Jerry Kill...is he the right guy?

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Gopherprof said:
I think you've created fond memories of Nelson now that he's gone. He had a few good games, but he also had some dreadful games, and was almost single-handedly responsible for us losing to Syracuse. Hindsight is 20/20, but when he left there were a lot of people who shrugged their shoulders. Disappointment all around.

Not to mention the whole "he's probably going to jail" thing.
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From what I can tell nostalgia is the most powerful force in the universe. From the thread about Nelson leaving:

"Up to this point in his career he has been a massive disappointment, so I don't know if I'd say it's a big blow. Leidner and either Streveler/Mckinzy should be just fine."

"I had pretty high hopes for him coming in but he never really got to that level. Would have liked to see him stay and compete for the starting job but I'm pretty confident that Leidner or Streveler can at least get the job done as well as Nelson has."

"Wouldn't you think he should prove he can pass the ball with consistency in an offense that doesn't ask their QB to do a lot first? That doesn't make any sense at all. I'd get what he is saying if he was completing 65% of his passes and had a 3:1 TD to INT ration or something. If you can't be consistent in this offense, then I don't think you're going to be able to do it in any other offenses. "

"Is this a loss? Yes, he has the most experience of any QB on the roster. However, lets look at this objectively. The two QBs were arguably very close last year. We end up keeping the one with more eligibility. Could be a good thing in the end if Leidner continues to develop. Or, perhaps this leaves the door open for someone else in the next two years and they won't have to unseat an upperclassman who started since he was a freshman."

"I'm not that bummed as others. I wasn't high on Nelson from the get-go. Losing experience hurts more than his talent imo."

"After his performance in the bowl game it is hard to get too worked up about this"

"Also, not that disappointing either. He's a young guy that is extremely confident. Probably beyond his skill level. He had every chance to start and succeed but could not consistently hit the open receiver. Is this a function of the system or the QB's skill set?"

"The more I think about this the more excited I get for Leidner. He is the better option for what we want to do and now he'll get the chance to be the only QB and to gain some confidence with regular playing time."

____
Those quotes are from the first 3 pages of a 37 page thread
 


MNVCGUY said:
Sky definitely isn't falling but there are some cracks in it. To your points:

1 - TCU was also a 4 win team last year. Time will tell where this years squad falls
2 - No shame in losing to TCU on the road but we were non-competitive with them and that is not good.
3 - Major injuries you site are on defense and we all know that is not the unit that is truly holding this team back. Offense for the most part was healthy.
4 - Mitch and the offense were a mess all game, if you look hard enough you can always find positives but it is hard to feel good about pretty much anything the offense did yesterday in my opinion.
5 - The play calling is what it is at this point. To the O-Line play comment, that is not a good thing considering that was supposed to be one of our deeper more experienced position groups heading into the season with lots of guys back with experience.

I can deal just fine with a competitive loss to a Big 12 opponent on the road but that is not what happened yesterday. We did not look like we belonged on the field with them for most of the game and that is not where this program should be at this point. The Big Ten looks like garbage again so the potential is still there for a solid record this year but that game yesterday was not good on pretty much any level.
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Covers it pretty well.
 


I'm willing to wait and see until Kill's first full recruiting class are mostly redshirt SRs. This would be the class that's currently redshirt SOs, so 2 years from now. It feels like we have been saying this the entire Kill era, but the Gophers are still extremely young at all of the skill positions on offense. They're going to continue to take their lumps until they are the same age/experience level as their opponents.

Yesterday's game felt so much like the Iowa game last year. Yet the Gophers offense was worse in that game, against an opponent that is not as good as TCU, and it was at home. The Gophers were able to recover from that, and the drubbing at Michigan the following week to win 8 games. Lets calm down and let B1G play begin before we start jumping to conclusions.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
I'm willing to wait and see until Kill's first full recruiting class are mostly redshirt SRs. This would be the class that's currently redshirt SOs, so 2 years from now. It feels like we have been saying this the entire Kill era, but the Gophers are still extremely young at all of the skill positions on offense. They're going to continue to take their lumps until they are the same age/experience level as their opponents.

Yesterday's game felt so much like the Iowa game last year. Yet the Gophers offense was worse in that game, against an opponent that is not as good as TCU, and it was at home. The Gophers were able to recover from that, and the drubbing at Michigan the following week to win 8 games. Lets calm down and let B1G play begin before we start jumping to conclusions.
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You are correct, for better or for worse, Kill will get another 2 years beyond this one. If we still are stumbling around at 5-7 wins per year, Norwood will look to pick his own guy. Truth is, our QB's have been too young and too inexperienced for several years in a row. And the only solution may be to throw this year to the dogs, let ML start every single game to get that experience and hope we get to 6 wins.
 

TCU is pretty good and we are not as bad as we looked.

The discouraging thing about Phil is how he got worse with more coaching. I'm absolutely convinced he had what it takes to be a functional Big Ten QB. We broke him. Sorry.
 

Northern Illinois fans voiced the same complaints about Limegrover. Kills blood is thicker than water loyalty may end up being is downfall. Strange that Patterson called Maturi back after he had decided on Brewster. What might have been?
 

Fire Kill today. That is the only answer. /s
 



GophersInIowa said:
FYI, in years 3-10 of Mason's time at MN, he averaged 7 wins a year and 3.6 BT wins.
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Sounds about right. Maybe add in a win considering how bad the Big Ten is now and the addition of more mediocre teams that might prevent us from playing Ohio State regularly.
 

I thought you guys would be competing for the west divisional title this year based on your level of improvement the past few years, but that TCU game surprised me and gives me second thoughts.

I definitely think Jerry is still the right coach for you guys... He is a great guy and has proven himself to be a good coach before... But I agree that I can see his loyalty to put performing assistants being his downfall if he doesn't change... This seems to hurt a lot of coaches in the B1G. I feel like he is smarter than that though and while he may give Limegrover an extended chance that's a bit too long for fans, in the end if he doesn't perform he should find him a new job.

It may be a year or two more before you compete for the west title, but I think Jerry gets you there.
 

LongLiveMilesTarver said:
Sounds about right. Maybe add in a win considering how bad the Big Ten is now and the addition of more mediocre teams that might prevent us from playing Ohio State regularly.
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I think it is a wash considering we hardly ever played teams like TCU and Oregon St. (2016-17) in the non conference. In his 10 years, we only played a power conference team in the non conference three times.
 






I can't believe were even having this discussion. Trolls? Its been tough with injuries, playing many young guys, many changes...it will come together.
 

MGGopher said:
Put an average "Power 5" QB on this team and we win 9 games. Put an above average one (Conner Cook?), and we challenge for the B1G. As it stands, I see 6 or 7 wins again. SJSU, Purdue, Illinois are gimmes. NW is likely. Iowa goes either way. Importance of QB play can't be overstated.
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Illinois is not a gimme.
 



I don't know, I hope so, but change isn't in order right now. Programs need some stability to grow.
 

Jerry Kill is the right guy but there are some holes

Studwell55 said:
TCU is pretty good and we are not as bad as we looked.

The discouraging thing about Phil is how he got worse with more coaching. I'm absolutely convinced he had what it takes to be a functional Big Ten QB. We broke him. Sorry.
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I believe this is a trend. I believe Nelson got worse the more he played as a Gopher. Mitch Leidner
was definitely better last year in games than he has played in games this year. He had fun playing and played with a swagger last year. There has been no evidence of either this year in his play. He is not without talent. ML looks good in practice.

Were Shortell's best performances among his first? Did Gray get better or actually regress as a quarterback?

Now Streveler has looked very good in his brief appearances. He plays with confidence. Against Eastern Illinois we actually ran our offense with him at quarterback. He looked great and so did the team. And that was the second team. And, Versus TCU he came in on 3rd and 7 and made the play. Our only touchdown he showed great patience and poise and made the proper throw. He clearly has better presence on the field right now than ML. Given the opportunity to play going forward I'm very anxious to see if he elevates or sinks.
 

#2Gopher said:
I can't believe were even having this discussion. Trolls? Its been tough with injuries, playing many young guys, many changes...it will come together.
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I hope you are right. I hope things come together and it is still possible to have a very good season. Hope the injury bug stops.

As for trolls, that really is a term of convenience used to describe all those unwelcome comments we produce. I have been called a notorious troll by dozens on this board. That doesn't take away from the legitimacy of the comments.

If I was Matt Limegrover, I would be very creative right now and work with the line to not only execute well, but to open up new blocking schemes to help open up the game. I would be sitting down with the specialty coaches to remediate concerns in the top facets of play. And, I believe he is working on that right now, no doubt about it.

It is my hope that the coaches take to heart that the expectation of the paying public is for a better than average team, good enough to compete for championships. After 4 years, the era of excuses begins to wear off and the era of meeting expectations begins.

If I were to put down in writing my expectations of Matt Limegrover it would be these goals and milestones.

1) Line that opens enough lanes to allow the running backs to average 4.8 yards per carry in the B!G.
2) Line that protects the quarterback for sufficient time for each type of pass play.
3) That the line be able to competently protect and project for punches, pulls, sweeps, flats, posts, etc.
4) That the backs are competent to pick up the block in the backfield to allow plays to develop fully.
5) That we get at least one lineman as all B!G and one second team.
6) That our rushing game be at least in the top 6 in the B!G in terms of yardage, yards per carry, penalties, sacks, and time of possession.
7) That we recruit at least two lineman for 2016 that are in the top 100 - 70 and the rest at least with enough potential to play in their 4th year with competency.
8) The players are happy to work with you.

Matt could stay as long as necessary as long as he accomplishes 6 of those goals.
 

60's Guy said:
I believe this is a trend. I believe Nelson got worse the more he played as a Gopher. Mitch Leidner
was definitely better last year in games than he has played in games this year. He had fun playing and played with a swagger last year. There has been no evidence of either this year in his play. He is not without talent. ML looks good in practice.

Were Shortell's best performances among his first? Did Gray get better or actually regress as a quarterback?

Now Streveler has looked very good in his brief appearances. He plays with confidence. Against Eastern Illinois we actually ran our offense with him at quarterback. He looked great and so did the team. And that was the second team. And, Versus TCU he came in on 3rd and 7 and made the play. Our only touchdown he showed great patience and poise and made the proper throw. He clearly has better presence on the field right now than ML. Given the opportunity to play going forward I'm very anxious to see if he elevates or sinks.
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And maybe the trend is that these are players with a limited amount of talent that teams get to know and prepare for them. Arm strength, mobility, decision making, reacting under pressure, etc. could be listed as weaknesses of Gopher quarterbacks for a long time, not just under this staff. Can coaching take care of some of this? Obviously, but you can do only so much. Teams will ratchet up the pressure or give you the long ball or complicate their looks accordingly and some kids won't handle it whatever the quality of coaching. Have no idea if your viewpoint is right or mine is. I do know that both are valid to consider. Plus, with the lack of top-notch wide receivers and problems with the offensive line I hesitate to say this staff can't develop QB"s, let alone causes them to regress.

Norv Turner looked like the QB Whisperer last week with the way Cassell played--um, yesterday, not so much. Circumstances changed, not Turner's coaching ability.
 

I agree 100% with your points

Mulligan said:
And maybe the trend is that these are players with a limited amount of talent that teams get to know and prepare for them. Arm strength, mobility, decision making, reacting under pressure, etc. could be listed as weaknesses of Gopher quarterbacks for a long time, not just under this staff. Can coaching take care of some of this? Obviously, but you can do only so much. Teams will ratchet up the pressure or give you the long ball or complicate their looks accordingly and some kids won't handle it whatever the quality of coaching. Have no idea if your viewpoint is right or mine is. I do know that both are valid to consider. Plus, with the lack of top-notch wide receivers and problems with the offensive line I hesitate to say this staff can't develop QB"s, let alone causes them to regress.

Norv Turner looked like the QB Whisperer last week with the way Cassell played--um, yesterday, not so much. Circumstances changed, not Turner's coaching ability.
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I agree completely with your points. I believe of the guys on the roster maybe the only one offered a scholarship to play quarterback is Perra at South Dakota. The others were recruited by other schools but to play other positions. Leidner said he was recruited by the Gophers to play tight end. So, there certainly is that. Eastern Illinois definitely had two better quarterbacks than any we have.
That's part of it.

But of the people we have, no matter who it is, I just feel a major part of coaching is mindset. Nelson had it, lost it. His body language his last couple games was like he wanted to cry...not how he began. Leidner had swagger, confidence last year. As "the man" this year he has not demonstrated any confidence on game day. If I'm the coach I know what my guy can do. I know what the other team is going to take away. It's my job to devise a scheme to put my guy in position to be successful. (1) I don't see that happening. (2)
Success is impossible without confidence. Our quarterbacks play scared. That's coaching.
I agree with all your points but still think these elements are missing.
 

60's Guy said:
I agree completely with your points. I believe of the guys on the roster maybe the only one offered a scholarship to play quarterback is Perra at South Dakota. The others were recruited by other schools but to play other positions. Leidner said he was recruited by the Gophers to play tight end. So, there certainly is that. Eastern Illinois definitely had two better quarterbacks than any we have.
That's part of it.

But of the people we have, no matter who it is, I just feel a major part of coaching is mindset. Nelson had it, lost it. His body language his last couple games was like he wanted to cry...not how he began. Leidner had swagger, confidence last year. As "the man" this year he has not demonstrated any confidence on game day. If I'm the coach I know what my guy can do. I know what the other team is going to take away. It's my job to devise a scheme to put my guy in position to be successful. (1) I don't see that happening. (2)
Success is impossible without confidence. Our quarterbacks play scared. That's coaching.
I agree with all your points but still think these elements are missing.
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Good post.
 

60's Guy said:
I agree completely with your points. I believe of the guys on the roster maybe the only one offered a scholarship to play quarterback is Perra at South Dakota. The others were recruited by other schools but to play other positions. Leidner said he was recruited by the Gophers to play tight end. So, there certainly is that. Eastern Illinois definitely had two better quarterbacks than any we have.
That's part of it.

But of the people we have, no matter who it is, I just feel a major part of coaching is mindset. Nelson had it, lost it. His body language his last couple games was like he wanted to cry...not how he began. Leidner had swagger, confidence last year. As "the man" this year he has not demonstrated any confidence on game day. If I'm the coach I know what my guy can do. I know what the other team is going to take away. It's my job to devise a scheme to put my guy in position to be successful. (1) I don't see that happening. (2)
Success is impossible without confidence. Our quarterbacks play scared. That's coaching.
I agree with all your points but still think these elements are missing.
Click to expand...

Great post. Our QBs may not be the most talented in the world, but they've played worse than they should heck we could grap any NIC starting QB and plug them in they'd play better IMO. I have no idea why.
 

Record against non-Big 5 schools in 2007-2011 = 9-7 Record against non-Big 5 schools since = 9-0.

I know this isn't much of a measuring stick, but it does show improvement.

If we want any future coaching candidate to feel comfortable considering us, we must give Jerry at least 5 years and even then, there must be pretty convincing evidence to change coaches.
 

60's Guy said:
I agree completely with your points. I believe of the guys on the roster maybe the only one offered a scholarship to play quarterback is Perra at South Dakota. The others were recruited by other schools but to play other positions. Leidner said he was recruited by the Gophers to play tight end. So, there certainly is that. Eastern Illinois definitely had two better quarterbacks than any we have.
That's part of it.

But of the people we have, no matter who it is, I just feel a major part of coaching is mindset. Nelson had it, lost it. His body language his last couple games was like he wanted to cry...not how he began. Leidner had swagger, confidence last year. As "the man" this year he has not demonstrated any confidence on game day. If I'm the coach I know what my guy can do. I know what the other team is going to take away. It's my job to devise a scheme to put my guy in position to be successful. (1) I don't see that happening. (2)
Success is impossible without confidence. Our quarterbacks play scared. That's coaching.
I agree with all your points but still think these elements are missing.
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No.
EIU is now 0-3, losses to us, SIU, and Illnois St.
QB's have passed for 3 TDs and 7 INTs.
 

60's Guy said:
I agree completely with your points. I believe of the guys on the roster maybe the only one offered a scholarship to play quarterback is Perra at South Dakota. The others were recruited by other schools but to play other positions. Leidner said he was recruited by the Gophers to play tight end. So, there certainly is that. Eastern Illinois definitely had two better quarterbacks than any we have.
That's part of it.

But of the people we have, no matter who it is, I just feel a major part of coaching is mindset. Nelson had it, lost it. His body language his last couple games was like he wanted to cry...not how he began. Leidner had swagger, confidence last year. As "the man" this year he has not demonstrated any confidence on game day. If I'm the coach I know what my guy can do. I know what the other team is going to take away. It's my job to devise a scheme to put my guy in position to be successful. (1) I don't see that happening. (2)
Success is impossible without confidence. Our quarterbacks play scared. That's coaching.
I agree with all your points but still think these elements are missing.
Click to expand...

a scared QB does not throw wobbly passes.
fear shows up as 'happy feet', sacks taken, false starts, etc.
if in fear, and running out of the pocket, a QB regresses to the playground in 5th grade and zips a tight spiral..
 

I was referring to the day they played us

Ole said:
No.
EIU is now 0-3, losses to us, SIU, and Illnois St.
QB's have passed for 3 TDs and 7 INTs.
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EIU quarterbacks passed for 310 yards and ran for 92 versus the Gophers.
We passed for 156 yards and rushed for 36 vs EIU.

Having said that I was going more by the eye test...not stats. You don't think
we have way more pieces to work with than EIU? Who impressed you on their team besides the QB's
and one wide receiver? Based on the one EIU game or the other time Manley played the Gophers and put Mitch on EIU and then put Manley on the Gophers and do you still reach the same conclusion?

Whitlow running our option read with our line, our tight ends and our backs is not more effective?
 

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