Jerry Kill Slams PJ

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fair said:
<b>I don't think anyone really disagrees that PJ is about himself to a large degree. </b>But I'm not sure what Kill is trying to accomplish by saying this, or why he thinks he's in a place to do so. By winning the Axe, PJ already has a bigger legacy at the U than Kill could get in his tenure.
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Many do. Many have already posted as much in this thread. The rest of your post is spot on. Not a good look for Kill.


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the_matthman said:
Heather Fleck chimes in…
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Mr. and Mrs. Fleck appearing to take the high road on this.
 
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upnorthkid said:
Why? That makes Kill look even worse seeing it in writing. <b>PJ has never said there was bad culture or bad people. </b>Makes Kill look like he’s grasping at straws and bitter
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You might have to see more than his presser transcript to make this statement.


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Spoofin said:
Again, PJ throws his players under the bus as much, if not more than, Kill. This is the wrong tree to bark up here.


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Can you tell me where the line is on discussing a player after a loss or throwing someone under the bus.

I saw you called out Howden as being thrown under the bus more than any other player and I watched the same press conferences post-game as you probably did. PJ did mention Howden and how he was young, inexperienced, etc., and that he'll get better, but at all times, PJ put the blame for losses on himself.

Point being, I didn't take that as throwing Howden under the bus, but you seem to. Am I missing some other details?
 

Face The Facts said:
Can you tell me where the line is on discussing a player after a loss or throwing someone under the bus.

I saw you called out Howden as being thrown under the bus more than any other player and I watched the same press conferences post-game as you probably did. PJ did mention Howden and how he was young, inexperienced, etc., and that he'll get better, but at all times, PJ put the blame for losses on himself.

Point being, I didn't take that as throwing Howden under the bus, but you seem to. Am I missing some other details?
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Can’t remember the game or words, but it went something like, “it’s on me. I’m the one who chose to play a freshman that wasn’t ready. I’m the one who chose to play him even tho he isn’t fast enough, etc. etc. It’s on me”

That’s not really taking the blame. There was a whole thread on PJ “taking the blame”.


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Spoofin said:
Can’t remember the game or words, but it went something like, “it’s on me. I’m the one who chose to play a freshman that wasn’t ready. I’m the one who chose to play him even tho he isn’t fast enough, etc. etc. It’s on me”

That’s not really taking the blame. There was a whole thread on PJ “taking the blame”.


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He did say that.

In the context the player was a freshman walk-on and was replacing probably one of your smartest and best defensive players, I don't think that's throwing Howden under the bus.

If Fleck came out and said, "we lost today because our walk-on kept missing tackles", that to me would be throwing him under the bus.
Just because you're smart enough to dot the lines as to why the loss occurred doesn't mean he's throwing him under the bus.

I'm a Fleck-fan though so I'm probably giving him more of a pass on this.

After the fact, it appears Fleck should have been blaming Robb Smith in those games.
 

I wish I could have heard the phone conversation Kill had with PJ the "last time they talked". I bet it was a doozy. So bad that after all these years Kill still had it boiling down in him. Hopefully after letting it all out inappropriately the way he did he can finally get over this. I had a lot of respect for JK, but he lost some the way he is handling this. At some point as an adult he's got to let bygones be bygones and get over it.
 

MennoSota said:
Point is PJ changed. You can think it was for good or for bad, but he changed. He changed enough that the woman who once loved him and bore his children felt she needed a divorce. This is simply fact.
Again, being a prick doesn't mean PJ isn't or won't be a very good coach.
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Or maybe HE needed a divorce. Why are you stating this is simply fact when you actually know nothing about their situation?
 

Face The Facts said:
He did say that.

In the context the player was a freshman walk-on and was replacing probably one of your smartest and best defensive players, I don't think that's throwing Howden under the bus.

If Fleck came out and said, "we lost today because our walk-on kept missing tackles", that to me would be throwing him under the bus.
Just because you're smart enough to dot the lines as to why the loss occurred doesn't mean he's throwing him under the bus.

I'm a Fleck-fan though so I'm probably giving him more of a pass on this.

After the fact, it appears Fleck should have been blaming Robb Smith in those games.
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I would argue that saying a player isn’t fast enough isn’t much different than saying he misses tackles. Potato Potato (flashback to SNL skit).

Almost doesn’t matter. I don’t really have an issue with a coach calling a spade a spade. Kill or PJ. I do with someone making multiple posts about how PJ doesn’t do something he does.


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bottlebass said:
I wish I could have heard the phone conversation Kill had with PJ the "last time they talked". I bet it was a doozy. So bad that after all these years Kill still had it boiling down in him. Hopefully after letting it all out inappropriately the way he did he can finally get over this. I had a lot of respect for JK, but he lost some the way he is handling this. At some point as an adult he's got to let bygones be bygones and get over it.
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True Dat. This does nothing to help Kill. Regardless of what happened, PJ will take the high road here and only Kill will end up looking bad. Really disappointed in JK.


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My take away is this. I appreciated what Kill and Claeys did while they were at the U. I’ve always stuck up for them in that regard, but I absolutely believe Fleck can and will bring us to new heights.

With that said, seeing Kill trying to attack our program should make it easier for some portion of our fan base to let go of the Kill years, grab an oar, and start paddling with the rest of us.
 

MennoSota said:
I found one of the comments interesting. I can't say if it's true.
"That same Title IX investigation has since had half the decisions overturned on appeal, the accuser switch her story multiple times, and Minnesota is now facing a $45 million dollar lawsuit. It's the definition of messy."

Is UMN facing a $45 million dollar lawsuit?
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I believe that is Duluth. But all the campuses are legally just “The University of Minnesota” ?
 




the_matthman said:
Heather Fleck chimes in…

https://twitter.com/hfleck10/status/1098190676599148544?s=21
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Oof, I guess Heather really is the type that puts the "If you can't handle me at me worst, you don't deserve me at my best" memes on Facebook 4 times a day.


It's hard to argue that a coach who plasters his own personal brand all over the uniforms is anything but all about himself.

That said, this is a really bad look for Jerry, especially since he's the figurehead of another school's athletic department now. The divorce insinuation is especially egregious, specifically with the loss of a child as a factor.
 

Unregistered User said:
In your short time on this board, you've typed a lot of words here.

You should rethink that strategy.
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Yeah I know, you don’t care about principle, so long as we win.

Just hope like heck that every cent of royalties that is being paid to Fleck, personally, because he owns and has trademarked the “Row the Boat” brand, and so it has to be licensed from him to be used .... I really hope he’s donating 100% of that money towards research of childhood diseases or to help families fighting those diseases. Please, please, please .... don’t let it come out that he’s just banking that money.
 

MGGopher said:
Where is all the evidence that Fleck is all about himself?

I agree he's not shy in front of a mic.
I agree he's confident in his abilities and the process he uses for developing young men.
I agree he uses hokey phrases and motivational methods.

Does that make him all about himself? I see the exact opposite.

He preaches a culture of service -- and actually expects players to live it out.
He apparently spends a lot of time meeting individually with players and connecting with them personally (the stories about his chats with Mo).
Sounds like the kids love playing for him.
He promotes the program harder than any coach I can remember.
He does things like send text messages to equipment managers on their wedding anniversaries. I barely remember my own.

I don't know that he's NOT all about himself (perhaps he's an arrogant, egomaniacal b@$tard IRL), but I don't think anyone can say that definitively based on the evidence.
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Well said!
 

Triple D said:
I don't really have a problem with anything Kill said. To those criticizing Kill ask yourself this.....if it's true Kill helped Fleck get the WMU job, even after he bolted on him when Kill was loyal to him and kept him on staff at NIU (shows me Kill has character helping him not once but TWICE), and then Fleck intimates Kill left a bad culture you wouldn't be upset? Come on.

I'm big on being genuine, I treat people the way I'd like to be treated and if Fleck really did start changing and becoming a jerk I'd be upset and if you were honest with yourself you'd be upset too.

I think this is more of a I helped you out and this is the way you treat me kinda deal. I liked and respected Kill, other than not taking care of himself he did some really good things for the program. People not giving Kill credit are making me sick. I was lukewarm on Fleck, he's growing on me - but that has more to do with how the team is doing than knowing him personally......don't understand the shots being taken at either one of them, I reserve that judgment until I sit down and have a beer with someone or meet them in person.
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No, he did not. People should really stop spreading this lie. Fleck had been talking about his culture the same way since he was hired at WMU. He would say the same things if he was hired at Notre Dame.
 

Saying you are coming in and going to change the culture was cool with me. I never knew Jerry would completely overreact to this though.

He never said a word about Kill's culture here. Of course many of you always buy FAKE NEWS!
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
No, he did not. People should really stop spreading this lie. Fleck had been talking about his culture the same way since he was hired at WMU. He would say the same things if he was hired at Notre Dame.
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I agree Notre Dame definitely needs a culture change.
 




HoustonTXGopher said:
I honestly have no idea what caused their divorce and really don't need to know. That is between the two parties involved. However, there is nothing elite about divorce. PJ could be 99% not to blame in the relationship, for all I know.
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This is a ****ing weirdo bizarre take.
 

PJ, like most people, is largely about himself. He puts his own catch phrase on the school uniform.

That said, I don't blame PJ for coming in and doing this "culture this" and "culture that" sort of thing. I really think it's his style more than it was anything to do with Kill/Claeys. Being that he's from Kill's coaching tree, I would have thought he would have went out of his way a bit more to clarify that Kill/Claeys were not a problem (he still is playing a bunch of people they coached/recruited).

However, Kill is in the wrong here. It's time to move on and making headlines blasting the only P5 program to take a chance on you, stand by you when you had medical issues, is a bad look. It's selfish. Kill should have taken the high road.
 

I think it takes a certain ego and audacity to want to be a head football coach, and to do so at a precocious age like both Kill and Fleck did. Nobody rises to that level that fast without a famous football name without occasionally sidestepping the gospel of "team first" and making a few things about themselves and their own ambitions. One guy might be more obvious about it and the other one more subtle, but if Jerry was just in it "for the kids" he would have been a position coach at some FCS school in Kansas. It's a lot easier. But Country Jer has an ego too, and that's OK.

For example, Trump and Obama are very different people but they both share the naked ambition rooted in ego to lead cults of personality, to rule, to be loved, be hated, etc. Most people don't take themselves seriously enough to truly want those types of responsibilities beyond a fantasy.
 

I might as well give my take on it:
1. Kill comes off looking very bad here. He crossed a big line by bringing his ex-wife into it.
2. If Fleck doesn't care about his players, they haven't caught on yet. The players seem to love him and did not give up when things looked really bleak after the Nebraska and Illinois debacles.
3. I have no doubts that Fleck has an ego and he's probably a little bit of a prick too. You HAVE to be in order to make it in the bloodsport that is D-1 college football. For better or for worse, the boy scouts (e.g., Jim Wacker) aren't long for this profession.
4. If Fleck is smart, he will take the high road and not respond. Let bygones be bygones and move on. Ultimately Fleck is going to be judged by the results he produces, then THAT be what speaks for him.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Name one other FBS coach that demands their PERSONAL trademarked brand embedded into the uniform.

Let’s say Fleck wins the Rose Bowl here three years in a row, and then is hired to replace Saben at Alabama.

Will we see oars on Bama’s uniforms???? Good ole boys down there might start donning some bed sheets and have themselves a “night ride” over that, if you catch my drift.


Sorry but that’s the one part of Fleck’s schtick that still sticks in my craw and I won’t be able to get over. All the other stuff, fine.
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I get it, some people don't like that. But how does that prove he does not care about his players? That's the argument here. Having RTB on the helmets doesn't mean he only cares about himself. It means he has an ego. Not really a surprise.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I get it, some people don't like that. But how does that prove he does not care about his players? That's the argument here. Having RTB on the helmets doesn't mean he only cares about himself. It means he has an ego. Not really a surprise.
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It doesn’t prove it. I 100% believe he cares for every player in the program.

This is a tangent that is loosely connected to the idea that he has a big ego. Is just unfortunate to me that we’re desperate enough to win, beat Wisconsin, beat Iowa, etc. that we allow a coach to demand that his own trademarked brand be incorporate into the uniform. Thereby allowing himself to be paid licensing royalties, because of his own demands. Not because the university or team demanded it.
 

Spoofin said:
You might have to see more than his presser transcript to make this statement.


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Give examples then. When has he taken a shot at the previous staff?
 

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