Jace Frederick: Mediocrity no longer enough for Gophers men’s basketball

[BleedGopher]

per Jace:

Depth has been the Achilles’ heel for so many recent Gophers teams, and this squad is no exception. Marcus Carr leads the Big Ten in minutes per game (37.1) by a wide margin, and Daniel Oturu (34.3) and Gabe Kalscheur (33.6) are in the top six. Perhaps fatigue has played into this team’s inability to close out games.

Imagine what a few extra quality players would do for this team. Pitino will point to Amir Coffey and Eric Curry as those guys. But the reality is players leave early for the NBA, and injuries happen. Heading into a season hoping for everything to fall your way and crossing your fingers that your entire roster stays intact is not an effective game plan.
The trick is to build a program with enough quality depth to sustain such common occurrences. You do so through tireless, smart recruiting and effective player development.

That’s what great programs do, the ones that don’t count sneaking into the NCAA Tournament as a success. They compete for championships and threaten to play into late March each year.

That’s what the Gophers should aspire to be, because it’s entirely possible. The resources surrounding this team have improved in recent years. So, too, should the expectations.

Mediocrity should no longer be this program’s identity.

https://www.postbulletin.com/sports/minnesota/jace-frederick-mediocrity-no-longer-enough-for-gophers-men-s/article_2a9e8a6a-5b55-11ea-b4a5-9f232fc1842c.html

Go Gophers!!

 

[USAF]

We have multiple "fans" on this very board arguing vehemently FOR mediocrity. Blistering with invective anyone who argues for more.

I think this program gets exactly what it's fan base demands.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

He isn’t able to recruit the state to the level he should

 

[BarnBall]

He isn’t able to recruit the state to the level he should

Oturu decided to stay home. He’s a darn good player. If the rest of the MN players would follow we might have something better to talk about. Question, if Matt Hurt would of stayed home would he be a better player than he is currently?

 

[#2Gopher]

Mediocrity should never be this program’s identity.

 

[bonin21]

Mediocrity is the first word I think of when I think of Gopher basketball since I was a kid (and they went to the FF by cheating)

 

[BarnBurner]

Mediocrity is the first word I think of when I think of Gopher basketball since I was a kid (and they went to the FF by cheating)

Make sure you use "by cheating" when referencing many college BB programs that win.

 

[golfing18now]

We have multiple "fans" on this very board arguing vehemently FOR mediocrity. Blistering with invective anyone who argues for more.

I think this program gets exactly what it's fan base demands.

What does this post even mean? Who is "arguing for mediocrity"?

 

[builtbadgers]

What does this post even mean? Who is "arguing for mediocrity"?

People that say that changing coaches could make the program worse ! There is no downside if you have strung together 4,5,6 years in a row of top of the conference type finishes. We have not done that in 80 plus years. Just look at the year by year results since all of you were born. Mediocre. 47-81 is worse than mediocre.

 

[salzie]

People that say that changing coaches could make the program worse ! There is no downside if you have strung together 4,5,6 years in a row of top of the conference type finishes. We have not done that in 80 plus years. Just look at the year by year results since all of you were born. Mediocre. 47-81 is worse than mediocre.

Restarting every few years isn't helping either. I was patient with pitino, he's likeable, but time move on.

I believe Coyle is a respected AD and will have better results in coaching search than Teague

 

[Roland Brooks]

Article was mediocre. Tells you nothing

 

[jblass]

I read the article and was not too impressed. It did not seem like he put too much effort or research into it.

 

[USAF]

What does this post even mean? Who is "arguing for mediocrity"?

seriously?

One third of the people in a recent poll, on this board, think Pitino should keep his job.

30 some odd games under .500 in the B1G. 1 tournament win.

And they cant even dream of better.

Christ, Pitino will have to improve by leaps and bounds just to GET to "mediocre."

 

[Chucklehead]

Can't believe people actually think Pitino deserves to keep his job. Its his 7th year and the team looks like a "rebuilding" team. I don't see how next year's team could be any better.

 

[bigyetti18]

I agree not sure that I can identify things that Rich does well.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

We have multiple "fans" on this very board arguing vehemently FOR mediocrity. Blistering with invective anyone who argues for more.

I think this program gets exactly what it's fan base demands.

The fans on this board aren't even arguing for mediocrity. They are arguing for bad with small glimpses of mediocre.

There is nothing mediocre about winning .370 of your conference games. That is bad not mediocre.

 

[Gopherfan1000]

Pitino is like a Ford Focus. We should aim for a BMW or Mercedes like we got with Fleck

 

[jovs]

Oturu decided to stay home. He’s a darn good player. If the rest of the MN players would follow we might have something better to talk about. Question, if Matt Hurt would of stayed home would he be a better player than he is currently?

He would be getting more playing time and more of an offensive focus that is for sure, if basketball is his main goal he needs to transfer, he will be recruited over at Duke

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Pitino is like a Ford Focus. We should aim for a BMW or Mercedes like we got with Fleck

I'd take a Camry at this point.

 

[Otis]

Question, if Matt Hurt would of stayed home would he be a better player than he is currently?

Hurt would have started at PF from Day 1. He also would have been given more than a foot of rope to hang himself with and would have been allowed to play through mistakes early in the schedule and OMG would he be better than Demir. Most likely he would have given us either a second or third scoring option which we are missing to go with Dan and Carr.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda at this point, but I also feel he would have been better set up to go one and done. (aside from the fact that the NCAA allows Duke to have baskets larger than other schools! )

 

[golfing18now]

seriously?

One third of the people in a recent poll, on this board, think Pitino should keep his job.

30 some odd games under .500 in the B1G. 1 tournament win.

And they cant even dream of better.

Christ, Pitino will have to improve by leaps and bounds just to GET to "mediocre."

When I have come on here to defend Pitino in the past, it wasn't because I wanted to protect a 30 game under 500 big ten record and assumed that would be the record moving forward. My anti-change bias wasn't for fear of giving up 30 games under 500 only to select the new coach and end up 40 games under for a similar time period. It was under the assumption that we were trending in the right direction. You have determined his next seven years would look like his first seven. Others have determined his next seven would look different. Maybe that is hoping against hope. I'm not sure where I stand today. But it has never been about "arguing for mediocrity" as you indicated in your previous post.

 

[forever a gopher]

When I have come on here to defend Pitino in the past, it wasn't because I wanted to protect a 30 game under 500 big ten record and assumed that would be the record moving forward. My anti-change bias wasn't for fear of giving up 30 games under 500 only to select the new coach and end up 40 games under for a similar time period. It was under the assumption that we were trending in the right direction. You have determined his next seven years would look like his first seven. Others have determined his next seven would look different. Maybe that is hoping against hope. I'm not sure where I stand today. But it has never been about "arguing for mediocrity" as you indicated in your previous post.

There are currently two teams below the Gophers in the conference standings. How on earth can you assert they are trending in the right direction? If you take any metric you’d like (overall record, conference record, home record, attendance, local recruiting, overall recruiting, shooting %, defensive statistics, bench depth, etc.), I doubt there is a single one where you can say things are moving in an upward trajectory. At best, they are on par with Pitino's average over his 7 years. Two of the last three seasons, they have finished/will finish in the bottom 4 of the conference. I'm flabbergasted how that can be taken as upward trajectory.

Even if you leave out his first three years, with the assumption that he was still young and learning, and it usually takes coaches a while to settle in, his conference win % over the past 4 years is .418. His conference win % over the past three years is .357. His conference win % over the past two years is .421. And his conference win % just this year is .388. That's called treading water. Yes, treading water is less scary than diving in the deep end, but treading water isn't going to get you anywhere, either.

 

[golfing18now]

There are currently two teams below the Gophers in the conference standings. How on earth can you assert they are trending in the right direction? If you take any metric you’d like (overall record, conference record, home record, attendance, local recruiting, overall recruiting, shooting %, defensive statistics, bench depth, etc.), I doubt there is a single one where you can say things are moving in an upward trajectory. At best, they are on par with Pitino's average over his 7 years. Two of the last three seasons, they have finished/will finish in the bottom 4 of the conference. I'm flabbergasted how that can be taken as upward trajectory.

Even if you leave out his first three years, with the assumption that he was still young and learning, and it usually takes coaches a while to settle in, his conference win % over the past 4 years is .418. His conference win % over the past three years is .357. His conference win % over the past two years is .421. And his conference win % just this year is .388. That's called treading water. Yes, treading water is less scary than diving in the deep end, but treading water isn't going to get you anywhere, either.

I think you need to read my post again. I'm not sure how many times I can qualify my statements. Phrases such as "when I came on here to defined Pitino in the past", "maybe it is hoping against hope", and "I'm not sure where I stand today" were not ringing endorsements of Pitino and a demand for not making a change.

I believe a coaching decision should be based on the state of the program TODAY. I don't care so much that he went 2-16 in year three. If the decision is made to move on, I'm ok with it. Most of the posters on this board have come to that conclusion. Once the snowball starts going the wrong way, it is tough to stop.

My original response to USAF was a reaction to his contention that any of us that have defended Pitino are "arguing for mediocrity". That isn't anybody's goal.

 

[builtbadgers]

I think you need to read my post again. I'm not sure how many times I can qualify my statements. Phrases such as "when I came on here to defined Pitino in the past", "maybe it is hoping against hope", and "I'm not sure where I stand today" were not ringing endorsements of Pitino and a demand for not making a change.

I believe a coaching decision should be based on the state of the program TODAY. I don't care so much that he went 2-16 in year three. If the decision is made to move on, I'm ok with it. Most of the posters on this board have come to that conclusion. Once the snowball starts going the wrong way, it is tough to stop.

My original response to USAF was a reaction to his contention that any of us that have defended Pitino are "arguing for mediocrity". That isn't anybody's goal.

I would not care about 2-16 in year one or two but in year 3 you have upperclass guys of your own providing you never compromise character and instilled a identity.

 

[bga1]

I would not care about 2-16 in year one or two but in year 3 you have upperclass guys of your own providing you never compromise character and instilled a identity.

Not likely. In year three you have Frosh and sophs of your own choosing. You don't get much in year one spring recruiting unless you are going for transfers.

That said, Pitino's first full class really put him behind the eight ball, no doubt about that. In year three he brought in some players but the risk he took on Dorsey shot him in the foot. From there, I think he has straightened out his recruiting in terms of character guys but a lot of damage was done there.

This is why I often say that you have to look at what you have in a coach right now, because we hired a long term play, a 30 year old. I think he is getting better, has a better staff, has coached better and has learned some lessons.

 

[builtbadgers]

Not likely. In year three you have Frosh and sophs of your own choosing. You don't get much in year one spring recruiting unless you are going for transfers.

That said, Pitino's first full class really put him behind the eight ball, no doubt about that. In year three he brought in some players but the risk he took on Dorsey shot him in the foot. From there, I think he has straightened out his recruiting in terms of character guys but a lot of damage was done there.

This is why I often say that you have to look at what you have in a coach right now, because we hired a long term play, a 30 year old. I think he is getting better, has a better staff, has coached better and has learned some lessons.

Just opinion but i am looking at him right now and have seen others that age that simply blow him away.

 

[builtbadgers]

Not likely. In year three you have Frosh and sophs of your own choosing. You don't get much in year one spring recruiting unless you are going for transfers.

That said, Pitino's first full class really put him behind the eight ball, no doubt about that. In year three he brought in some players but the risk he took on Dorsey shot him in the foot. From there, I think he has straightened out his recruiting in terms of character guys but a lot of damage was done there.

This is why I often say that you have to look at what you have in a coach right now, because we hired a long term play, a 30 year old. I think he is getting better, has a better staff, has coached better and has learned some lessons.

We were not looking at a long term play when we hired him because a moron named Teague hired his 7th choice. Go win the conference tourney and save your job.