? Might as well be a column pleading not to hire Jerry Sandusky.
 

sunnyday2 said:
Does Souhan quote somebody showing that Tubby or the Gophers are using Trevor's injury as an excuse for a bad season? If yes, then I guess they're due some criticism. But if not, then what is the point? Might as well be a column pleading not to hire Jerry Sandusky.
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"Gophers make poor decision with consideration of Sandusky"

Tomorrows headline.
 

EG#9 said:
I don't get your take. Souhan is saying that losing Mbakwe is not an excuse for a poor season. He never states that the Gophers should be as good with Trevor, just that losing a player like Trevor should not make a losing Big Ten season acceptable. He's not ripping on the Gophers, he's stating that Tubby should have enough talent on his roster to allow the Gophers to have a solid season. The Gophers should not be in a position to be one player away from "doom" if Tubby is doing his job. Your comparison to Northwestern is completely invalid. Tubby is being paid two million dollars a year and you don't compare his results to what would happen at a school that has never even been to the NCAA tournament. As for Wisconsin, if they lose Jordan Taylor, nobody would be satisfied with them missing the NCAA tournament.
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Well stated. And BTW- I think Wisky (sadly) would make the NCAAs if Taylor (All American) went down. Let's hope that the Gophers and Tubby can do the same.
 

bga1 said:
Well stated. And BTW- I think Wisky (sadly) would make the NCAAs if Taylor (All American) went down. Let's hope that the Gophers and Tubby can do the same.
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Agreed. If the loss of one player can destroy a team, then it is no team at all. I still think we will do well, and expect the same. If this team misses the tournament, than this program is not where it needs to be 5 years into Tubby's reign.
 

EG#9 said:
I don't get your take. Souhan is saying that losing Mbakwe is not an excuse for a poor season. He never states that the Gophers should be as good with Trevor, just that losing a player like Trevor should not make a losing Big Ten season acceptable. He's not ripping on the Gophers, he's stating that Tubby should have enough talent on his roster to allow the Gophers to have a solid season. The Gophers should not be in a position to be one player away from "doom" if Tubby is doing his job. Your comparison to Northwestern is completely invalid. Tubby is being paid two million dollars a year and you don't compare his results to what would happen at a school that has never even been to the NCAA tournament. As for Wisconsin, if they lose Jordan Taylor, nobody would be satisfied with them missing the NCAA tournament.
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Most GHers would prefer to piss and moan about the media.

EDIT: And BTW I agree....about your post that is.
 

Well, I'm pretty sure that I can figure out the column without clicking on it. I guess I would read it on here if someone did a copy/paste, but I refuse to give that POS a click.
 

I think alot of this perspective comes from the teams results last year after the loss of Nolen. The timing of Trevors injury is different than last year. They have time to try a few different lineups against inferior oponents before entering the Big Ten season. They might find a lineup that can be more successfull than we think and win a few games in the process before the Big Ten season starts.

i think we'll have an idea by the time conference play begins, in the meantime it is going to be a bumpy ride.
 

gbbfan said:
Regrettably everything Souhan says is right on. Really folks, except for Trevor, consider the rest of the roster. Would any of them be even be recruited by the likes of Wisc., Purdue, Ohio St., Mich. St, or Ill.? Tubby's a great guy with sound values but recruiting is not one of his strengths.

All the guys on the team are his players. Do any of you think that there is one player on our team right now that would start for any of the teams I mentioned earlier? Or for Northwestern? Or for Michigan?

There's plenty of players on those rosters that would be great additions to our team!
Click to expand...

You can rip Tubby's ability to coach, keep players in the program and develop players, but I don't know how anyone can rip on his recruiting. Sampson was recruited by some pretty comparable programs to those you listed including Kentucky, Rodney Williams was offered by Wisconsin, Austin Hollins was offered by Memphis, Mo Walker was offered by a bunch including UConn and Pitt. and Oto had an offer from Florida. And what about some of the guys that aren't here anymore: Iverson-Florida, White-Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan St, Joseph-Kansas, Michigan, Texas A&M

These are all guys who had other offers from some of the teams you listed or from programs pretty comparable to those you listed. I would say recruiting has been his biggest strength. Developing and keeping those guys in the program has been his biggest weakness.
 

Souhan's far from my favorite columnist in the Twin Cities & I haven't read the entire column, but I certainly don't have a problem with the column's heading. The heading is correct, and I'd add more to it:

"Gophers, their coach, and their fans need to suck it up."

The easy, convenient thing to do now would be to ditch the Gophers. I hope that's not what occurs.
 

My only problem is the heading. In order for someone to suck it up, usually they were whining in the first place. I haven't heard the Gophers or their coach whine about this situation.
 

GophersInIowa said:
You can rip Tubby's ability to coach, keep players in the program and develop players, but I don't know how anyone can rip on his recruiting. Sampson was recruited by some pretty comparable programs to those you listed including Kentucky, Rodney Williams was offered by Wisconsin, Austin Hollins was offered by Memphis, Mo Walker was offered by a bunch including UConn and Pitt. and Oto had an offer from Florida. And what about some of the guys that aren't here anymore: Iverson-Florida, White-Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan St, Joseph-Kansas, Michigan, Texas A&M

These are all guys who had other offers from some of the teams you listed or from programs pretty comparable to those you listed. I would say recruiting has been his biggest strength. Developing and keeping those guys in the program has been his biggest weakness.
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Gophers in Iowa-

I would agree that by Minnesota standards Tubby's recruiting has been pretty good and he has had to suffer through a couple of lousy Minnesota HS crops.

The two issues I see with Tubbys recruiting are:

1. There is a perception that he is living on his reputation and name in getting the guys he has gotten. It's great that he has that name brand. However, he feels to me like a great salesperson that is on his way down milking his old relationships and not moving in fresh directions. When you read reports on recruits- other than Tyus- it always seems that Tubby and company are late to the party and not pushing as hard as a hungry coach might. So the recruits have been good but there is the feeling among a lot of folks that it could be better and that is frustrating.

2. His recruiting has not seemed to put players together that have complementary skills. Shooters to go with athletes. Playmakers and natural point guards to go with big men and bangers. I am encouraged by the shooters in this last class, but in general he seems to go with athletes over basketball players and there either has to be a balance OR the ability to develop the skills of those athletes over time. Certainly the failure to recruit a true PG druing his tenure has hurt the perception of his recruiting. That said I am a big fan of Andre Hollins and have hopes he may get there in addition to his natural scoring abilities. His system seems to be difficult for guards to run - so it is possible that it is not the recruiting so much as the older systems.

Bo Ryan is not a great recruiter, but he is great at recrutiing guys that fit together in his system. Then his ability to develop them has made his recruiting work really well. To succeed big time you either need to be a great recruiter or a great developer of the talent you bring in. If guys leave- that's life- you are responsible for who you recruit regardless. That's life in the big world of $2 million contracts.
 

Bingo on Tubby's recruiting. Let's be honest, he won more games and got to the dance with Monson's recruits. DJ, Westbrook, Nolen, Hoff, etc. White, Williams and Trevor would have come to MN with any good hire. Mav, Ingram, Chip, Oto, these guys were not heavily recruited by anyone. I don't care if they were spring recruits or not. If you have depth in recruiting you do not stoop to this level of players.
 

Gold Vision said:
My only problem is the heading. In order for someone to suck it up, usually they were whining in the first place. I haven't heard the Gophers or their coach whine about this situation.
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Fair enough, though I'm not saying either Tubby or the players have whined about their fate since Mbakwe went down. They need to "suck it up" in terms of dealing with the adversity and not cave in to what a lot folks are expecting (a freefall). The fans, too.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Fair enough, though I'm not saying either Tubby or the players have whined about their fate since Mbakwe went down. They need to "suck it up" in terms of dealing with the adversity and not cave in to what a lot folks are expecting (a freefall). The fans, too.
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I hear you. Can't wait to see how they play tonight. Rebounding and turnovers are keys tonight.
 

minngg said:
Bingo on Tubby's recruiting. Let's be honest, he won more games and got to the dance with Monson's recruits. DJ, Westbrook, Nolen, Hoff, etc. White, Williams and Trevor would have come to MN with any good hire. Mav, Ingram, Chip, Oto, these guys were not heavily recruited by anyone. I don't care if they were spring recruits or not. If you have depth in recruiting you do not stoop to this level of players.
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"stoop to this level of players". Awesome. Glad to hear you've made your final determination on the quality of the roster from top to bottom. I have no doubt they are delighted to have your unconditional support.

I'll reserve my opinion on Tubby's recruiting ability until I see a year or two without some roster upheaval, whether it's due to injury, legal issues, or departures. Some of that is unquestionably on Tubby himself, but it doesn't change the fact that it's had an enormous impact on the on-court success.
 

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