Is Tubby recruiting at a top half B1G level the last few years?

Donate To GopherHole
E

El Amin Fan

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
2,986
Reaction score
978
Points
113
I'm curious to hear what people think of Tubby's recruiting since the Spring of 2010. In that time period we've signed 9 guys and have two more verbals.

Spring 2010
Maverick Ahanmisi (offers: Loyola, UC-Santa Barbara)
Chip Armelin (offers: La. Tech, North Texas)
Oto Osenieks (offers: Iowa St., Providence)

2011 Class
Joe Coleman (offers: Seton Hall, Iowa St, Creighton)
Andre Hollins (offers: Stanford, Auburn, Harvard)
Andre Ingram (offers: Boise St. North Dakota, Western Illinois)
Julian Welch (offers: UNLV, Kent St.)

2012 Class
Charles Buggs (offers: Arkansas, Clemson, Seton Hall, West Virginia)
Wally Ellenson (offers: Nebraska, Oklahoma State, West Virginia)

2013 Commits
Alvin Ellis (offers: Kansas State, Northwestern and Wichita State)
Daniel Edozie (offers: his JUCO coach said he had no mid high major offers other than us)

Out of this group of 11, there isn't a single guy here that is consensus Top 50 (Hollins was #46 on one list). I think we can all agree that Hollins was a great get and Tubby earned his money with him.

I think we can also agree that Welch is performing beyond his offer list and that was a good addition as well.

Then we have four guys (Coleman, Buggs, Ellenson and Ellis) are all the type of guys that Minnesota/Tubby Smith should be landing every year. They have very good (but not spectacular offer lists) and are all guys that if they develop as they should, will be guys you can build around.

Then we have four guys that don't belong on a B1G roster (Edozie we don't know about yet obviously, but we're the only high or mid major that thinks he is worthy of a scholarship to date, so based on comparisons of offers, he at least looks like a reach). Chip is gone. Mav is in over his head. Ingram played well in the NIT so maybe there is something to work with, but you don't sign JUCOs to be back-ups in NIT runs.

Oto could be grouped with one of the two last groups depending on how he progresses.

So there we have it. The last 11 guys not one of them has a blue-blood offer, four of them have comparable if not a tad better offers than our historical program. That's not going to cut it and it feels like we are trending downward with recruiting the last 2.5 years.
 

I'm a big Tubby backer, but the recruiting so far for 2013 has been really questionable. With Tubby I was hoping we would be recruiting big names against big schools.
 

I'll just say it is on a downward trend...........and I'm not a Tubby backer.
 

I'm also not a Tubby apologist. But most of our recruits are on par with we are at as a program, minus the "Tubby" name. It's obvious that Tubby's name alone will not help him recruit agains Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, etc... But if you look at the players we've recruited most of them have offers from programs that are comparable to MN. We also remember Walker, Austin Hollins, and Eliason were 2010 and a good prospect coming out of HS. Mav and Chip were obviously reaches and I have no clue who this Edozie kid is. I think 2011 is going to be an underrated class. Both Elenson and Buggs had solid offers. Buggs stock was rising when we got him. I think if he waited until the spring he would've had a better offer then MN. If Walker,Hollins, Eliason and Osnieks work out, which they have the potential too, 2010 will be a productive class (tho I still would've liked them to offer Jett and Noreen). I think most would agree that Andre Hollins and Joe Coleman were good gets. Andre will be our go-to player after this year and Coleman will contribute. Welch and Ingram are definitely role players but they don't don't hurt the team. This year I think we're 1 for 2. Ellis also had solid offers. played for one of the top EYBL programs in the country and out of the players that Tubby brought in form DeLaSalle, Ellis was his top priority. If we can get 1 more solid top 100 players (hopefully Hayes) we'll be in good shape going into a crucial recruiting year in 2014. I think we, including myself put too much stock int the Tubby name instead of where MN is as an attractive school for top 50 players. IMO what's really hurting the program is the fact is that we haven't had any legit local players in the top 50 since 2009 and won't have any until 2014.
 

I agree that recruiting is trending downward. I think that if you expect Minnesota to sign guys with blue blood offers, regardless of who our coach is, you're not being realistic. The only guys with blue blood offers that Minnesota is realistically able to sign are in-state players, and it's not Tubby's fault that there haven't been players of that caliber available to him. The best/most-sought after MN HS prospect in many years was Royce White, and his best offer was MSU, and Tubby signed him.

His 2012 recruiting was curious. His 2013 recruiting has been questionable at best.
 


Parski1 said:
I'm a big Tubby backer, but the recruiting so far for 2013 has been really questionable. With Tubby I was hoping we would be recruiting big names against big schools.
Click to expand...

I am a Tubby backer also but I have no problem with this guy. My reason, I think basketball players have had very similar talent level for the past few years (except the ones that get recruited by big schools by cheating or no cheating). As we have seen teams like Butler or VCU or the team that knocked out Duke in the 1st round last year. I am not sure how many of the kids in those teams were recruited by big schools??? We had the hardest time to beat MTSU in NIT last year. They are about to make the NCAA this year. They are loaded by the players that nobody wanted but are willing to work their tails off. Those are the type of the players that I want in my team.

The reason that we see many of the so called fans here crying is because they were waiting for the excuse. They got one. they will get more if the Gophers give away any games. End of the world is near for these people. I trust Tubby and know that this kid will shock many like DJ did in his last 2 years of school.

I would love to have more talented players in my team. Until we started winning, we won't be able to get those players. Keep supporting the team and hope that this year would be the turning point.

Go Gophers
 

dpodoll68 said:
His 2013 recruiting has been questionable at best.
Click to expand...

We've had a lot of good players in and we are still on may of their top 3-4 list so it could still turn out well. Ellis should be a good get & Edozie is flat out strange.
 

The 2010 class was just an overall reach, i'd say that is pretty agreeable. I believe we will truly know where Tubby and his staff are in regard to recruiting once the 2014 and 2015 classes come about. Of course no one enjoys waiting, and many do not want to give Tubby a break and wait any longer. Personally, I would like to see Woodward offered if, and potentially when we do not get one of the other PF's. And players like Jarvis Johnson in the 2015 class out of De La Salle needs a damn offer as well. I get the Juco route, but at some point we need to consistently bring in solid HS talent, thus building each class and the team's depth.
 

Tubby takes the best players who are willing to come to MN?

I am disappointed that we cannot get more four star recruits to come to MN? I hope Tubby is personally involved in the three MN players for 2014.

The reality is that Tubby will have a very competitive team this year and will be able to offer scholarships and playing time to those local recruits to encourage them to sign for 2014. He definitely isn't scaring off our 2014 recruits with Endozie.

We need a better year on the court to begin getting more big time recruits. I would worry more about getting to the NCAA tourney and winning a couple of them.

Endozie has the body and we have 13 positions. We need role players who can give fouls in the physical Big 10. He will replace our current Junior College big man. Remember we needed him last year in the NIT.

If a better recruit was willing to come here Tubby wouldn't slam the door on them. I really hope the practice facility blue prints are being shared with recruits as a new facility will really help.
 



Tubby started out fast and faded fast as a recruiter. Not working Jarvis Johnson like Iowa ST.Sacar Anim 2015 was Iowa Guest last Saturday. Tubby has no skin in the game with him yet, Coffey has offer from Iowa ST Nothing from Tubby. Tubby is too old school in his recruiting and too many in state kids are getting more love from other programs.
 

Hoiberg is all over these guys. Tubby is a good man and other things ARE more important than basketball. But not if you a D1 basketball coach! 2014 class will be the test. If we don't get two of the big three I would say it's been real, let's get a young coach in here.
 

The answer is no. The better question is why has Tubby's recruiting fell off since his first 2 classes at Minnesota? Devoe, Ralph, and Colton in his first class and Trevor, Rodney, Royce, and Justin Cobbs in year 2 (and some were disappointed with the Cobbs offer/commitment). From that point on we haven't landed a "wow" recruit and have brought in a few head scratchers. It's certainly Tubby's program now, so he's responsible for the "level" Minnesota is allegedly at. We are losing Trevor and Rodney after this year and really need to add an elite recruit for the first time in a few classes.

The Andre Hollins recruitment was helped tremendously by Chasson Randle committing to Stanford and Hollins then choosing between Minnesota and Auburn.

If you look at the Rivals 150 for 2013, you find the following schools with commitments: UNLV, Georgia Tech, LSU, South Carolina, Iowa State, Purdue, Alabama, Harvard, BYU, Seton Hall, South Florida, Texas A&M, Vanderbilt, California, USC, Rhode Island, NC State, Miami (FL), and Washington State with top 100 commitments. Outside the top 100, but still in the top 150 with commitments are: Virginia Tech, San Diego State, Colorado, Dayton, DePaul, Northwestern, Oregon, West Virginia, Temple, Butler, Fresno State, Georgia, Penn State, VCU, St. Mary's, TCU, Florida International, and UCF.

Hopefully things turn around, but I could make a similar list for 2012 of schools that Tubby should be competitive with that are landing kids where Tubby is not.
 

EG#9 said:
The answer is no. The better question is why has Tubby's recruiting fell off since his first 2 classes at Minnesota? Devoe, Ralph, and Colton in his first class and Trevor, Rodney, Royce, and Justin Cobbs in year 2 (and some were disappointed with the Cobbs offer/commitment). From that point on we haven't landed a "wow" recruit and have brought in a few head scratchers. It's certainly Tubby's program now, so he's responsible for the "level" Minnesota is allegedly at. We are losing Trevor and Rodney after this year and really need to add an elite recruit for the first time in a few classes.

The Andre Hollins recruitment was helped tremendously by Chasson Randle committing to Stanford and Hollins then choosing between Minnesota and Auburn.

If you look at the Rivals 150 for 2013, you find the following schools with commitments: UNLV, Georgia Tech, LSU, South Carolina, Iowa State, Purdue, Alabama, Harvard, BYU, Seton Hall, South Florida, Texas A&M, Vanderbilt, California, USC, Rhode Island, NC State, Miami (FL), and Washington State with top 100 commitments. Outside the top 100, but still in the top 150 with commitments are: Virginia Tech, San Diego State, Colorado, Dayton, DePaul, Northwestern, Oregon, West Virginia, Temple, Butler, Fresno State, Georgia, Penn State, VCU, St. Mary's, TCU, Florida International, and UCF.

Hopefully things turn around, but I could make a similar list for 2012 of schools that Tubby should be competitive with that are landing kids where Tubby is not.
Click to expand...
Excellent post!
 



dpodoll68 said:
I agree that recruiting is trending downward. I think that if you expect Minnesota to sign guys with blue blood offers, regardless of who our coach is, you're not being realistic. The only guys with blue blood offers that Minnesota is realistically able to sign are in-state players, and it's not Tubby's fault that there haven't been players of that caliber available to him. The best/most-sought after MN HS prospect in many years was Royce White, and his best offer was MSU, and Tubby signed him.

His 2012 recruiting was curious. His 2013 recruiting has been questionable at best.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. He's done the worst job recruiting these last two years. The real test will be 2014.
 


EG#9 said:
The Andre Hollins recruitment was helped tremendously by Chasson Randle committing to Stanford and Hollins then choosing between Minnesota and Auburn.
Click to expand...

Hard to know what would have happened, but I was worried about Andre going to Stanford, great relief when Randle committed.
 

Big Ten Championship said:
The reality is that Tubby will have a very competitive team this year and will be able to offer scholarships and playing time to those local recruits to encourage them to sign for 2014. He definitely isn't scaring off our 2014 recruits with Endozie.
Click to expand...

We have some wide open playing time for Alex foster, Gavin Schilling or Nigel Hayes next year. Trying to keep positive like BTC --the signing of Endozie makes them aware there are 3+ offers still out there and they better commit to the gophers if the want the last PF spot.

Retweets in the last two hours-

Aromdee Erickson ‏@Nigel2MN
@NIGEL_HAYES Sure! PG- Andre Hollins, SG- Rashad Vaughn, SF- Reid Travis, PF-Nigel Hayes, C-Elliot Eliason... #deadly #realistic
Retweeted by NIGEL HAYES
View conversation Reply Retweet Favorite
1h Jeff Goudy ‏@stouds20
@NIGEL_HAYES sure can. Tyus Jones, Andre hollins, rashad Vaughn, Nigel Hayes and the rest doesn't matter #gophers
Retweeted by NIGEL HAYES
 

9194Gophs said:
We have some wide open playing time for Alex foster, Gavin Schilling or Nigel Hayes next year. Trying to keep positive like BTC --the signing of Endozie makes them aware there are 3+ offers still out there and they better commit to the gophers if the want the last PF spot.

Retweets in the last two hours-

Aromdee Erickson ‏@Nigel2MN
@NIGEL_HAYES Sure! PG- Andre Hollins, SG- Rashad Vaughn, SF- Reid Travis, PF-Nigel Hayes, C-Elliot Eliason... #deadly #realistic
Retweeted by NIGEL HAYES
View conversation Reply Retweet Favorite
1h Jeff Goudy ‏@stouds20
@NIGEL_HAYES sure can. Tyus Jones, Andre hollins, rashad Vaughn, Nigel Hayes and the rest doesn't matter #gophers
Retweeted by NIGEL HAYES
Click to expand...

Sign Nigel and I'll be happy with the way the 2013 class is looking.

I'd take Woodward too.
 

I try not to judge coaches based on the number of stars their recruits have, and rather on their record. I expect Tubby to find players who he is able to convince to come here, who fit his system (or play a style he is willing and able to fit his system and current personnel to), and who will be a contributor on the court, in the locker room, and outside of basketball within Tubby's system. If he lands a bunch of four and five star recruits but continues to fail to win a tournament game, I am not going to say "hey, at least he's bringing in good players." The flip side is also true. If he takes a team with players that did not have a single offer from another college on a run to the Sweet Sixteen, I'm not going to say "the wins are nice, but I really wish he could find some more high profile recruits." The win-loss column and tournament banners should be the metric that a coach is measured against, especially once they have had 4 years to graduate the players they did not pick.
 

I've always wondered, what is our system? Under the radar recruits are fine. But it would be nice if they were productive players before we signed them. I would prefer Woodward over this guy. A three point shooter would be a good compliment to the big three we sign next year.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I try not to judge coaches based on the number of stars their recruits have, and rather on their record. I expect Tubby to find players who he is able to convince to come here, who fit his system (or play a style he is willing and able to fit his system and current personnel to), and who will be a contributor on the court, in the locker room, and outside of basketball within Tubby's system. If he lands a bunch of four and five star recruits but continues to fail to win a tournament game, I am not going to say "hey, at least he's bringing in good players." The flip side is also true. If he takes a team with players that did not have a single offer from another college on a run to the Sweet Sixteen, I'm not going to say "the wins are nice, but I really wish he could find some more high profile recruits." The win-loss column and tournament banners should be the metric that a coach is measured against, especially once they have had 4 years to graduate the players they did not pick.
Click to expand...

Tubby Smith at Minnesota

Big Ten record: 38-49

Record in NCAA Tournament: 0-2

Years with conference record above 500: 0
 

station19 said:
Tubby Smith at Minnesota

Big Ten record: 38-49

Record in NCAA Tournament: 0-2

Years with conference record above 500: 0
Click to expand...

I wasn't saying I was pleased. I was just saying that recruiting is not the source of my frustration.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I wasn't saying I was pleased. I was just saying that recruiting is not the source of my frustration.
Click to expand...

I wasn't trying to imply anything on your part. Just putting out the facts. Add the recent recruiting to the facts and it is not a pretty picture.
 

station19 said:
Tubby Smith at Minnesota

Big Ten record: 38-49

Record in NCAA Tournament: 0-2

Years with conference record above 500: 0
Click to expand...

Lets just face it. When Tubby was hired the expectations were extraordinarily high. Were they to high? Most likely. However, the results since dont even meet "normal" expectations. Hopefully, the gophs can have a great year and reverse a trend but i am afraid it will be to little to late. MN is sitting on the chance of a lifetime with Vaughn and Jones and the opportunity to get these guys needed to be created 3-4 years ago with a program that had turned a corner. Didnt happen. Now, we are all angry because of the level of recruits we are getting. Well, you get what you earn. This is the new normal which really doesnt feel any different then when monson was here. We are who we are. Plain and simple.
 

Biglew33 said:
Lets just face it. When Tubby was hired the expectations were extraordinarily high. Were they to high? Most likely. However, the results since dont even meet "normal" expectations. Hopefully, the gophs can have a great year and reverse a trend but i am afraid it will be to little to late. MN is sitting on the chance of a lifetime with Vaughn and Jones and the opportunity to get these guys needed to be created 3-4 years ago with a program that had turned a corner. Didnt happen. Now, we are all angry because of the level of recruits we are getting. Well, you get what you earn. This is the new normal which really doesnt feel any different then when monson was here. We are who we are. Plain and simple.
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree. If you get a young energetic recruiter in here, it doesn't have to be "we are who we are". This is an annuity for Tubby and a well paying job for Saul; Tubby doesn't have the fire to recruit anymore, IMHO. The latest offer appears to be settling for Plan E or F because the top 4 priorities won't show him the light of day. I would love nothing more than for Tubby (who is an overall good game coach) to get a recruiting dynamo in here to sell the program. Tubby appears to be too much of a micro-manager for this to ever happen
 

jamalo said:
I respectfully disagree. If you get a young energetic recruiter in here, it doesn't have to be "we are who we are". This is an annuity for Tubby and a well paying job for Saul; Tubby doesn't have the fire to recruit anymore, IMHO. The latest offer appears to be settling for Plan E or F because the top 4 priorities won't show him the light of day. I would love nothing more than for Tubby (who is an overall good game coach) to get a recruiting dynamo in here to sell the program. Tubby appears to be too much of a micro-manager for this to ever happen
Click to expand...

I am not really sure how this is disagreeing with my statement. You mentioned things that need(ed) to happen and they havent and there are really no indications that they will.
 

Of course our recruiting hasn't been top 1/2 of the B1G lately, that's self evident. Not coincidentally our wins/losses haven't been top 1/2 of the B1G either. We haven't won enough lately to attract top talent, simple.

I've stuck with Tubby since the hire & think he's had some very bad luck losing White, Mbakwe, Devoe & most importantly Nolen. I've been saying for 2 years that he's lining us up to be very good next year & perhaps better yet the following year when Dre Hollins is an upperclassman & the leader of the team? I expect to win a lot of games this year & next. If we don't, or if recruiting doesn't follow the wins I'll be ready for a change.
 

Biglew33 said:
I am not really sure how this is disagreeing with my statement. You mentioned things that need(ed) to happen and they havent and there are really no indications that they will.
Click to expand...

Maybe, but if we are going to be above-average dollars for a coach, then the recruiting effort (and assistants that are able to facilitate towards that end) should be a prerequisite. Totally agree that it is no different than when Monson was here, but that is the exact issue in a microchasm. I can't imagine that the prior adminstration thought they were getting a better game coach version of Monson all over again with the dollars that they paid. Teague didn't have a lot of choice in terms of extending Tubby, but the increased buy-out is an issue. There is never a good time to change a coach, but with the recent recruiting efforts, perhaps we should have taken our lumps now rather than 2 years from now if we miss out on the local guys.
 

Some here have stated that the U's football program is weak because we haven't hired a nationally recognized coach. Well, in basketball we have such a coach and the recruiting is, by admission of some of the same posters here, weak. So maybe we ought to be asking why we are unable to attract top talent to UM in basketball and football. What do we have or not have that keeps the top talent away? Do we ask recruits that we are unable to persuade to come here why they chose not to? Do we ask coaches who decline our offers why they decline them? If we discover what it is that makes recruiting here difficult, is there anything that can be done about it?
 

FanSinceTheFifties said:
Some here have stated that the U's football program is weak because we haven't hired a nationally recognized coach. Well, in basketball we have such a coach and the recruiting is, by admission of some of the same posters here, weak. So maybe we ought to be asking why we are unable to attract top talent to UM in basketball and football. What do we have or not have that keeps the top talent away? Do we ask recruits that we are unable to persuade to come here why they chose not to? Do we ask coaches who decline our offers why they decline them? If we discover what it is that makes recruiting here difficult, is there anything that can be done about it?
Click to expand...


Fire Tubby. That would solve all the problems. At least for some people.

I have said this before and some people didn't like it. It is the location. West Lafayette is the worst college town in America but it is a college town. MSP does not have that feel.
Go Gophers

Go Gophers
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom