Jay Johnson

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Bob_Loblaw said:
I wish it were that simple.

9 wins LAST year is not good enough.
8 wins NEXT year is an unrealistic expectation.

Additionally, you have to keep in mind that PJ Fleck is dealing with implementing a new system. You shouldn't have high expectations for next year. However, here is where it gets tricky, the offense last year (with Johnson and Miller), should have hit the ground running. You should not have expected a learning curve.
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For me, 9 wins last year wasn't enough for Claeys to keep his job based on other factors (decisions he made during games, his [at the time] poor recruiting class, his lack of leadership during the scandal, fan apathy, etc.). However, while I was disappointed with the offense, had Claeys been retained I absolutely would not have been calling for JJ's head. Had Claeys been retained, I wanted to see how his offense progressed. It absolutely wasn't what I wanted to see last year (play calling, efficiency, etc.) but I did understand he had limited time and ability to fully implement his scheme. Some certainly expected it to click faster based on similarities to the previous offense, but I'm not sure that is fair.

Again for me, 8 wins next year isn't a realistic basement level based on a lot of factors other than a new coach. One of the big issues next year is simply the players lost through graduation/transfer/expulsion vs. backups. Last year I had a better feeling for who was going to come in and play and based on what I had seen felt like they should be able to contribute (example, I felt pretty confident Wolitarsky would be the top receiver and be a reliable target). The only QB's we have coming back we've seen for a combined <3 games so regardless how they did, we have no idea what they'll be like next year (and whether either will actually win the job). I have no idea who will play center. We have a small handful of DB's returning (obviously that situation improved but still was hurt). We don't have a single WR that I have seen that I feel like can be a reliable target (hands of stone). Schedule is similar depending on whether MI State rebounds and whether MI can stay top tier losing 11 starters on defense (thought I heard that, could be wrong).

Frankly, I would have felt the same whether it was Claeys or Fleck based on the above, with the exception that they would have likely lost Rhoda and may have kept Moore which would have helped (not sure on that, even though he said Claeys was his reason). I think 8 wins is possible, but I don't think it's a disaster or disgrace or whatever if they win 6 or 7.
 

MNgradinWI said:
Your last sentence sums up your lack of intelligence. Bowl committees and people who attend games care who and how you beat people. I was at the Northwestern game. If you were...you would notice how many people were excited about the glorious last second victory of Rutgers.
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Why do I (or does anyone) give a sh1t about what other people who attend games care who or how we beat people? I literally could not care less what other attendees at Gophers games think about the Gophers. And you're wrong about the bowl committees, btw. They are more or less bound by rule and win totals to pick among (at most) 2-3 teams in their slot. They are obligated to pick an 8-win Minnesota team over a 6-win Iowa team, for example, unless it's against the repeat selection rules put into place. They don't look at or care about strength of schedule or margin of victory. That matters for the playoff committee. I'll worry about those things when we're in that discussion.

MNgradinWI said:
I was at the Northwestern game. If you were...you would notice how many people were excited about the glorious last second victory of Rutgers.
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You're barking up the wrong tree. I attend every Gophers home game I possibly can unless I'm out of town or somebody died. I've attended probably 46 out of the 49 home games in TCF Bank Stadium. And again, why would I care how many people were excited about the victory over Rutgers? Why would I care? Why would anybody? What a weird thing to be concerned about. I care about winning games.
 

MNgradinWI said:
I was at the Northwestern game. If you were...you would notice how many people were excited about the glorious last second victory of Rutgers.
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It was cold, not a lot of people sure, but it was fun.
 

Lakeville Goldy said:
For me, 9 wins last year wasn't enough for Claeys to keep his job based on other factors (decisions he made during games, his [at the time] poor recruiting class, his lack of leadership during the scandal, fan apathy, etc.). However, while I was disappointed with the offense, had Claeys been retained I absolutely would not have been calling for JJ's head. Had Claeys been retained, I wanted to see how his offense progressed. It absolutely wasn't what I wanted to see last year (play calling, efficiency, etc.) but I did understand he had limited time and ability to fully implement his scheme. Some certainly expected it to click faster based on similarities to the previous offense, but I'm not sure that is fair.

Again for me, 8 wins next year isn't a realistic basement level based on a lot of factors other than a new coach. One of the big issues next year is simply the players lost through graduation/transfer/expulsion vs. backups. Last year I had a better feeling for who was going to come in and play and based on what I had seen felt like they should be able to contribute (example, I felt pretty confident Wolitarsky would be the top receiver and be a reliable target). The only QB's we have coming back we've seen for a combined <3 games so regardless how they did, we have no idea what they'll be like next year (and whether either will actually win the job). I have no idea who will play center. We have a small handful of DB's returning (obviously that situation improved but still was hurt). We don't have a single WR that I have seen that I feel like can be a reliable target (hands of stone). Schedule is similar depending on whether MI State rebounds and whether MI can stay top tier losing 11 starters on defense (thought I heard that, could be wrong).

Frankly, I would have felt the same whether it was Claeys or Fleck based on the above, with the exception that they would have likely lost Rhoda and may have kept Moore which would have helped (not sure on that, even though he said Claeys was his reason). I think 8 wins is possible, but I don't think it's a disaster or disgrace or whatever if they win 6 or 7.
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Do I have this correct? Claeys won 9 games, but wasn't flashy, i.e. didn't have cool catch phrases, so we needed to fire him. PJ Fleck could win only 6 games but has a bunch of cool catch phrases: "Row the Boat", "FAMILY", and "Elite", and says those 600x so he is the next coming of Lou Holtz and therefore we have to lock him down with a mega contract. Love it.
 

I loved that Jay was a local guy...hard worker etc. My only complaint was that is obvious that Smith/Brooks were the most talented weapons we had.....why didn't they get the ball more in space. Those middle screens or flat passes should have been a mainstay, but wasn't.

Good luck to Jay.
 


MNgradinWI said:
Your last sentence sums up your lack of intelligence. Bowl committees and people who attend games care who and how you beat people. I was at the Northwestern game. If you were...you would notice how many people were excited about the glorious last second victory of Rutgers.
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Attendance at games on cold November games against the likes of Northwestern are almost entirely based on season ticket sold, no matter how exciting the team. A disappointing attendance for that game was all but guaranteed before kickoff on September 1.
 

leftyslefty said:
I loved that Jay was a local guy...hard worker etc. My only complaint was that is obvious that Smith/Brooks were the most talented weapons we had.....why didn't they get the ball more in space. Those middle screens or flat passes should have been a mainstay, but wasn't.

Good luck to Jay.
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It doesn't explain everything but a few times I saw Smith out in space ... open. Someone didn't get him the ball.
 

Hates Monikers said:
Attendance at games on cold November games against the likes of Northwestern are almost entirely based on season ticket sold, no matter how exciting the team. A disappointing attendance for that game was all but guaranteed before kickoff on September 1.
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I would agree with this but it never should have been the lowest attended game in TCF history. It was not that cold.
 

Calm Down said:
Do I have this correct? Claeys won 9 games, but wasn't flashy, i.e. didn't have cool catch phrases, so we needed to fire him. PJ Fleck could win only 6 games but has a bunch of cool catch phrases: "Row the Boat", "FAMILY", and "Elite", and says those 600x so he is the next coming of Lou Holtz and therefore we have to lock him down with a mega contract. Love it.
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I'll say this. The Gophers had 9 wins this year, I am 33 years old, so by all accounts it was one of the best seasons in my lifetime. Not comparing him to Fleck at all or even saying it was on the coaches, there was absolutely zero buzz or excitement in the stadium all season long. The Iowa game was a total snoozefest and most of the other games were pretty boring. There were parts of many games where I found myself walking around the stadium and not watching. I don't know who is to blame, the coach? the QB? Lack of catch phrases?
 



MNgradinWI said:
I would agree with this but it never should have been the lowest attended game in TCF history. It was not that cold.
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The problem with the cold (plus unattractive opponent, at least to the casual fan), is that you will not get many, if any walk-up sales. You're only getting season ticket holders and nothing more. Now, that doesn't apply to when we're playing Wisconsin in November. But most cold November games will be like this. Northwestern this year. Illinois last year.

Let's check season ticket sales throughout TCF history. I don't know this for a fact, but I think last year was the lowest we've had in the stadium. That's why it was the lowest-attended game.
 

MNgradinWI said:
Your last sentence sums up your lack of intelligence. Bowl committees and people who attend games care who and how you beat people. I was at the Northwestern game. If you were...you would notice how many people were excited about the glorious last second victory of Rutgers.
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Do you really think close wins to bad teams is why our attendance stinks? If so, that's bizarre.
 


It seems like there would only ever be consensus if we won all the games.... or none.

Anywhere in between and it is the end times as far as agreeing on anything.
 




Bob_Loblaw said:
Do you really think close wins to bad teams is why our attendance stinks? If so, that's bizarre.
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Yes Bob, I don't think it is the only thing but it does. Gopher fans are fair weather for sure. Our media rips apart every single aspect of the games too. If we squeak by bad teams, they will get ripped to shreds in the paper despite winning. I am not speaking of the fans on here but the casual fan absolutely cares because the media is all they see and hear.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
What more can a coach do but win games?
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Bring more excitement/buzz to the program. Mnfootball fan hit on the head above. If the fans are not excited about the Iowa game, there is definitely a problem.
 


MNgradinWI said:
Yes Bob, I don't think it is the only thing but it does. Gopher fans are fair weather for sure. Our media rips apart every single aspect of the games too. If we squeak by bad teams, they will get ripped to shreds in the paper despite winning. I am not speaking of the fans on here but the casual fan absolutely cares because the media is all they see and hear.
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But that is really a rip on our market. I mean, a coach can only win games. All of this buzz and excitement surrounding Fleck will turn to pure mock and ridicule if we don't win. My guess, he'll probably have a shorter rope for such mock and ridicule (unfairly).

I completely understand that people aren't going to come out, but I don't think the casual fan is more or less likely to come out if we beat Rutgers by 14. If we lost to Rutgers, yeah, that's a different story.

The Maryland win didn't exactly create a Gopher frenzy.
The Northwestern win didn't ignite the casual fan.

This year, there will be some added excitement because PJ is new. However, the only thing that can sustain any sort of excitement in the football program is winning (and yes GopherWeather, I get it, more winning is better than less winning).
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
What more can a coach do but win games?
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A lot. Winning games is significant part of the job but not the only one. Selling the program and recruiting are also significant parts of the job. What a dumb question.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
A lot. Winning games is significant part of the job but not the only one. Selling the program and recruiting are also significant parts of the job. What a dumb question.
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You think recruiting matters if it doesn't translate to wins? LOL.

You think poor recruiting rankings matter if your team is winning all the time? LOL

Your answer shows what kind of idiot you really are. You think rankings matter. The only thing that matters is how much talent you have.

If PJ Fleck wins 10+ games a year for the next 10 seasons, his recruiting rankings won't matter.
If PJ Fleck wins 5 games a year with great recruiting rankings. . . it won't matter.

The only thing that matters is winning.

As far as selling the program? LOL. Ok. You must be new to this college football thing. If you're losing, selling the program goes horribly. It's not possible. It's essentially what Brew was mocked for doing.

On a side note, congratulations for your stupidity. Since it was a Jay Johnson thread, I was hoping you were going to get back into your great theory about how Leidner's development was his Claeys and Johnson's fault. That would have been fun.
 

The same folks who thought ML7 was the worst QB of all time complain that JJ ran the ball too much and was too conservative. IALTO.


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I think a lot of Gopher fans believe Claeys maxed out his success this year with lackluster performances each and every week of the season. The non-conference schedule was weak, the Rivalry games were 0-fer, and some of the B1G opponents were horrible this year, (Rutgers, Purdue, Illinois, and even Maryland). I've seen many years where .500 teams were tough, but that wasn't the case in the B1G this year except for Indiana and NW. Two years ago, the Gophers clobbered Iowa and beat Michigan badly, but Gopher fans haven't seen anything like that since. Before the season, Claeys was the one who said "this is our best team since we've been here". It pretty much sounded as if he expected it all to come to fruition this year. Well, if that's the best TC could do, it wasn't good enough to get people excited and the product was boring.
In a pro sports city, if the Gophers are boring, that type of 9 win season (one absent of any kick butt Offensive performances) will quickly be followed by 5-7 or 4-8 seasons.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
A lot. Winning games is significant part of the job but not the only one. Selling the program and recruiting are also significant parts of the job. What a dumb question.
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Selling the program is part of the HC job, but it will only help the first year he's in the program. If the team doesn't win, no amount of salesmanship after that is going to help.
Recruiting only matters if the staff can actually coach them to play well. Brady Hoke and Rich Rod at scUM would be perfect examples of coach who could recruit but not get the team to play well. There's also our former HC Tim Brewster who could recruit but couldn't coach.
In the end it is wins that will get people in the seats.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
A lot. Winning games is significant part of the job but not the only one. Selling the program and recruiting are also significant parts of the job. What a dumb question.
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If those don't lead to wins, they don't matter.
 

KillerGopherFan said:
I think a lot of Gopher fans believe Claeys maxed out his success this year with lackluster performances each and every week of the season. The non-conference schedule was weak, the Rivalry games were 0-fer, and some of the B1G opponents were horrible this year, (Rutgers, Purdue, Illinois, and even Maryland). I've seen many years where .500 teams were tough, but that wasn't the case in the B1G this year except for Indiana and NW. Two years ago, the Gophers clobbered Iowa and beat Michigan badly, but Gopher fans haven't seen anything like that since. Before the season, Claeys was the one who said "this is our best team since we've been here". It pretty much sounded as if he expected it all to come to fruition this year. Well, if that's the best TC could do, it wasn't good enough to get people excited and the product was boring.
In a pro sports city, if the Gophers are boring, that type of 9 win season (one absent of any kick butt Offensive performances) will quickly be followed by 5-7 or 4-8 seasons.
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To summarize. 9 wins is a bad season and then would have been followed by a season of 5 wins and 4 wins if TC were still around. And what does the oracle predict in the next three years for PJF?
 

If a coaches only job is winning why was Claeys fired? :confused:
 

Spoofin said:
The same folks who thought ML7 was the worst QB of all time complain that JJ ran the ball too much and was too conservative. IALTO.


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TC still has eligibility left ... why didn't he do it!?!?
 


This thread is a dumpster fire. Can someone tell me where Jay ended up??


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Johnnyboy18 said:
If a coaches only job is winning why was Claeys fired? :confused:
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When your winning at half time you should have a good chance in winning the have. That wasn't the case with claeys

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