It literally pays to cheat…Jim Harbaugh working $11MM/year contract

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Years ago when Jim was in the NFL he was playing the vikings while the NFL had some replacement refs. Jim was out of timeouts so he threw a challenge flag on a play that you obviously could not challenge and after an explanation from the refs he declared that then he's calling timeout ... but he didn't have one, basically bullied the replacement refs into giving him a free timeout.

I always thought that was unsporting / colored how I viewed him.
 

I am in the minority and I truly can't figure out why, but I really like Harbaugh. He represents nearly everything I am against but there is something about him, that I have no idea what, but I am a fan...
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Years ago when Jim was in the NFL he was playing the vikings while the NFL had some replacement refs. Jim was out of timeouts so he threw a challenge flag on a play that you obviously could not challenge and after an explanation from the refs he declared that then he's calling timeout ... but he didn't have one, basically bullied the replacement refs into giving him a free timeout.

I always thought that was unsporting / colored how I viewed him.
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I didn't know we had challenge flags back then.
 

MNfootballfan said:
I am in the minority and I truly can't figure out why, but I really like Harbaugh. He represents nearly everything I am against but there is something about him, that I have no idea what, but I am a fan...
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I waffle whether I admire some of the things he does or shake my head and laugh at how dumb they seem. But I definitely pay attention to articles written about him. And I also can't figure why
he gets my attention.
Probably the coolest thing that hooked me on paying attention to Harbaugh was when he took the entire Michigan team and support personnel to Europe to visit the Pope.
Regarding the signal stealing Watergate...seems impossible he wouldn't be involved or benefit from it, but for some reason I'm like meh about the whole thing....leave him alone. Can't explain that either.
 




I don’t like the cheating and find it difficult to believe he didn’t know even if he didn’t manage it. But I’ll add a personal anecdote. While at Stanford a family I know had a relative on the team and the kid lost his dad in a tragic accident. The whole extended family only sings his praises for how he treated the player and them in the incident. They are savvy enough to read through insincerity too.
 





MplsGopher said:
Stallions lied to Harbaugh about where/how he got the information that he put on the laminated sheets and enabled him to inform coordinators what the opponents signals were.

It rests entirely on Stallions and no one else.
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I don't really have a strong opinion on Harbaugh or this whole scandal but you're nuts if you think everyone but Harbaugh knew what was going on. Reminds me of how Kirk Ferentz somehow was never aware of all the crap going on in his program.
 

Did I say everyone but Harbaugh? No.

I said only Stallions knew. As in, knew that he committed actions that are against NCAA rules, to obtain the knowledge that he then deployed. As I actually said, he (Stallions) lied to the entire staff (other than maybe one low level guy who they already let go) about how he got the info.
 




Gophers1992 said:
I don't really have a strong opinion on Harbaugh or this whole scandal but you're nuts if you think everyone but Harbaugh knew what was going on. Reminds me of how Kirk Ferentz somehow was never aware of all the crap going on in his program.
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I think it's plausible Harbaugh didn't know where the information came from....just thought the guy was studying tape for hours.
Obviously, at some point everybody knew but it doesn't mean there isn't a scenario where only Stallions knew how he got the info for a period of time.
Once it's done and you find out after the fact...what are you going to do, if you are Harbaugh?
Self report and a lot of innocent people could suffer. Hope nobody finds out is the path for most people I think.
Once they did find out, Harbaugh served the Big Ten's punishment. NCAA is still digging.
Mpls Gopher's theory seems possible to me....I'd like to believe it.
 

60's Guy said:
I waffle whether I admire some of the things he does or shake my head and laugh at how dumb they seem. But I definitely pay attention to articles written about him. And I also can't figure why
he gets my attention.
Probably the coolest thing that hooked me on paying attention to Harbaugh was when he took the entire Michigan team and support personnel to Europe to visit the Pope.
Regarding the signal stealing Watergate...seems impossible he wouldn't be involved or benefit from it, but for some reason I'm like meh about the whole thing....leave him alone. Can't explain that either.
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Do you think before the Pope visit he educated his team about how the catholic church has enabled pedophiles for decades? Nevermind, I doubt Jim knows anything about that either🙄
 

MonikerSchmoniker45 said:
Do you think before the Pope visit he educated his team about how the catholic church has enabled pedophiles for decades? Nevermind, I doubt Jim knows anything about that either🙄
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“I am tired of people saying that poor character is the only reason people do wrong things. Actually, circumstances cause people to act a certain way. It's from those circumstances that a person's attitude is affected followed by weakening of character. Not the reverse. If we had no faults of our own, we should not take so much pleasure in noticing those in others and judging their lives as either black or white, good or bad. We all live our lives in shades of gray.”
― Shannon L. Alder
 

It doesn't seem that there's been too much uproar from coaches. One article I read back when this blew up had a number of coached quoted anonymously. The coaches all indicated that the same information could easily be obtained and the insinuation was that these coaches were stealing signs as well but by other means. I get it that the letter of the law was broken - no in person scouting. But is the rule there because of some inherent unfairness or advantage to in person scouting? Or is it an artifact from a time when the schools decided that they didn't want to spend the money sending scouts to other games? I suspect its the latter. If it is an old rule and a budgetary thing, it probably goes back to when a half back was running the play in every down. The uproar seems more among the bored fans and the talking heads than among the coaches themselves, the ones who should really feel chapped.
 

60's Guy said:
“I am tired of people saying that poor character is the only reason people do wrong things. Actually, circumstances cause people to act a certain way. It's from those circumstances that a person's attitude is affected followed by weakening of character. Not the reverse. If we had no faults of our own, we should not take so much pleasure in noticing those in others and judging their lives as either black or white, good or bad. We all live our lives in shades of gray.”
― Shannon L. Alder
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I didn't get much out of that. I just found the last few lines ironic, quoted by a guy who spends most of his free time critiquing coaches and players performances.
 

swede2 said:
It doesn't seem that there's been too much uproar from coaches. One article I read back when this blew up had a number of coached quoted anonymously. The coaches all indicated that the same information could easily be obtained and the insinuation was that these coaches were stealing signs as well but by other means. I get it that the letter of the law was broken - no in person scouting. But is the rule there because of some inherent unfairness or advantage to in person scouting? Or is it an artifact from a time when the schools decided that they didn't want to spend the money sending scouts to other games? I suspect its the latter. If it is an old rule and a budgetary thing, it probably goes back to when a half back was running the play in every down. The uproar seems more among the bored fans and the talking heads than among the coaches themselves, the ones who should really feel chapped.
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Really, because as I recall Schiano and a few others who remained anonymous complained about it setting off the whole episode.

Maybe they just don’t like Harbaugh, though. I don’t like him either. He’s a cold soul, maybe somewhere on the sociopathy spectrum. Armchair psychologist.
 




Just remembered Stew and Bruce did a piece and podcast on this back when it was breaking and said they surveyed something like 50 CFB coaches. Something like 4/5th of them said it was a big deal. Varying opinions of effect on game outcomes.

I‘m not sure how the same information would be gleaned via other methods. I don’t think anyone can explain that. Maybe everyone is doing it, sure. The Lance Armstrong explanation.
 


American has never cared about cheating. On the one hand, I'm disgusted - and on the other, I feel like I must be a sucker.
 

Mr. 131 said:
American has never cared about cheating. On the one hand, I'm disgusted - and on the other, I feel like I must be a sucker.
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Some do, some don’t. People create every rationalization conceivable but in many cases the incentives are aligned to cheat.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I‘m not sure how the same information would be gleaned via other methods. I don’t think anyone can explain that.
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It doesn’t matter in the slightest if it actually can be or not.

All the matters is if Harbaugh and the rest of the senior staff simply took Stallions at his (lying) word when he claimed that he obtained the info by using only legitimate methods.


They are not required to question and investigate all things, all times.
Nope
 



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