And Danny Manning.
Jamal Mashburn Jr. has entered the transfer portal, sources told ESPN.
- Thread starter BleedGopher
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As a pure point guard, Isaiah Washington was better than Mashburn when he was here. He was a great ball handler and a willing passer. He willingly passed for assist to even to Bakary and Hurt.
GopherJake
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Idiotic take. You based your view on 8 games. Where he flashed lots of promise. Seriously, stop giving your opinions.
Per 100 possessions, freshman year at Minnesota
Player A: 35% fg, 27.6 3 pt fg %, 4 assists, 1.1 steals, 2.6 turnovers, 20.9 points Ortg 92.9 Drtg 109.3
Player B: 36.6% fg, 24.1 3pt fg%, 6.7 asssists, 1.6 steals, 4.3 turnovers, 24.6 points
Ortg 94.0 Drtg 109.7
Player A is Jamal Mashburn Jr ...Player B is Isaiah Washington
Stats very similar. If there is an edge it's to Washington.
I'd like to have Mashburn back, he's one of 5 guys I'd like back (Carr, Robbins, Johnson, Kalscheur), but it's not the end of the world if he moves on.
Player A: 35% fg, 27.6 3 pt fg %, 4 assists, 1.1 steals, 2.6 turnovers, 20.9 points Ortg 92.9 Drtg 109.3
Player B: 36.6% fg, 24.1 3pt fg%, 6.7 asssists, 1.6 steals, 4.3 turnovers, 24.6 points
Ortg 94.0 Drtg 109.7
Player A is Jamal Mashburn Jr ...Player B is Isaiah Washington
Stats very similar. If there is an edge it's to Washington.
I'd like to have Mashburn back, he's one of 5 guys I'd like back (Carr, Robbins, Johnson, Kalscheur), but it's not the end of the world if he moves on.
WorkingMyTailOff
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Loved watching him take over on offense for about 7 minutes in the last game vs OSU. Maybe just maybe the new coach can talk him into staying?
Seany
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Bummer. I enjoyed watching Jamal develop over the course of the season and seeing him really begin to blossom towards the end of it. He's a talented player, and beyond that a quality and high-character individual, which makes it very easy to root for a kid like that.
I'd hoped to see his game develop over the course of multiple seasons here, but I can fully understand why he might wish to move on given what's taken place. Wherever he ends up, I wish young Mash the best.
I'd hoped to see his game develop over the course of multiple seasons here, but I can fully understand why he might wish to move on given what's taken place. Wherever he ends up, I wish young Mash the best.
MplsGopher
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Seems like it's pretty certain that if you were committed to the program/school no matter what, there would be no reason to enter the portal at all?
But, you can't say much more for certain beyond that.
Otis
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And then again no reason not to enter the portal.
To my memory, the only player who has entered the portal and returned in recent years was Matz.
Good post. Washington was a bad shooter as a freshman (and as a sophomore) but Mashburn was poor too. Washington was a willing passer even to the weaker players on the team. Mashburn rarely looked for other players in scoring position. Washington was an excellent ball handler. Mashburn was OK but nothing special. Neither one of them were defensive aces but I thought Washington's defense did improve with time.
Washington definitely improved from the beginning to the end of his freshman year. Washington's player efficiency rating in-conference during his freshman year was 14.8 which was 3rd on the team (behind Murphy and Mason) if you throw out Lynch who played only 3 conference games. Mashburn's in-conference PER was 8.8 (behind every rotational player except Freeman). Washington's True Shooting Percentage in conference during his freshman year was .480, not good, but Mashburn's was .438.
You shut up. At least he backs up his opinions with quantitative evidence, unlike you.
GopherJake
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Kicking a freshman to the curb with upside far beyond Jelly Fam is idiotic. I’m not surprised that IW, a pass-first point guard who couldn’t hit the backboard on a three, looked to pass more than JMJ, who was on a team desperate for anyone who could score and also played primarily off-guard.
It’s not like we have an embarrassment of riches here. One of our primary issues over the past 25 years has been depth. Yeah, you’re right, we don’t need him.
Thanks for this analysis. I would also like to have Mashburn back but I'm not heartbroken if he is gone.
Tre Williams (really improved in the 2nd half), and Both Gach & Isaiah Ihnen to a lesser extent are also on my "want to stick around" list.
BarnBurner
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Mash one that MN needs to keep.
Kicking a freshman to the curb with upside far beyond Jelly Fam is idiotic. I’m not surprised that IW, a pass-first point guard who couldn’t hit the backboard on a three, looked to pass more than JMJ, who was on a team desperate for anyone who could score and also played primarily off-guard.
It’s not like we have an embarrassment of riches here. One of our primary issues over the past 25 years has been depth. Yeah, you’re right, we don’t need him.
First of all, no one kicked him to the curb. He entered the transfer portal. The recent history of that move is that when a player does that, he leaves.
Two of us have already given hard quantitative evidence that Mashburn was no better of a shooter in his freshman year than Washington - in fact, he was a little worse. Washington was also on a terrible team (at least after early January) his freshman year; that team lost 14 of its last 16 games.
The two had very similar stats playing for bad teams down the stretch of their freshman years. For the last 9 games of the season: PTS PER GAME - Washington 14; Mashburn 13.6; Assist Per Game - Washington 3; Mashburn 2; Turnovers per game - Washington 1.7; Mashburn 1.3; Rebounds Per Game - Washington 3; Mashburn 2.7. Yet, you talk about Washington like he was a total bust as a college player and Mashburn as having "upside far beyond Jelly Fam."
How do you know Mashburn has such tremendous upside?
Here's some parting advice:
1) Don't rely on your memory for conclusions about the past. Memories are faulty and biased. Check the data.
2) If you're going to argue with me, then up your game. Try a little more brains and a little less bluster and attitude. Otherwise you're just another dime a dozen message board yokel and not worth my time.
MplsGopher
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There would be a reason to not enter the portal: you were certain you wanted to stay.
There's not really an argument against that, it's just true.
But that's not the only reason you wouldn't enter the portal.
Hence, the argument if entering the portal means it's certain you don't want to stay. Which is open for debate, in my opinion.
GopherJake
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There are two movies relatable to this conversation: Moneyball and Trouble With the Curve.
Consider yourself Brad Pitt and consider me Clint Eastwood. I honestly don't care what the stats say (you can definitely argue against that point of view). I care what the "bat" sounds like when JMJ "hits" the ball. The JMJ "bat" makes a much sweeter sound than Jelly Fam.
Jelly Fam was God-awful on defense and had a very shaky shot, and he was abysmal from 3 - for two years here. He dropped down in class then, which was appropriate - and changed schools twice, before he was very productive. He was tentative here at MN and while he flashed some promise, he also was extremely frustrating to watch.
In my admittedly somewhat uninformed view, Jelly Fam appeared more interested in social media than work - and comments made repeatedly by Dick Pit indicated this. JMJ appears to be a very hard worker, willing to do anything, willing to do whatever the coach needed and definitely not lacking confidence. He appears silky smooth at times, has a very, very smooth, uncomplicated shot and can handle the ball. He works hard on defense and I have no doubt he will learn how to defend and how to distribute as the keys are handed over to the PG position - whether here or elsewhere. When JMJ has the ball, I feel confident he will do something positive, even if it doesn't result in a basket.
Agree to disagree. Let's check the record in a year. I predict JMJ has a breakout season next year. I'm NOT saying he will blow up into an NBA player - he might not. But he has the tools to be a very effective college player. Jelly Fam was a journeyman and I'm sure he's awesome at the Y.
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Otis
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If your in the portal you can weigh your options. If you aren't, you can't right?
People can recruit you in other words.
MplsGopher
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I don't understand what you're not getting about the very specific context of "certain you're not going to leave". In that specific case, you don't need to see who wants to recruit you.
Otis
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He is not certain.
He is a free agent. Which is the smart play, with no knowledge of who will be the coach.
MplsGopher
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Yes. Agree. I wasn't saying the he wasn't.
I said, if you were certain you weren't leaving, you would have no reason to enter the portal.
That is true. Undoubtedly, he will receive some offers and he can then weigh his options.
Well, he might, but comparing freshman years, he doesn't come out ahead of Washington. I did find his ability to drive and take the pull up midrange jumper impressive for his age. That's not a shot the metrics fanatics love but it's a good one to have in your arsenal when you need a bucket and he did it much better than most Gophers I've seen during Pitino's tenure.
This is true. He's the best guard we have returning and also the best scorer, assuming Carr moves on. Some of these people saying this isn't a loss are....
A freshman that can come in and play the way he did gives lots of optimism going forward.
What's funny is people can sit here and say losing Gabe for a few games this season was a big reason we lost down the stretch, but then turn around and say losing a guy like Mashburn won't hurt at all...
Freshman. That is all I will say. A strong coach to rein him in, coupled with any amount of inside game and an offense that stresses ball movement, you might think different.
Did you watch games the last few years if this is your take? I'm sorry, but IMO this kid is 2X the player that "Jelly sandwhich" was.
As I explained to the other poster, I based that conclusion about freshman years on hard quantitative evidence. If you prefer to base your conclusions on anecdotes and armchair glimpses, knock yourself out but don't expect me to lower myself to your level.
short ornery norwegian
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Re: Mashburn vs Jelly. In evaluating a player, you have to take into account the system the player was working in. Was it a system that maximized their talents?
With Jelly, I would say that he was not in a system that was designed to maximize his talents. For better or worse, Jelly was an open-court, up-tempo 'playground' type of player. And, if you're not going to run that type of system, then for bleep's sakes, don't recruit him. You don't ask a Clydesdale to run the Kentucky Derby, and you don't ask Affirmed to pull a wagon.
this gets back to one of my biggest issues with Pitino. he never established a clear system, so he was not able to identify and recruit players whose talents would be maximized in his system.
With Jelly, I would say that he was not in a system that was designed to maximize his talents. For better or worse, Jelly was an open-court, up-tempo 'playground' type of player. And, if you're not going to run that type of system, then for bleep's sakes, don't recruit him. You don't ask a Clydesdale to run the Kentucky Derby, and you don't ask Affirmed to pull a wagon.
this gets back to one of my biggest issues with Pitino. he never established a clear system, so he was not able to identify and recruit players whose talents would be maximized in his system.
WoodburyTim
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Well perhaps not definitive, but I would be surprised if Carr, Johnson, or Robbins are back here next year.