It's all about the B10 record

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badgergopher said:
I believe the Gophers would have gone to the Rose Bowl in '03 but not '99. In '99 there were teams with a better overall record, which I believe came before the 'drought' tiebreaker.
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I'm not so sure badgergopher. In 1990 there was a 4 way tie in the Big Ten. Michigan, Iowa, Illinois and MSU all finished with 6-2 records. Iowa went to the Rose Bowl with an overall 8-4 record. Michigan was 9-3 overall. MSU was 8-3-1. Illinois was 8-4. Ironically, that year, OSU was 5-2-1 and our Gophers were 5-3. I don't recall too many years in modern history of the Big Ten in which 6 teams were bunched any more closely. And, that is the year that on the last game of the regular Big Ten Season that the Gophers beat Iowa.

Yet, Iowa was the team that came out of that scrum with the trip to the Rose Bowl, where they lost to Washington, I believe.

Also, in 2000, there were 3 teams tied at 6-2. In that situation, Purdue had an 8-4 record over all and once again, Michigan had a 9-3 record overall. Purdue went to the Rose Bowl.

In 2004 Iowa and Michigan tied at 7-1 in Big Ten Play. Michigan was 9-3 and went to the Rose Bowl. Iowa was 10-2 and did not go to the Rose Bowl Game.


*****Please note: A tip of the hat goes to Eric Thrall and his Gopher Football History site work. Thanks for putting that all together Eric. I use your site often to visit the history of Golden Gopher Football!*****

Kudos to Eric Thrall!


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imthewalrus said:
I'm not so sure badgergopher. In 1990 there was a 4 way tie in the Big Ten. Michigan, Iowa, Illinois and MSU all finished with 6-2 records. Iowa went to the Rose Bowl with an overall 8-4 record. Michigan was 9-3 overall. MSU was 8-3-1. Illinois was 8-4. Ironically, that year, OSU was 5-2-1 and our Gophers were 5-3. I don't recall too many years in modern history of the Big Ten in which 6 teams were bunched any more closely. And, that is the year that on the last game of the regular Big Ten Season that the Gophers beat Iowa.

Yet, Iowa was the team that came out of that scrum with the trip to the Rose Bowl, where they lost to Washington, I believe.

Also, in 2000, there were 3 teams tied at 6-2. In that situation, Purdue had an 8-4 record over all and once again, Michigan had a 9-3 record overall. Purdue went to the Rose Bowl.

In 2004 Iowa and Michigan tied at 7-1 in Big Ten Play. Michigan was 9-3 and went to the Rose Bowl. Iowa was 10-2 and did not go to the Rose Bowl Game.

*****Please note: A tip of the hat goes to Eric Thrall and his Gopher Football History site work. Thanks for putting that all together Eric. I use your site often to visit the history of Golden Gopher Football!*****

Kudos to Eric Thrall!

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I wonder if those logjams were resolved by head to head tiebreakers? My point of reference was 1993 where UW and OSU were both 10-1-1. My recollection was that the overall record was essential. Specifically I recall people saying that if UW hadn't come from behind to beat SMU in Dallas earlier that year, that they wouldn't have been selected for the Rose Bowl. UW & OSU tied in Madison that year.

Agree that Eric's site is awesome.
 

badgergopher said:
I wonder if those logjams were resolved by head to head tiebreakers? My point of reference was 1993 where UW and OSU were both 10-1-1. My recollection was that the overall record was essential. Specifically I recall people saying that if UW hadn't come from behind to beat SMU in Dallas earlier that year, that they wouldn't have been selected for the Rose Bowl. UW & OSU tied in Madison that year.

Agree that Eric's site is awesome.
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I'm pretty sure that the "Golden Rule of the Big Ten for the Rose Bowl had been the game went to the team that had not been there the longest time in the case of a tie for the Conference Championship. Ironically, The Ohio State University had suffered a pretty long absence from the Rose Bowl during the decade in question. The 1993 Big Ten Champ played on 1/1/1994 that year. Ohio State had not been there since 1984. That was a LONG time for OSU standards. But, there was finally some competition in the Big Ten with Iowa, Illinois, MSU and Michigan being more competitive back then.

But, the clincher for Wisconsin was the fact that they had not been to the Rosebowl since 1963 with Ron Vanderkillen (sp?) and Pat Richter participating in a shoot-out loss in the Rose Bowl Game. So, even though it had been a long time by Buckeye standards since they had been there....it had been a LOT longer since the Badgers had been there.

Ironically: the ONLY Big Ten loss for the Badgers was handed to them by Jim Wacker's Gophers on Minnesota Homecoming Evening at the Dome...by a 28-21 score. The Gophers went up big on several pass interceptions and hung on to defeat those Badgers who went on to defeat UCLA in the Rose Bowl Game.

To the best of my knowledge it was always the team that had the longest absence from the Rose Bowl game that was awarded that trip.

Just recall the 1967 Big Ten Title picture shared by Indiana, Purdue and Minnesota. The Rose Bowl game went to Indiana. Yet, Purdue had destroyed the Gophers that year. The Gophers then destroyed Indiana. And on the final day of the Big Ten Season, Purdue's Perry Williams fumbled the ball near the Indiana Goal Line as he was about to score the winning t.d. for Purdue in the final minute of that game. Indiana recovered and won the Old Oaken Bucket game and the right to go to the Rose Bowl. Had Purdue won, the Gophers would have gone to the Rose Bowl because Purdue had been there more recently than the Gophers.

Perhaps someone knows something I don't know, but, I am pretty sure it was always that way. The only thing that might change it now is the fact that at times the Rose Bowl Game was used as a BCS N.C. Series game...

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Kills team in year 3 show a big jump so I'm hoping we can go from two big ten wins to 4,

Wins vs. Iowa, northwestern,Wisconsin! Indiana Possible penn state , michigan st

Tough. At Michigan home Nebraska
 



My recollection is that in the case of a tie the team that had the longest Rosebowl drought was chosen. However, even if that is not the case being tied at 6-2 atop the conference and just not being chosen still is damn close to a Rosebowl berth. I think anyway you cut it '99 and '03 were great teams and exciting years of Gopher Football. Considering how few and far between those have been I would hope most fans, no matter what they thought of the coach, would be proud of what the players did on the field.

Go Gophers!
 

Can't find a link to the old rules but from '06 o '09 the following applied. Overall record came just before BCS 'drought'. In '10 the highest BCS ranking supplanted all but the head to head rule.

http://mvictors.com/?p=323
 

At some point in time, history is not all that relevant anymore. The Gophers ended the1960, 1961 and 1962 seasons in the AP top 10. I would argue that those performances were completely unrelated to the 1-10 season that we had in 1983.

We just need to let go of the baggage from the past if we are ever going to move on.

At thi point, I am only interested in one thing... improvement. I would be happy with a winning season of any kind (7-6 or better). We have only had a winning record one season out of the past seven. That, to me, would clearly be improvement. After that, we can worry about 2014 - not 1983.
 

when Mason had a good defense we were a genuinely competitive team. Unfortunately I believe both of those teams were in his first six years. We never did figure out how to get dbacks. If he had either this or last years dbackfiled we might have gone to a good bowlif not the Rose bowl.
He also had the misfortune of coaching against Drew B who just ate our D's up due to lack of pass rush and lack of dbackfield speed.
 



I'm sure that the b.c.s. "b.s." changed some things during that 2006-2009 time frame

badgergopher said:
Can't find a link to the old rules but from '06 o '09 the following applied. Overall record came just before BCS 'drought'. In '10 the highest BCS ranking supplanted all but the head to head rule.

http://mvictors.com/?p=323
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Prior to that, however, my simple method is just to go back on E. T's Gopher History that also includes Big Ten Finishes and Rose Bowl invitations and check the Conference standings and see which team was invited to the Rose Bowl. Even more important to me than what ever the "conference rule for Rose Bowl Participation Selection..." would be to see which teams were actually invited to the Rose Bowl Game. In the case of a tie...the team that was actually invited to and participated in the Rose Bowl Game for the Big Ten will never be a lie...

In virtually all the examples I found, it was always the Conference record that appeared to be the record that mattered. There were too many cases where there was a two, three or four team tie at 6-2 in which a team with less wins over-all was selected to represent the Big Ten Conference in the "run for the roses" at Pasadena.

The only real change from that format occurred in the 1962 Rose Bowl game in which 1961 champ The Ohio State University Faculty and Alumni Board voted to NOT accept the bid as the Big Ten Champ, opening the door for the 2nd place University of Minnesota Golden Gophers to accept the invitation to the Rose Bowl where they defeated UCLA, making up for their 1961 Rose Bowl Game loss to Washington.

During the later years, after the b.c.s. stuff came into effect, I believe one year Northwestern tied for the Conference Championship, but since the Rose Bowl game was going to be some hot-shot b.c.s. game, NU didn't go to Pasadena as the B1G rep. and played in sonme other bowl game. (I don't have time to look the details up right now....)

So, tradition keeps taking a back seat to the new...the novel...the flavor of the day...and that's the way it will be from now until they don't do these kinds of things any longer...

But...there was a time when that's the way it was done. Just check the record books out...

; 0 )
 

I completely agree with the thesis of this thread. Conference record is the end all, be all for any team in the Mighty Big Ten. It's what got Kill's predecessors canned, and it's what got Tubby canned just a few weeks ago.

When it comes to a Big Ten title and a Rose Bowl Berth, what's most disheartening to me is the fact that we now have to win a conference championship game to get that Rose Bowl bid, putting it even further from reach. I'm generally a positive guy when it comes to Gopher football. But knowing that we could theoretically go 8-0 in regular season conference play, only to have OSU or the like from the other division snatch it from us in a one game showdown, depresses me to no end (as unrealistic as this scenario laid out might be). That said, I'd be elated just to make it to said Championship game.
 

Gopher Bandanna Guy said:
I completely agree with the thesis of this thread. Conference record is the end all, be all for any team in the Mighty Big Ten. It's what got Kill's predecessors canned, and it's what got Tubby canned just a few weeks ago.

When it comes to a Big Ten title and a Rose Bowl Berth, what's most disheartening to me is the fact that we now have to win a conference championship game to get that Rose Bowl bid, putting it even further from reach. I'm generally a positive guy when it comes to Gopher football. But knowing that we could theoretically go 8-0 in regular season conference play, only to have OSU or the like from the other division snatch it from us in a one game showdown, depresses me to no end (as unrealistic as this scenario laid out might be). That said, I'd be elated just to make it to said Championship game.
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That would be terrible, but a more likely scenario for us would be something like what happened to Wisconsin this year. Get to the championship game with 2, maybe 3, maybe 4 losses, and then anything can happen in 1 game.
 

For what it's worth - just imagine that the Gophs rolled off a great season and made it to the Conf Championship game. What would that week be like leading up to the game? The anticipation - anxiety - stomach acid? There would be people on this board just losing it. Especially for the older fans like Wren/the Walrus - to be that close to the Holy Grail after waiting so long?

I hope we get to find out what that's like..........
 




imthewalrus said:
Prior to that, however, my simple method is just to go back on E. T's Gopher History that also includes Big Ten Finishes and Rose Bowl invitations and check the Conference standings and see which team was invited to the Rose Bowl. Even more important to me than what ever the "conference rule for Rose Bowl Participation Selection..." would be to see which teams were actually invited to the Rose Bowl Game. In the case of a tie...the team that was actually invited to and participated in the Rose Bowl Game for the Big Ten will never be a lie...

In virtually all the examples I found, it was always the Conference record that appeared to be the record that mattered. There were too many cases where there was a two, three or four team tie at 6-2 in which a team with less wins over-all was selected to represent the Big Ten Conference in the "run for the roses" at Pasadena.

But...there was a time when that's the way it was done. Just check the record books out...

; 0 )
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In 1990 Iowa beat Michigan, Michigan State, and Illinois head to head. They tied those three teams for the title. I'm pretty sure this is why they went to the Rose Bowl. Their Rose Bowl drought was also not the longest at that point. Michigan State went in '88, Michigan in '89, Illinois in '83, and Iowa in '86. If the 'drought rule decided this one, Illinois would have gone.
 

imthewalrus said:
I'

Yet, Iowa was the team that came out of that scrum with the trip to the Rose Bowl, where they lost to Washington, I believe.

Also, in 2000, there were 3 teams tied at 6-2. In that situation, Purdue had an 8-4 record over all and once again, Michigan had a 9-3 record overall. Purdue went to the Rose Bowl.

In 2004 Iowa and Michigan tied at 7-1 in Big Ten Play. Michigan was 9-3 and went to the Rose Bowl. Iowa was 10-2 and did not go to the Rose Bowl Game.


*****Please note: A tip of the hat goes to Eric Thrall and his Gopher Football History site work. Thanks for putting that all together Eric. I use your site often to visit the history of Golden Gopher Football!*****

Kudos to Eric Thrall!


; 0 )
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Just checked and in 2000 Purdue beat both Michigan and Northwestern head to head. In 2004 Michigan beat Iowa head to head (also, Iowa had a longer Rose Bowl & BCS drought). My contention is that overall record came after head to head and before longest RB 'drought'. I don't think we'll be able to find a case that either proves or disproves it.
 

badgergopher said:
Just checked and in 2000 Purdue beat both Michigan and Northwestern head to head. In 2004 Michigan beat Iowa head to head (also, Iowa had a longer Rose Bowl & BCS drought). My contention is that overall record came after head to head and before longest RB 'drought'. I don't think we'll be able to find a case that either proves or disproves it.
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By all means, I believe that in the case of a tie between two or more Big Ten Teams, that if there was head to head competition between the teams, the winner would go to the Rose Bowl. If they did not meet each other, it would be the drought rule.

I kept thinking of your example of wisky having had to hang on to defeat SMU and somehow that just didn't make any sense to me. And since there were numerous Big Ten Teams that had a worse over-all record, it just seemed to me that only conference results entered into the selection process. But, I'd say yes, in the case of a tie for the championship that the head to head results are tie-breaker number one. If teams tie that did not have head to head competition, I believe the drought rule would be the 2nd-level tie breaker.

Go Gophs!

Let's get out there and win our way to a nice bowl game invitation in 2013!
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If the gophers beat scUM in 03, they beat Sparty the next week, that sparty lost was like watching kid whose puppy got murdered. In 99 who knows what happens I think we still beat PSU, they were thinking national title and are still steaming from that one. Plus we had played them tough the past couple years. Who knows maybe we lose to Indiana or Iowa. Everything is what it is.
 

And in the end...
ONLY the Big Ten Wins the coach makes.
can save his job from the Big Ten losses he takes...

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