It's all about the B10 record

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Playing UNC or buying out the contract, the real measure of a program is the record vs. their peers in the conference.

Below are the # of times each B10 school (excluding NE) has won 6 or more games in the conference since 1980 (last 33 season):

Michigan - 23
Ohio State - 21
Iowa - 11
Penn State - 9 (only been in conference since '93)
Michigan State - 8
Wisconsin - 7
Purdue - 6
Illinois - 5
Northwestern - 4
Indiana - 1
Minnesota - 0

Gophs will start gaining respect in the conference and nationally when they start winning 5 or more B10 games on a fairly consistent basis.
 

Wow that is pretty shocking to see it ladi out like that.
 

I renewed my tickets 2 days ago for the 9th straight year, and I am excited to see what this season has to offer, but that is really depressing to see having been born in 1979.
 

The last time we went 6-2 was 1973, but we have gone 5-3 several times during the last 30 years. I know that's not consoling but going 6-2 typically means you're in the hunt for or have won the B1G.
 

The last time we went 6-2 was 1973, but we have gone 5-3 several times during the last 30 years. I know that's not consoling but going 6-2 typically means you're in the hunt for or have won the B1G.
I think that's the point, however. Mason had two such seasons at 5-3, and Gutekunst had two also. 1999 and 2003 were good seasons (too young to remember before that), but both fell short of the "in the hunt" designation that you're talking about.

It's not just that we haven't won the Big Ten in the last 40+ years, it's that we really haven't had any seasons where we came all that close either.
 


Ok, somebody. Lets go ahead and blame Brewster and/or Maturi for everything bad about Gopher football since the 1960's. Who is going to be the first?
 


Great stat, thanks for posting. Excited for this to move from 0 to 1.
 




Ok, somebody. Lets go ahead and blame Brewster and/or Maturi for everything bad about Gopher football since the 1960's. Who is going to be the first?

In fairness, Maturi and Brewster were at the helm for a fairly substantial percentage of Minnesota's 0-8 B1G seasons during that stretch. Not going 6-2 for 33 years is depressing. Going 0-8 even once is sheer, unbridled incompetence.
 

It's actually worse than it looks. As far as I can tell the Gophers have never entered November with four Big Ten wins from Cal Stoll forward. The implication being that there hasn't been a sniff of the conference title.

We should all keep this in mind when we get down on the Gopher following. There was a lot of hype for Michigan in 2003. What if we'd won that game and the next one? We flat out don't know what the gameday would look like for the Gophers hosting a game on 11/14 with a Big Ten record of 5-1 or 6-0. For all we know it coulld be pandemonium - 1987 Minnesota Twins.

It will eventually happen and it will be awesome when it does.
 

Just wait until the results of this years B1G games start being posted. I'll quietly watch as the two sides of the coaching debate take their places as the wins vs losses take the over all B1G record of the coach to one side of the balance sheet or the other. I, of course will root for neither side. Coaches are not worth defending...or...pretending about...and they certainly are not worth bashing. People, are going to have feelings one way or another. Either let people feel however they feel...or quit talking about it. Mason was terrible. Brewster was incredible. Maturi could never have been topped. President B. was the best. Coach Kill is the worlds finest coach...unless, of course, you don't care for him.

I don't care any more. I just don't care. ...

; 0 )
 

Just wait until the results of this years B1G games start being posted. I'll quietly watch as the two sides of the coaching debate take their places as the wins vs losses take the over all B1G record of the coach to one side of the balance sheet or the other. I, of course will root for neither side. Coaches are not worth defending...or...pretending about...and they certainly are not worth bashing. People, are going to have feelings one way or another. Either let people feel however they feel...or quit talking about it. Mason was terrible. Brewster was incredible. Maturi could never have been topped. President B. was the best. Coach Kill is the worlds finest coach...unless, of course, you don't care for him.

I don't care any more. I just don't care. ...

; 0 )

Another bull*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# remark wren. If you really don't care any more you wouldn't be posting a comment here ever time Mason name comes up. Look on the good side of this though, if you really didn't care wren think of all the money you will save on not having to buy any more candles.:horse:
 



I think that's the point, however. Mason had two such seasons at 5-3, and Gutekunst had two also. 1999 and 2003 were good seasons (too young to remember before that), but both fell short of the "in the hunt" designation that you're talking about.

It's not just that we haven't won the Big Ten in the last 40+ years, it's that we really haven't had any seasons where we came all that close either.

This just isn't true. The Gophers were an overtime loss and a last minute field goal away from going to the Rosebowl in 1999 and 2003. That is literally as close as it gets. It can not get closer. People seem to just lump these seasons in with the rest of Mason's and I don't understand why. We were literally seconds away from going to the Rosebowl. Twice.
 

This just isn't true. The Gophers were an overtime loss and a last minute field goal away from going to the Rosebowl in 1999 and 2003. That is literally as close as it gets. It can not get closer. People seem to just lump these seasons in with the rest of Mason's and I don't understand why. We were literally seconds away from going to the Rosebowl. Twice.
Changing the outcome of multiple games is not that close. Obviously it can get closer. You can be one win away. When you are 5-3 in league play, and another team is 7-1 (and that team beat you), that's not that close.
 

That is why Mason was a complete failure who was 32 -48 in the Big 10 and should have been fired before 2007.
Wacker won 20% of his Big 10 games, Brewster 22%, and Kill has won 25%. But Mason was a "complete failure" for winning 40%. Perhaps you should change your name to Go4Joke!
 

I think that's the point, however. Mason had two such seasons at 5-3, and Gutekunst had two also. 1999 and 2003 were good seasons (too young to remember before that), but both fell short of the "in the hunt" designation that you're talking about.

It's not just that we haven't won the Big Ten in the last 40+ years, it's that we really haven't had any seasons where we came all that close either.

IIRC, Michigan went 7-1 in 2003, and two others (maybe just one) went 6-2. If we had beaten Michigan alone, we would've been at a 6-2 tie for first place. We had the longest Rose Bowl drought of those teams, and we would have gone to Pasadena.
 

In fairness, Maturi and Brewster were at the helm for a fairly substantial percentage of Minnesota's 0-8 B1G seasons during that stretch. Not going 6-2 for 33 years is depressing. Going 0-8 even once is sheer, unbridled incompetence.

Fairness? The Gophers twice zeroed out in the Big Ten from 1983 to 1988 before either of those guys got to the U. The Gophers went Zero for 9 and 0-6-2. Thus making those A.D. and Coaches sheer, unbridled incompetents? Going from 1981 to 1997 they had a single B.T.W. sixth times. So that would make those A.D. and Coaches just "unbridled incompetents?" Even Mason had one of those single win Big Ten Seasons in 1997. Heck he had a couple of two wins seasons also and he was a GOOD Coach.

- Mason was a good Head Coach. You can't look back on his overall coaching records or his record here and say that he wasn't a good coach. He might have even been a very good coach considering how Kent State, Kansas and yes Minnesota performed before he got there and after he left. It was all the things he did and didn't do that last season that got him fired but we've went through that again, and again, and again...

- Brewster turned-out to be a lousy head coach and it was a bad hire. His lack of head coaching and play calling experience jumped right out at you. He tried to hire his "experience". That didn't work.

- Salem had head coaching experience albeit at a much, much lower level. Injuries, lack of depth, relatively inexperienced Assistants and not being much of a recruiter led to his firing. The last of the "M Club" hires by the way, for the "we only hire Minnesotans" crowd.

- Holtz was "a winner" as we've heard a 100,000 times. Overall he was a GREAT coach and maybe he could have won here; but when he was a loser he quit on the Jets DURING the season and here. He had an overall record of 10-12. He did though go 6-5 and 4-4 in the Big Ten his second year. The TEAM went 7-5 after winning the Bowl Game. Yeah, Lou had a chance. The thing is for Lou "when the going gets tough, he gets out."

- Gutey was a solid Assistant Coach but turned out to be a pretty lousy recruiter, so he didn't work out.

-Wacker had solid experience at lower levels. He wasn't a bad recruiter either. He just couldn't make it against the "big boys'. Maybe he was to concerned about recruiting only "Choir Boys"? He needed to win 5 games in 1996 to keep his job. A lot of Gopher fans were pretty worried when he won his fourth game in week 10. They got "Good News/Bad News" the next week. They got rid of Wacker but they lost to Iowa.

Kill? He had a lot of Head Coaching experience but like Wacker and Salem at lower levels. Unlike them, but like Mason before him, he brought his staff with him. No one knows yet what kind of recruiter he is. He may be getting the kids he wants but not highly talented ones. Much to his and the staff's credit they readily admit that they'd love to have some 4 and 5-Star kids but can't get them to even listen, at least not yet.

Is Jerry a solid, good or very good coach? We don't know. He's had two back-to-back 2 B1G win seasons. Not good, but not unexpected. History says that he'll need to be a good coach to get 3 and a very good coach to get 4 or 5. Keeping it positive, the upcoming 9 Conference Game Seasons will give him an extra shot at that win.

Holtz, Gutey and Mason got us to 4. Gutey and Mason even got us to 5. It's been already been noted that you have to go all the way back to Stoll to get us to 6. Cal WAS a good coach. Looking at the schedules he played can't come to any other conclusion. In 1973 he may have been a very good coach.

Here's to hoping that Kill gets there too.:drink:
 

This just isn't true. The Gophers were an overtime loss and a last minute field goal away from going to the Rosebowl in 1999 and 2003. That is literally as close as it gets. It can not get closer. People seem to just lump these seasons in with the rest of Mason's and I don't understand why. We were literally seconds away from going to the Rosebowl. Twice.

Sorry, but I don't see it that way when the overtime loss was midway through the season. Saying the Vikings were an overtime loss away from the Superbowl after the '98 season is one thing. Saying the Gophers were an overtime loss away in 1999 when that overtime loss occurred in the second Big Ten game is another thing entirely.
 


Wacker won 20% of his Big 10 games, Brewster 22%, and Kill has won 25%. But Mason was a "complete failure" for winning 40%. Perhaps you should change your name to Go4Joke!

Great point! Mason wasn't perfect by any means but he had the more success here then most and calling him a "complete failure" is no where close to accurate.
 

Sorry, but I don't see it that way when the overtime loss was midway through the season. Saying the Vikings were an overtime loss away from the Superbowl after the '98 season is one thing. Saying the Gophers were an overtime loss away in 1999 when that overtime loss occurred in the second Big Ten game is another thing entirely.

Changing the outcome of multiple games is not that close. Obviously it can get closer. You can be one win away. When you are 5-3 in league play, and another team is 7-1 (and that team beat you), that's not that close.

I'm not sure what there is to get here. I only made a factual statement. In 1999 if Minnesota (5-3) had beaten Wisconsin (7-1) in overtime instead of losing they both finish 6-2. That sends Minnesota to the Rosebowl based on tie breaking procedures. Same scenario in 2003 except it's Michigan at 7-1 and it's the 4th quarter and not overtime. I'm not saying we needed to change multiple games in a given year. I'm not saying we even had to change an entire game. We literally were an overtime in 1999 or one quarter in 2003 from going to the Rosebowl. Any season that is that close to the ultimate goal seems like a successful season to me. Why Minnesota fans continually choose to ignore these seasons I can't understand. You might think poorly of Mason (and he had some clunkers and faults no doubt) but these 2 seasons were very good and very close to being unbelievable.
 

I'm not sure what there is to get here. I only made a factual statement. In 1999 if Minnesota (5-3) had beaten Wisconsin (7-1) in overtime instead of losing they both finish 6-2. That sends Minnesota to the Rosebowl based on tie breaking procedures. Same scenario in 2003 except it's Michigan at 7-1 and it's the 4th quarter and not overtime. I'm not saying we needed to change multiple games in a given year. I'm not saying we even had to change an entire game. We literally were an overtime in 1999 or one quarter in 2003 from going to the Rosebowl. Any season that is that close to the ultimate goal seems like a successful season to me. Why Minnesota fans continually choose to ignore these seasons I can't understand. You might think poorly of Mason (and he had some clunkers and faults no doubt) but these 2 seasons were very good and very close to being unbelievable.

Oh, I have a few ideas why some Minnesota fans continually choose to ignore these seasons. I don't understand it either. I also don't forget that those seasons happened They were the best couple of seasons that I have seen since the days of 1967 and 1968, Cal Stoll had a good year or two, but the problem back then was that the Big Ten was the Big 2, little 8 conference. In Cal's best year, the Gophers were 6-2 in conference play, but lost to OSU 56-7 and lost to Michigan by as score of 34-7. Michigan and OSU finished 7-0-1 each that year and tied for the number 1 & 2 positions. Illinois, MSU, Purdue and Northwestern finished below the Gophers with identical 4-4 conference marks. It was a very good year though and a fun year to be a Gopher Fan. At least by 1990, one of two Gutty 5-3 conference finishes, the Gophers had the best chance they had under Gutty of going to the Rose Bowl. The Big Two still had a fairly strong Michigan...but...OSU had a down year. Iowa, Michigan, MSU and Illinois all tied for the conference championship at 6-2 with Iowa going to the RB. The sad part about that year was that Gutty did beat Hayden Fry last conference game of the season to achieve the 5-3 mark, but Fry went to the RB. It was a fun year though!

In 1986 Gutty was 5-3, but OSU and Michigan tied at 7-1. It was a very nice year!

As for me: 1999 and 2003 were great years to be a Golden Gopher Football Fan. All-American players...All-Big Ten players...I had a GREAT time...a time I will not easily forget. But, they were what they were. Really fun years to be a Gopher Fan. I'm hoping Coach Kill can get us back to those years...and beyond. He'll have to get it done in Conference Play. I'll have to see it with my own eyes though. Just like I saw 1999 and 2003 with my own eyes... But, 1967, 1968, 1973, 1986, 1990, 1999 and 2003 were all very fun years. I'd take ANY of those years any time! They only partially got the job done in 1967, and the rest of those years didn't quite get us there...but...we were CLOSE, and close was a heck of a lot better than NOT being close...you can't fool me!

: 0 )
 

I'm not sure what there is to get here. I only made a factual statement. In 1999 if Minnesota (5-3) had beaten Wisconsin (7-1) in overtime instead of losing they both finish 6-2. That sends Minnesota to the Rosebowl based on tie breaking procedures. Same scenario in 2003 except it's Michigan at 7-1 and it's the 4th quarter and not overtime. I'm not saying we needed to change multiple games in a given year. I'm not saying we even had to change an entire game. We literally were an overtime in 1999 or one quarter in 2003 from going to the Rosebowl. Any season that is that close to the ultimate goal seems like a successful season to me. Why Minnesota fans continually choose to ignore these seasons I can't understand. You might think poorly of Mason (and he had some clunkers and faults no doubt) but these 2 seasons were very good and very close to being unbelievable.

The difference is that if the '98 Vikings win the playoff game against Atlanta, they go to the Superbowl, period. If the Gophers win the overtime game in 1999, maybe they choke later with the pressure of the Rose Bowl hanging over their heads, or maybe a team in front of them plays harder knowing Minnesota is at their heels, or maybe Minnesota doesn't rest someone who's hurt because they are in first place and that person gets hurt later and isn't available to hold for Nystromnat PSU, or maybe PSU plays better and wins because they think this 2nd place Minnesota team is to be taken seriously, etc.

Nobody is saying it wasn't a great season or might have been a special season. But to think that changing the outcome of the second game of the season wouldn't have had any effect on anything for the rest of the season requires a stretch of the imagination.
 

Another bull*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# remark wren. If you really don't care any more you wouldn't be posting a comment here ever time Mason name comes up. Look on the good side of this though, if you really didn't care wren think of all the money you will save on not having to buy any more candles.:horse:

Easy Killer. Sometimes its best to let a sleeping dog sleep.
 


The difference is that if the '98 Vikings win the playoff game against Atlanta, they go to the Superbowl, period. If the Gophers win the overtime game in 1999, maybe they choke later with the pressure of the Rose Bowl hanging over their heads, or maybe a team in front of them plays harder knowing Minnesota is at their heels, or maybe Minnesota doesn't rest someone who's hurt because they are in first place and that person gets hurt later and isn't available to hold for Nystromnat PSU, or maybe PSU plays better and wins because they think this 2nd place Minnesota team is to be taken seriously, etc.

Nobody is saying it wasn't a great season or might have been a special season. But to think that changing the outcome of the second game of the season wouldn't have had any effect on anything for the rest of the season requires a stretch of the imagination.

I have no problems with the butterfly effect argument. That doesn't invalidate what I said. We were 1 OT loss away and 1 4th quarter away in 2003. Those were great seasons. 2 reasons I jumped into this conversation, first because people were claiming we weren't even close to being RB bound in 40 years, which is just not true and second because there were posters saying things like this:

That is why Mason was a complete failure who was 32 -48 in the Big 10 and should have been fired before 2007.
 

I have no problems with the butterfly effect argument. That doesn't invalidate what I said. We were 1 OT loss away and 1 4th quarter away in 2003. Those were great seasons. 2 reasons I jumped into this conversation, first because people were claiming we weren't even close to being RB bound in 40 years, which is just not true and second because there were posters saying things like this:
No you're right, I didn't consider the effect of the tiebreakers. I can't even remember how it worked back then. Best ranking? Longest time since in the Rose Bowl? In both cases we would have finished with a bunch of teams at 6-2.
 

Gophs will start gaining respect in the conference and nationally when they start winning 5 or more B10 games on a fairly consistent basis.[/QUOTE said:
5 or more....Not too worried about this anymore.....Kill has this going in the right direction.
 

No you're right, I didn't consider the effect of the tiebreakers. I can't even remember how it worked back then. Best ranking? Longest time since in the Rose Bowl? In both cases we would have finished with a bunch of teams at 6-2.

I believe the Gophers would have gone to the Rose Bowl in '03 but not '99. In '99 there were teams with a better overall record, which I believe came before the 'drought' tiebreaker.
 




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