Jack Robinson commits to Wisconsin

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Bob_Loblaw said:
In the last 15 seasons, Wisconsin has won 68% of their Big 10 games. They have won the Big 10 four times, and finished in the top half of the conference every single season except for 2017-2018. They went to the Sweet 16 7 times and the Final Four twice.

No one is saying we should copy Wisconsin but to play it off like the numerous MN players didn't help to drive their success is a cope. They have gotten a ton of talent from MN and they have won at a rate that we could only dream of.

Have you watched the Gophers over the last 15 years? You don't think some of those guys, even as depth, would have helped us a ton? You're rolling your eyes at guys like Wahl? He went for 11 and 7 while leading the team in steals and blocks. Yep, we don't want guys like that.

It's one thing to say that you're not going to stress about the players leaving - it happens everywhere and I like the guys we have coming in. It's another thing to try to perpetuate some fantasy that WI hasn't pulled talent out of MN (besides Leuer) and we don't want to recruit those kinds of players. Hate to break it to ya, but we are recruiting them. We just aren't getting them yet.
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Stats don't lie. Do recruits want to go where a team is contention for a BIG10 championship every year and go to the big dance? or finish at the bottom of the BIG10? Outside of the Twin Cities bubble - this is an easy choice.
 

Gopherpot said:
Lakeville hasn’t been a primary reason Wisconsin’s success. Taylor (Benilde), Davidson (Maple Grove) have. Lueuer is average. But mostly, it’s guys like Kaminsky, Davis etc that have led to their success. This kid would be buried on the bench here most likely. I think the only kid from Lakeville that’s ever really panned out is that kid who went to Xavier (Forgot his name). So, not a loss at all to imo.
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Leuer was average? He averaged over 15 ppg as a JR and 18 ppg as a SR, then spent 8 seasons in the NBA. He was far better than average.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Leuer was average? He averaged over 15 ppg as a JR and 18 ppg as a SR, then spent 8 seasons in the NBA. He was far better than average.
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Yeah Leuer was dynamite. I get fandom, but acting like he wasn’t one of their top 15 players in the last 15-20 years and just average is just ridiculous
 

Bunyan said:
Stats don't lie. Do recruits want to go where a team is contention for a BIG10 championship every year and go to the big dance? or finish at the bottom of the BIG10? Outside of the Twin Cities bubble - this is an easy choice.
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I hear you but you also want recruits who feel that they can be a difference maker. Players know that 1 player can change the fortunes of a basketball program. You want players who have the confidence that says that they can make that kind of impact. You want leaders and not followers.
 











Forgive me for calling someone out directly, but in seeing their name in the "liked by" on some other posts, I have to ask ......

@lakevillebadger what say you???
 




Bob_Loblaw said:
Yeah, I agree. I don't sleep over missing out on Winter and Robinson. I really like the class that Ben has put together.

I think we are going to continue having difficulty recruiting in the suburbs (and potentially outstate). There is, at least, a perception that MPLS has gone downhill in the last few years and that perception is pretty strong in the suburbs.
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It’s very strong in the suburbs. I live in NW third ring, my son is a senior and you wouldn’t believe how many people do not want their kids at the U
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
In the last 15 seasons, Wisconsin has won 68% of their Big 10 games. They have won the Big 10 four times, and finished in the top half of the conference every single season except for 2017-2018. They went to the Sweet 16 7 times and the Final Four twice.

No one is saying we should copy Wisconsin but to play it off like the numerous MN players didn't help to drive their success is a cope. They have gotten a ton of talent from MN and they have won at a rate that we could only dream of.

Have you watched the Gophers over the last 15 years? You don't think some of those guys, even as depth, would have helped us a ton? You're rolling your eyes at guys like Wahl? He went for 11 and 7 while leading the team in steals and blocks. Yep, we don't want guys like that.

It's one thing to say that you're not going to stress about the players leaving - it happens everywhere and I like the guys we have coming in. It's another thing to try to perpetuate some fantasy that WI hasn't pulled talent out of MN (besides Leuer) and we don't want to recruit those kinds of players. Hate to break it to ya, but we are recruiting them. We just aren't getting them yet.
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Great points. Totally agree
 


MNJay said:
It's pathetic how Badger fans on here are harping about Taylor & Leuer from recruiting 15 years ago.
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I'm not ready to start accusing people of not being Gopher fans, but this feels like a fair point, and the level of ass kissing of Wisconsin in this thread is gross. Whoever said Leuer was average is wrong, but which Minnesota high school kids have been stars for Wisconsin since then? Brad Davison was freshman all Big Ten and then saw his shooting percentages drop every year and became one of the biggest villains in his era of college basketball before becoming second team all-Big Ten as a fifth year senior. Nate Reuvers was a top 75 recruit and averaged like 9 points and 4 rebounds for his career despite being 6'10", and was third team all-Big Ten once. Alex Illikainen didn't do anything. Joe Hedstrom didn't do anything. Riley Dearring didn't do anything. Ben Carlson hasn't done anything yet, and transferred out.

Johnny Davis, Ethan Happ, Nigel Hayes, Sam Dekker, Frank Kaminsky, and maybe even D'Mitrik Trice and Bronson Koenig are all better than anyone they've gotten from Minnesota in the same time period. "Wisconsin has gotten players from Minnesota and Wisconsin has been successful on the court, therefore Wisconsin's success is primarily because they get players from Minnesota" feels like faulty and simplistic logic. Wisconsin's 2014 Final Four team had no one from Minnesota and the 2015 team had Riley Dearring who scored less than 1 point per game, and some walk-on from Orono. If you're going to play the 20/20 hindsight game, maybe you wish Nate Reuvers and Nut Punch McGee played for Minnesota, and you take Tyler Wahl instead of Isaiah Ihnen because you know in advance that Ihnen (and Parker Fox while we're at it) is going to have major injury troubles, but if you're doing 20/20 hindsight, you take McKinley Wright over Brad Davison in the 2017 class anyway, and I think pursuing Jericho Sims over Reuvers is still defensible.

Nolan Winter seemed like the first in-state recruit in a long time that was a top priority for both Minnesota and Wisconsin. The last one was probably Jarvis Johnson in the 2015 class. I don't think Crowl, Wahl, Reuvers, or Davison were high priorities for the Minnesota coaching staff. Likewise, I doubt Wisconsin put much effort into recruiting Amir Coffey or Daniel Oturu.

Of course just after finishing a fall recruiting class that features two top 100 recruits from out of state, we're right back here wringing our hands over whether another 3 star going to Wisconsin is going to suffocate Minnesota's ability to get talent from anywhere, because getting good players from out of state just isn't feasible, or at least can't be done consistently. The caliber of player that Wisconsin gets from Minnesota, Minnesota can get from elsewhere. I'm not going to be up in arms about this until Wisconsin starts getting the Oturu's or the Coffey's from Minnesota, especially if this class of Betts, Christie, and Evans from out of state isn't just a one-time flash in the pan for Ben Johnson's recruiting.
 



I'm not lakevillebadger but I do live in Lakeville with four kids who have or are currently playing sports for Lakeville North. None of these players who are and will be going to WI are setting the high school world afire. I won't name names but one of these boys we absolutely do NOT want on the Gopher squad as he isn't a nice kid and his ego walks into the room minutes before the rest of him. A couple of the other boys really are great kids.

Reality is we're not missing out on anything special with having these kids play at WI. While most of these players are great kids, none of them are going to be 'record breakers.' Emotions are getting involved because we feel MN kids shouldn't be playing at WI, but reality is, it happens. WI high school players leave to play for schools outside of WI every year.

I also believe that what I will call "false reality" plays into it as well. WI basketball and football are good but I wouldn't put them on the level of being great. I think Badger sports seem better than they really are simply because they're mostly surrounded my schools with mediocre athletics. You get out of this part of the country, hell, go just a couple of states away and ask people on the street who when they think of college basketball/football, what teams come to mind, and I can almost guarantee you that Badgers will not be mentioned. Kansas, UNC, Duke, UCLA, etc., will be mentioned for basketball, while Georgia, Alabama, Clemson, etc., for football. WI simply will not be mentioned. False reality around this area (MN, WI) is that WI athletics is far greater than it really is.
 

Cayman said:
I'm not ready to start accusing people of not being Gopher fans, but this feels like a fair point, and the level of ass kissing of Wisconsin in this thread is gross. Whoever said Leuer was average is wrong, but which Minnesota high school kids have been stars for Wisconsin since then? Brad Davison was freshman all Big Ten and then saw his shooting percentages drop every year and became one of the biggest villains in his era of college basketball before becoming second team all-Big Ten as a fifth year senior. Nate Reuvers was a top 75 recruit and averaged like 9 points and 4 rebounds for his career despite being 6'10", and was third team all-Big Ten once. Alex Illikainen didn't do anything. Joe Hedstrom didn't do anything. Riley Dearring didn't do anything. Ben Carlson hasn't done anything yet, and transferred out.

Johnny Davis, Ethan Happ, Nigel Hayes, Sam Dekker, Frank Kaminsky, and maybe even D'Mitrik Trice and Bronson Koenig are all better than anyone they've gotten from Minnesota in the same time period. "Wisconsin has gotten players from Minnesota and Wisconsin has been successful on the court, therefore Wisconsin's success is primarily because they get players from Minnesota" feels like faulty and simplistic logic. Wisconsin's 2014 Final Four team had no one from Minnesota and the 2015 team had Riley Dearring who scored less than 1 point per game, and some walk-on from Orono. If you're going to play the 20/20 hindsight game, maybe you wish Nate Reuvers and Nut Punch McGee played for Minnesota, and you take Tyler Wahl instead of Isaiah Ihnen because you know in advance that Ihnen (and Parker Fox while we're at it) is going to have major injury troubles, but if you're doing 20/20 hindsight, you take McKinley Wright over Brad Davison in the 2017 class anyway, and I think pursuing Jericho Sims over Reuvers is still defensible.

Nolan Winter seemed like the first in-state recruit in a long time that was a top priority for both Minnesota and Wisconsin. The last one was probably Jarvis Johnson in the 2015 class. I don't think Crowl, Wahl, Reuvers, or Davison were high priorities for the Minnesota coaching staff. Likewise, I doubt Wisconsin put much effort into recruiting Amir Coffey or Daniel Oturu.

Of course just after finishing a fall recruiting class that features two top 100 recruits from out of state, we're right back here wringing our hands over whether another 3 star going to Wisconsin is going to suffocate Minnesota's ability to get talent from anywhere, because getting good players from out of state just isn't feasible, or at least can't be done consistently. The caliber of player that Wisconsin gets from Minnesota, Minnesota can get from elsewhere. I'm not going to be up in arms about this until Wisconsin starts getting the Oturu's or the Coffey's from Minnesota, especially if this class of Betts, Christie, and Evans from out of state isn't just a one-time flash in the pan for Ben Johnson's recruiting.
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This should be a pinned post. Their levels of ass-kissing & lack of logic do make me suspect they're not Gopher fans though.

Nice to see a few other good posts pop up too. I don't enjoy calling guys out...but it gets over-the-top in here about Wisconsin.
 

Mizzopher said:
I'm not lakevillebadger but I do live in Lakeville with four kids who have or are currently playing sports for Lakeville North. None of these players who are and will be going to WI are setting the high school world afire. I won't name names but one of these boys we absolutely do NOT want on the Gopher squad as he isn't a nice kid and his ego walks into the room minutes before the rest of him. A couple of the other boys really are great kids.

Reality is we're not missing out on anything special with having these kids play at WI. While most of these players are great kids, none of them are going to be 'record breakers.' Emotions are getting involved because we feel MN kids shouldn't be playing at WI, but reality is, it happens. WI high school players leave to play for schools outside of WI every year.

I also believe that what I will call "false reality" plays into it as well. WI basketball and football are good but I wouldn't put them on the level of being great. I think Badger sports seem better than they really are simply because they're mostly surrounded my schools with mediocre athletics. You get out of this part of the country, hell, go just a couple of states away and ask people on the street who when they think of college basketball/football, what teams come to mind, and I can almost guarantee you that Badgers will not be mentioned. Kansas, UNC, Duke, UCLA, etc., will be mentioned for basketball, while Georgia, Alabama, Clemson, etc., for football. WI simply will not be mentioned. False reality around this area (MN, WI) is that WI athletics is far greater than it really is.
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No one thinks Wisconsin is a blue blood or should be mentioned with those schools. But 'not caring' about who they recruit is just laughable when their program has been running laps around ours for the last 20 years.
 

Cayman said:
I'm not ready to start accusing people of not being Gopher fans, but this feels like a fair point, and the level of ass kissing of Wisconsin in this thread is gross. Whoever said Leuer was average is wrong, but which Minnesota high school kids have been stars for Wisconsin since then? Brad Davison was freshman all Big Ten and then saw his shooting percentages drop every year and became one of the biggest villains in his era of college basketball before becoming second team all-Big Ten as a fifth year senior. Nate Reuvers was a top 75 recruit and averaged like 9 points and 4 rebounds for his career despite being 6'10", and was third team all-Big Ten once. Alex Illikainen didn't do anything. Joe Hedstrom didn't do anything. Riley Dearring didn't do anything. Ben Carlson hasn't done anything yet, and transferred out.

Johnny Davis, Ethan Happ, Nigel Hayes, Sam Dekker, Frank Kaminsky, and maybe even D'Mitrik Trice and Bronson Koenig are all better than anyone they've gotten from Minnesota in the same time period. "Wisconsin has gotten players from Minnesota and Wisconsin has been successful on the court, therefore Wisconsin's success is primarily because they get players from Minnesota" feels like faulty and simplistic logic. Wisconsin's 2014 Final Four team had no one from Minnesota and the 2015 team had Riley Dearring who scored less than 1 point per game, and some walk-on from Orono. If you're going to play the 20/20 hindsight game, maybe you wish Nate Reuvers and Nut Punch McGee played for Minnesota, and you take Tyler Wahl instead of Isaiah Ihnen because you know in advance that Ihnen (and Parker Fox while we're at it) is going to have major injury troubles, but if you're doing 20/20 hindsight, you take McKinley Wright over Brad Davison in the 2017 class anyway, and I think pursuing Jericho Sims over Reuvers is still defensible.

Nolan Winter seemed like the first in-state recruit in a long time that was a top priority for both Minnesota and Wisconsin. The last one was probably Jarvis Johnson in the 2015 class. I don't think Crowl, Wahl, Reuvers, or Davison were high priorities for the Minnesota coaching staff. Likewise, I doubt Wisconsin put much effort into recruiting Amir Coffey or Daniel Oturu.

Of course just after finishing a fall recruiting class that features two top 100 recruits from out of state, we're right back here wringing our hands over whether another 3 star going to Wisconsin is going to suffocate Minnesota's ability to get talent from anywhere, because getting good players from out of state just isn't feasible, or at least can't be done consistently. The caliber of player that Wisconsin gets from Minnesota, Minnesota can get from elsewhere. I'm not going to be up in arms about this until Wisconsin starts getting the Oturu's or the Coffey's from Minnesota, especially if this class of Betts, Christie, and Evans from out of state isn't just a one-time flash in the pan for Ben Johnson's recruiting.
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F Davidson, I'm ecstatic he ended up a Badger.

With Reuvers, it's not hindsight, we recruited Nate Reuvers and it's absolutely insane for a Gopher fan to dismiss him because he was only ever third team All Big 10. Yes, putting Taylor and Leuer aside (which I don't know why we do that), you have found 6 examples of guys who are better than them. As much as I hate Wisconsin, it's very odd to point to good players at a much better program than ours and act like they wouldn't have helped us.

Generally, I agree with you about preferring Sims to Reuvers. But why do you? Using your logic, Sims was never All Big XII and he only averaged 6.6 points and 5.4 rebounds during his career. Why on earth would you want Sims but not Reuvers.

As far as choosing Wahl over Ihnen, again, we recruited him. It's not revisionist history. So we always wanted him. He had a similar FR season to Ihnen and a way better SO season. That was before there were any injuries. I hope Ihnen is great for us, but he was terrible as a sophomore. Wahl was a pretty important part of a much better team.

People really aren't wringing their hands over losing Robinson. This is a thread about a local person we were recruiting who just announced he is going to WI. Isn't this precisely the place for the discussion about losing recruits to WI? Most of the disagreements in this thread have nothing to do with Robinson, it's that there is a camp of people who want to pretend that we haven't lost talent to WI and people are rightfully correcting them.

It's entirely possible (and the only logical conclusion) to think that we have a great recruiting class coming in but that, in the past, we have lost a lot of talent to WI.

I don't give a sh!t about losing Robinson. I would have liked to have gotten Winter, but I'd prefer Betts and they are similar. I care more about losing Tre Holloman or Eli King than either of them. I'm ecstatic about Evans, Christie, Payne, and I think Carrington will be better than most people do. All of that said, when Gopher fans pretend like the guys we lost to the Badgers didn't hurt our program in the past, it's insane. It's an absolute cope.
 

MNJay said:
This should be a pinned post. Their levels of ass-kissing & lack of logic do make me suspect they're not Gopher fans though.

Nice to see a few other good posts pop up too. I don't enjoy calling guys out...but it gets over-the-top in here about Wisconsin.
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You're terrible at it too.
 


It's only an objective fact that Wisconsin has finished higher in the standings than Minnesota every year for the last 20+ years. They are our biggest rival so of course this will come up. Calling someone a closet Badger fan covertly trolling GH for pointing this out is beyond absurd.
 



NO, IT'S NOT HURTFUL to lose guys like Reuvers, Carlson, Crowl, Wahl, Winter, Robison, Illikainen, etc.

We've had much better players than that. Much better.

The problem is...we haven't had quite enough guys like Evans, Coffey, Oturu, Carr, Willis, Battle, Garcia, Murphy, Lynch, Mason...

...or going back to the Taylor/Leuer days...Royce White, Mbakwe, Hoff, Westbrook, D. Johnson, etc...

...on the team at the same time. We've always been a player short. Due to OUR OWN issues. It has NOTHING to do with Wisconsin.
 

MNJay said:
NO, IT'S NOT HURTFUL to lose guys like Reuvers, Carlson, Crowl, Wahl, Winter, Robison, Illikainen, etc.

We've had much better players than that. Much better.

The problem is...we haven't had quite enough guys like Evans, Coffey, Oturu, Carr, Willis, Battle, Garcia, Murphy, Lynch, Mason...

...or going back to the Taylor/Leuer days...Royce White, Mbakwe, Hoff, Westbrook, D. Johnson, etc...

...on the team at the same time. We've always been a player short. Due to OUR OWN issues. It has NOTHING to do with Wisconsin.
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It's simple logic. We didn't need those decent players, we had decent players. We just needed more of them.

We had our own issues. Mainly we didn't have enough good/decent players so therefore it didn't hurt us to lose good/decent players to Wisconsin. It makes a ton of sense right?

It doesn't matter that 2 of those players listed are going to be starters on the reigning Big 10 champs, they wouldn't have helped us because Daniel Oturu is better than them. So like, clearly they wouldn't have helped us win more games.
 

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