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dpodoll68 said:
When will the "signing in-state recruits" meme come to an end? It's been posted and proven time and again that nobody, not even the best basketball schools in the country, keeps all of their in-state players home, and we're just supposed to ignore that and pretend that Minnesota will be the one school to do it? Why do posters keep doing this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.
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Maybe you should apply to be the next head coach seems like you have all the answers. It seems like it doesn’t work regardless what recruits we get here we can’t win anyway.
 

manderson1984 said:
Part of this is because we are spoiled and have not had competition of another D1 school in the state. It leads us to believe all kids should stay I think. Not fair to the program or the kids from the state. In state kids also look at others that have stayed and see the treatment they get (Coffey, Liedner, Rodney Williams, Royce White, list can be longer) from media and fans. Easy to not want to stay and avoid unwanted extra pressure.
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And when you list players like you did people should understand how many far superior players come from other states. There are single metro areas all over the country that dwarf the talent Minnesota puts out. Finding a great coach is the critical piece.
 

BarnBall said:
Maybe you should apply to be the next head coach seems like you have all the answers. It seems like it doesn’t work regardless what recruits we get here we can’t win anyway.
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To be fair he isn't giving answers, he's diagnosing flaws or issues. Would like to hear his opinions on the answers as he does a good job of analyzing problems with relevant data most times. I asked on the last thread of guys he'd want to replace the current coach and he was asked on this one to list the ones who weren't reasonable candidates and he doesn't answer those. An Asst. role/DoBO on staff may be a more suitable position. :)
 

Minnesconsin fan said:
my 2 cents.
1. nothing changed-- same offense that wasn't working, same defense. no adjustments. our on ball defender gets around the screen late, our big has to help, their big pops out for a 3. It happended to IW once and he never saw the floor again, it happened to Dupree 12 times and it must have been ok. Pre-game Jeter talked about having to change up the defenses- run some full court pressure or a half-court trap. Good thing the NET forced Pitino to want to lose by less than 10 or even the last 3 minutes he wouldn't have gone to any pressure defense.
2. Team chemistry is the hardest thing to coach. You can't force 18-22 year old kids to like each other, especially when they are competing for playing time. IW was subbing in for Coffey in the first half, IW sticks his hand out for a little hand slap on the way past and Coffey ignored it completely. To paraphrase- "Pouting and shooting poorly is no way to go through life, son". The 9 NBA scouts that Amir thought were there to see him, saw him alright. In reality, Jordan Poole and Brazdeikis have a better NBA skill set. If you aren't one of the top 50 NBA players, you had better have a specialty so you can fill a specific role on a specific team.
3. Be careful what you wish for. Wanting to get rid of Pitino may be change just for change's sake. We have lived through his mistakes that young coaches make on recruiting. Namely him thinking he could bring in 4 & 5 star kids and then having to fill a roster with Bakary and Gaston(no offense, nice guys, not gonna win alot of Big Ten games with them playing major roles though) and some questionable character guys. Roster management takes a couple of cycles to figure out-- we have made it to that point, let's let it play out. I am sick of waiting til spring to try add key pieces though. But realistically, overpaying the next up and coming coaching star may get us in the same boat 5 years from now.
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Yep. This is pretty much exactly where I'm at, man. I'm right there in the 'let it play out' boat and just not ready to close the book on Pitino quite yet. This spinning our wheels cycling through coach after coach after coach has gotten us exactly nowhere, so I wouldn't mind trying something different, staying the course in hoping that Pitino's trajectory along the growth curve of a college coach is heading up. That said, I can well understand the viewpoints of those whom are simply sick of it and have had enough of this experiment, because I cannot argue but that this has been incredibly frustrating, and efforts like last night's are just unacceptable.

And that sucks about Coffey ignoring IW like that. Perhaps that was inadvertent, but honestly Coffey about drives me fricken crazy. For all the talent that guy has, he just disappears WAY too often, I mean it's like he's not even there. And he's a selfish player too, which drives me equally nuts. That 2 on 1 fast break the other night where he had Oturu running right there with him on the wing, WIDE OPEN, instead of passing it off and getting the assured two points, Coffey decides to drive it in himself for the contested dunk, and in his attempt to 'posterize' the defender, Coffey completely whiffs on the dunk. I'm sitting there head in hands, it's like "My God, kid. What are you not seeing out there???" I think about Murph and his constant effort and how even when he does screw up (really need to work on limiting the turnovers, dude), he is ALWAYS out there playing hard, and then I contrast Coffey to that, and it's just like "Damn...." What a shame.
 

builtbadgers said:
And when you list players like you did people should understand how many far superior players come from other states. There are single metro areas all over the country that dwarf the talent Minnesota puts out. Finding a great coach is the critical piece.
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Correct analysis here. My issue is while we've fixed some other issues, when we get a great coach, we won't keep them if we don't adjust our other major flaws that make this a touch job. But yes, start with step one and finding a great coach is the best and quickest path.
 


manderson1984 said:
To be fair he isn't giving answers, he's diagnosing flaws or issues. Would like to hear his opinions on the answers as he does a good job of analyzing problems with relevant data most times. I asked on the last thread of guys he'd want to replace the current coach and he was asked on this one to list the ones who weren't reasonable candidates and he doesn't answer those. An Asst. role/DoBO on staff may be a more suitable position. :)
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I would agree, I would like to hear his opinions on the next head coach. I’m is frustrated as the next person year in and year out we seem to never peak or crest to get to the next level. The only way we probably could win is if one of the blue blood coaches came to Minnesota and that will never happen
 

builtbadgers said:
So your not sure we could hire a better coach ? It is not just about getting to the tournament, it is about challenging for the top of the conference. Getting to the tourney is a by product.
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Sorry but getting to the top of conference has become virtually meaningless. Getting to the tourney and making a run is what is remembered.

Off the top of my head can’t even tell you where Michigan finished in the conference last year but I know they lost the title game.

Just the same as your beloved Bennett and UVA. No one remembers where hey finished in conference last year. However, they do know only #1 seed to lose to a #16 seed.







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scools12 said:
Sorry but getting to the top of conference has become virtually meaningless. Getting to the tourney and making a run is what is remembered.

Off the top of my head can’t even tell you where Michigan finished in the conference last year but I know they lost the title game.

Just the same as your beloved Bennett and UVA. No one remembers where hey finished in conference last year. However, they do know only #1 seed to lose to a #16 seed.







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Alumni gifts hit record highs in the years he won the conference, recruiting jumped this year as kids and parents were impressed by the winning and by how he handled himself after such a tough loss. ESPN calls the UVA program elite, seats are sold out, road trips sold out, 3 time national coach of the year. If we won a single Big 10 title under Pitino people would remember it forever. Sweet 16 will not get Alumni like me to write huge checks like the constant buzz of season long excellence. Would i trade a conference title for a final 4. of course. But at the end of last year UVA was the only ACC team that won a title of any kind. In that region of the country,in such close proximity to actual powerhouse programs it matters. Take your shots all you want but what he has done at UVA has paid huge dividends. If it is worthless you have not seen what it means to the fans of the winning ACC teams, not to mention the pictures and trophies and banners held by the players of the schools that win them, huge celebrations ! Best part is the joy of those players and coaches as they are the actual competitors and the ones who actually do the work, the actual fight for competition. Even for him personally it brings great incentive pay. You do realize to lose the 16-1 game you have to win more than we ever have to become a one seed. You said no one remembers, Jay Bilas has brought it up countless times this year. He has only one thing left to do and that is coming, perhaps not this year but he is just putting his best teams out there now and what is coming next is better. You mock it with a one game example but it is the success i would gift a ton of money here for. Do not think people do not care, my god, we have NIT banners, we hang just getting to the NCAA banners so if we had the year UVA did at 31-3, the final AP number one and their double ACC title and tourney berth we would have hung 4 banners in one year !
 

builtbadgers said:
Alumni gifts hit record highs in the years he won the conference, recruiting jumped this year as kids and parents were impressed by the winning and by how he handled himself after such a tough loss. ESPN calls the UVA program elite, seats are sold out, road trips sold out, 3 time national coach of the year. If we won a single Big 10 title under Pitino people would remember it forever. Sweet 16 will not get Alumni like me to write huge checks like the constant buzz of season long excellence. Would i trade a conference title for a final 4. of course. But at the end of last year UVA was the only ACC team that won a title of any kind. In that region of the country,in such close proximity to actual powerhouse programs it matters. Take your shots all you want but what he has done at UVA has paid huge dividends. If it is worthless you have not seen what it means to the fans of the winning ACC teams, not to mention the pictures and trophies and banners held by the players of the schools that win them, huge celebrations ! Best part is the joy of those players and coaches as they are the actual competitors and the ones who actually do the work, the actual fight for competition. Even for him personally it brings great incentive pay. You do realize to lose the 16-1 game you have to win more than we ever have to become a one seed. You said no one remembers, Jay Bilas has brought it up countless times this year. He has only one thing left to do and that is coming, perhaps not this year but he is just putting his best teams out there now and what is coming next is better. You mock it with a one game example but it is the success i would gift a ton of money here for. Do not think people do not care, my god, we have NIT banners, we hang just getting to the NCAA banners so if we had the year UVA did at 31-3, the final AP number one and their double ACC title and tourney berth we would have hung 4 banners in one year !
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He's right you know. The embracing of mediocrity in the athletic department has strangled the desire to give to the university.

The U of MN has to realize that planting academic success stories on local TV news only goes so far. Athletics reaches out nationally on a faster pace than stories about the U that are sent to the TV station further down University Avenue.

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Ewert86PC said:
He's right you know. The embracing of mediocrity in the athletic department has strangled the desire to give to the university.

The U of MN has to realize that planting academic success stories on local TV news only goes so far. Athletics reaches out nationally on a faster pace than stories about the U that are sent to the TV station further down University Avenue.

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Been giving to the U since 1968 and will continue to do so. We support 4 programs annually and as a family and a business we base the amount of money on the amount of success. We support the U, UW, UVA and UCLA. The crazy part is my tickets at Williams are the most expensive of the 4 schools and for the worst product by a mile. Not supply- demand either.
 

builtbadgers said:
Been giving to the U since 1968 and will continue to do so. We support 4 programs annually and as a family and a business we base the amount of money on the amount of success. We support the U, UW, UVA and UCLA. The crazy part is my tickets at Williams are the most expensive of the 4 schools and for the worst product by a mile. Not supply- demand either.
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It's not surprising about the tickets. Drives me insane that the U doesn't get it with that stuff. Shouldn't matter be way cheaper to go to a Wolves game than the Gophs. Williams arena shouldn't be twice the rent of the target center for state tournaments.
 

builtbadgers said:
Alumni gifts hit record highs in the years he won the conference, recruiting jumped this year as kids and parents were impressed by the winning and by how he handled himself after such a tough loss. ESPN calls the UVA program elite, seats are sold out, road trips sold out, 3 time national coach of the year. If we won a single Big 10 title under Pitino people would remember it forever. Sweet 16 will not get Alumni like me to write huge checks like the constant buzz of season long excellence. Would i trade a conference title for a final 4. of course. But at the end of last year UVA was the only ACC team that won a title of any kind. In that region of the country,in such close proximity to actual powerhouse programs it matters. Take your shots all you want but what he has done at UVA has paid huge dividends. If it is worthless you have not seen what it means to the fans of the winning ACC teams, not to mention the pictures and trophies and banners held by the players of the schools that win them, huge celebrations ! Best part is the joy of those players and coaches as they are the actual competitors and the ones who actually do the work, the actual fight for competition. Even for him personally it brings great incentive pay. You do realize to lose the 16-1 game you have to win more than we ever have to become a one seed. You said no one remembers, Jay Bilas has brought it up countless times this year. He has only one thing left to do and that is coming, perhaps not this year but he is just putting his best teams out there now and what is coming next is better. You mock it with a one game example but it is the success i would gift a ton of money here for. Do not think people do not care, my god, we have NIT banners, we hang just getting to the NCAA banners so if we had the year UVA did at 31-3, the final AP number one and their double ACC title and tourney berth we would have hung 4 banners in one year !
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And a nerve has been struck.

Repeat it over and over as many times as you want. All anyone will remember is #1 lost to #16.


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scools12 said:
And a nerve has been struck.

Repeat it over and over as many times as you want. All anyone will remember is #1 lost to #16.


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You have a point but it's not as strong as you think. An athletic program's duty is to its own fans. Yes, someone who is not a fan of U of VA may prefer to remember that historical loss. Someone who is a fan of U of VA will look back very fondly to that great season where they won 31 games and lost only 3. Just like Minnesota fans look back on the 1997 season very fondly despite the subsequent events.
 



dpodoll68 said:
When will the "signing in-state recruits" meme come to an end? It's been posted and proven time and again that nobody, not even the best basketball schools in the country, keeps all of their in-state players home, and we're just supposed to ignore that and pretend that Minnesota will be the one school to do it? Why do posters keep doing this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.
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You're never going to keep them all, but the Gophers' best teams in the past 40 years have all had key cogs who were local players. That there's more talent now than there ever has been is an opportunity that begs to be exploited.

I think it was Damian Johnson who tweeted that Minnesota players are a solid bet to recruit because they tend to be coached well, especially in the fundamentals and team game. That's why so many of them hit the ground running where they end up (Wright) instead of struggle within a structured system (Washington) even if they might not have as much raw talent. In this respect, emphasizing local recruiting shapes up as a savvy strategy. If I were a program somewhere else in the country I'd be all over this area.
 
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scools12 said:
And a nerve has been struck.

Repeat it over and over as many times as you want. All anyone will remember is #1 lost to #16.


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Meanwhile the donations keep piling up, the victories keep piling up, the recruits keep coming, the national praise, the coach of the year awards, the constant steady march to the hall of fame. You may think of that loss first and only but the recruits measure the victories, the chance to play for Bennett. He sells the top rated public, winning, playing for someone who made it, no cheating or scum, development, NBA sustainability. When you say all anyone will remember your wrong, recruits and alumni remember success we have never had.
 

scools12 said:
And a nerve has been struck.

Repeat it over and over as many times as you want. All anyone will remember is #1 lost to #16.


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You obviously don't understand something. UVA got into a position to be a #1 seed, something only three other teams in the country could claim. The loss to a #16 seed, while historic, is washed over in the memories of fans. They remember the positive outlier because it was more reflective of the season, than the negative of a fluke loss.

The reminding people of the #1 seed losing to a #16 seed just shows how petty and desperate the detractors of the UVA program are. This makes it easy for donors to brush it off and keep donating.

The difference at UMN is that the big memories are fading and the petty prairie dog detractors get a thrill out of "touching a nerve" even though they are vigilant about telling everyone to watch out for bad touching.

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dpodoll68 said:
When will the "signing in-state recruits" meme come to an end? It's been posted and proven time and again that nobody, not even the best basketball schools in the country, keeps all of their in-state players home, and we're just supposed to ignore that and pretend that Minnesota will be the one school to do it? Why do posters keep doing this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.
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I agree you aren't going to get all instate recruits but you should be able to get 1 of the top 3 every year, recent history suggests that you would get a top quality B1G player, Pitino struck out in 2017 and is striking out again in 2019. That is not good recruiting, last year was good but is that an outlier and something unlikely to happen again.
 

I'm seeing more and more of the Pitino guys disappearing.

What does this mean?
 


scools12 said:
And a nerve has been struck.

Repeat it over and over as many times as you want. All anyone will remember is #1 lost to #16.


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Every year there will be four #1 seeds. Virginia will be remembered as the only #1 seed to lose to a #16 seed for a very long time.

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Ewert86PC said:
You obviously don't understand something.
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I understand a lot more than you.

Getting to the top of the conference though nice and all making a run in the tourney has over taken where you finish during the conference season.




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Moonlight said:
On the women's side, Kenisha Bell in one of her better games led all scorers, had a double double with rebounds - and had 7 turnovers. Then she had a game with only 1 TO. We've never really had a chance to take the good with the bad with Washington.

Richard seems irrational about IW. I think we've been backed into 'hoping' the problem is IW because if it isnt, its a bigger problem. Pitino looks lost in managing this year's roster.
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The difference is that Bell is a finalist for Defensive Player of the Year, while IW has defense as an afterthought.
 

scools12 said:
I understand a lot more than you.

Getting to the top of the conference though nice and all making a run in the tourney has over taken where you finish during the conference season.




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Well, one thing you don't understand very well: syntax.
 


Goldteam said:
It has been obvious for quite a while.
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This is the it’s time to make a change thread. The pitino backers are over in the “I love Richard” and “say something positive” thread.
 
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scools12 said:
I understand a lot more than you.

Getting to the top of the conference though nice and all making a run in the tourney has over taken where you finish during the conference season.




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I put that as doubtful that you understand more than me. It's obvious you don't have the foggiest idea how fundraising actually works. People who financially donate to the University dont do it out of blind altruism. They want know their contribution makes a difference and the school is a contributor to the overall wellbeing of the state.

Boosters and other financial contributors dont see a return on investment. The argument that the U is a contributor to the overall wellbeing of the state is nebulous at best when there are no visible or tangible benefits.

Athletics, for better or worse, are a visible representation of the University. Finishing in the middle to bottom of the conference is a representation that UMN accepts mediocrity, both athletically and academically.

Despite all the internal academic stories they throw out in the local news, it does not get broad enough reach. Look at how much advertising you see for other Upper Midwest colleges and universities there is in the Twin Cities. You don't see UMN among them. You see Minnesota State - Mankato. North Dakota, NDSU, Northern Iowa, St Cloud State, St Thomas, and Hamline, among those that spring readily to mind. UMN is nowhere to be found. This portrays UMN as uncompetitive; out of sight out of mind.

It is all about perception and optics. That is what you do not understand.

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WriterGoph said:
You definitely don't seem like a troll...at all.
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You are either a troll or non-gopher fan to this poster if you go against Pitino.

You can ask this WriterGoph guy 1000 times what he likes about Pitino, and you'll never get an answer.

He will just go to his catch phrases.
 

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