Is this team well coached?

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

Tubby's coaching = Elliot's dancing

Both a major embarrassment!

Am I the only one that didn't have a problem with the Goose's dancing?

 

[Parski1]

Am I the only one that didn't have a problem with the Goose's dancing?

No - it was a classic!

 

[scher215]

I'm going to go cross grain here and just say that it depends on how good you think this talent is. We have some unique and talented players, but I'm not sure any of them will be first round NBA picks. I don't know how many even play in the NBA. I believe Trevor will, but it's hard to imagine Rodney making a roster. Austin has a chance. Dre is a good college player, but I'm not sure about the big leagues.

Maybe Tubby has indeed done a decent job with this group, especially considering the complete lack of a bench. Maybe he got them playing so far over their heads early, which makes this coming down to earth so big of a thud.

Of course, none of the above explains the specific on-the-court difficulties that we see with our own eyes - the inability to handle certain defenses and make adjustments, the lack of motion and seeming lack of concept on offense, the stubborn adherence to an obsolete defensive system that nobody else in the world still uses, and in a larger sense the seeming inability to get players to understand and execute the schemes and game plans.

And, of course, there's the matter of scouting and procuring the starting players and the bench in the first place. Recruiting is part of the job.

The NBA drafts on potential in regards to Rodney. He will get picked and be on an opening day roster. There is a GM out there right now with a coach convinced they can turn him to a star. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, that didn't happen here.

Trevor will get picked as a solid 10-15 minute a night guy who will grab boards and play hard and with energy.

Austin I'm not so sure about, needs to get a lot stronger or learn to play the point. He'd be eaten alive in the NBA, although I think he gets a shot just because of his positives as a player.

Andre I think will too. He'd be a solid scoring spark off the bench for an NBA team. I don't know that he will be a superstar, but could carve out a pretty good career.

 

[scher215]

Although I'm with you to a certain extent, this team has less NBA talent than the other Gopher teams that have made splashes in the NCAA tournament. My observation has always been that that's the best predictor of post-season success: how many players do you have who end up playing a game in the NBA? A crude but true measurement. It's impossible to say until after the fact, but I would guess this team has 2. The '89, '90 and '97 teams had lots more.

I will say that having NBA players on your roster in 89 and 90 meant more than it does now in the big 10. Now most big 10 teams have at minimum 3 potential NBA players on the roster. The conference is very good. Indiana has 3 potential first round picks starting (Zeller, Oladipo, Wattford) Michigan has Hardaway, Burke, Robinson, possibly McGary. The big 10 is a very very good conference.

 

[underground629]

I think you missed the point on that one. Obviously no team plays flawlessly. Those teams typically make far fewer boneheaded mistakes. I don't think there's any disputing that. It would help if we ran a real offense.

I don't think we can say Wisconsin doesn't make boneheaded mistakes when Bruisers boneheaded mistake helped us win that game.

 

[principalguy]

The NBA drafts on potential in regards to Rodney. He will get picked and be on an opening day roster. There is a GM out there right now with a coach convinced they can turn him to a star. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, that didn't happen here.

Trevor will get picked as a solid 10-15 minute a night guy who will grab boards and play hard and with energy.

Austin I'm not so sure about, needs to get a lot stronger or learn to play the point. He'd be eaten alive in the NBA, although I think he gets a shot just because of his positives as a player.

Andre I think will too. He'd be a solid scoring spark off the bench for an NBA team. I don't know that he will be a superstar, but could carve out a pretty good career.

I'm not sure we're evaluating the same players. At the NBA level, Mbakwe has a chance at occupying a roster space. Rodney will be a D-League player for a few minutes and then will be overseas. Austin would have to get ALOT better. Weird shot, low handle, better be an unbelievable player to get a sniff. Dre Hollins can not pass or dribble. He would ge used badly at this point.

NBA players have to play offense in short spans, get their shots, create space, and knock down shots...all the while being rangy. None of these players are rangy by NBA standards, in fact, all of them are extremely short by NBA standards. If you can't shine against Wiscy, Iowegians and Norwesters, how do you project that to NBA success?

Having said all of this, each of these players arrived as NBA hopefuls, along with Ralph III and Colton. Which of Tubby's players that you can review in the last 15 years has looked like more of an NBA prospect when they were done playing for him than they did when they started playing for him?

The answer is disheartening at best. Tubby's program is sunk! Move on...quickly. I'm getting a Monson-esque feel to the end. And, it's real.

 

[WILLBGOPHER]

With the advent of the three point shot as an integral part of today's game, Tubby has proven that he can't recruit the type of player that would be successful in today's game, therefore Tubby cannot coach. The game has simply passed him by.

I really think this is a key point. He just hasn't put enough emphasis on shooters and the 3 point shot (see the players on the roster that can't shoot). It's such an important part of todays game. I feel bad for TM, NO space to operate when you have 2 lane cloggers starting with you - coleman and Rodney. Then teams switch to a zone and TM has almost no chance to get the ball down low.

How do you spread the floor and create driving lanes when you only have 2 shooters on the floor (the entire roster for that matter)?

 

[Deleted_User]

Although I'm with you to a certain extent, this team has less NBA talent than the other Gopher teams that have made splashes in the NCAA tournament. My observation has always been that that's the best predictor of post-season success: how many players do you have who end up playing a game in the NBA? A crude but true measurement. It's impossible to say until after the fact, but I would guess this team has 2. The '89, '90 and '97 teams had lots more.

100%

 

[bballjunkie]

There are three things a coach needs to be able to accomplish to be successful at the U of MN. 1) Recruit quality players, 2) teach the players to grow as players, 3) win in the B1G. Tubby has shown to be at best an OK recruiter. He gets some quality players but we always lack that great 3 point shooter. As far as players growing as players while they are at the U, I see regression in the talent for the most part. We have not had an assistant who can teach the post players in a very long time. All the post players get worse while they are her. While we all know what our B1G record is while Tubby has been here and it is unacceptable in my opinion.

 

[UST82Gopher]

I really think this is a key point. He just hasn't put enough emphasis on shooters and the 3 point shot (see the players on the roster that can't shoot). It's such an important part of today's game. I feel bad for TM, NO space to operate when you have 2 lane cloggers starting with you - Coleman and Rodney. Then teams switch to a zone and TM has almost no chance to get the ball down low.

This is such a huge part of the equation. The basic concept that Tubby was using against the zone (feed high post to collapse the zone) works perfectly if

1 - you have a low post player who can get position and finish (we do in Trevor)
2 - you have wing players who can move into space and hit 3's (we do not)

Unfortunately, our current personnel does not allow us to execute the the basic zone offense successfully as we have 1) no consistency in shooting 3's and 2) players who don't even look to shoot it (Coleman)

So, there are 2 options. In the near term, one option is to develop an alternate zone offense that better utilizes our existing personnel. In my book, the best alternative might be to swing the ball quicker than use our quickness and try to dribble penetrate the zone for mid range shots (and more opportunities for offensive rebounds as we would have 2 (or 3) people within 15 ft of the basket)

In the long term, the other option is to modify our recruiting standards to more highly value certain skills (3 point shooting) over others.

I have to say, Tubby has to take the blame as he has failed to implement either option over the last few years. He has failed to devise a new zone offense scheme that better uses the existing talent that he has. The lack of time outs in the 1st half were a damning statement - Tubby just had nothing in tactics or strategy to offers his team. The team knew it, and responded accordingly by trying to do too much on their own - what I believe to be the root cause of the turnovers all season. (Ineffective schemes that put players in the position of having to create something on their own)

And, after struggling with zones the last several years, Tubby has failed to adjust his recruiting strategy to obtain players with better 3 point shooting skills. Hoffarber was the last player to consistently hit the 3's - and if I remember correctly - was a Monson recruit.

 

[scher215]

This is such a huge part of the equation. The basic concept that Tubby was using against the zone (feed high post to collapse the zone) works perfectly if

1 - you have a low post player who can get position and finish (we do in Trevor)
2 - you have wing players who can move into space and hit 3's (we do not)

Unfortunately, our current personnel does not allow us to execute the the basic zone offense successfully as we have 1) no consistency in shooting 3's and 2) players who don't even look to shoot it (Coleman)

So, there are 2 options. In the near term, one option is to develop an alternate zone offense that better utilizes our existing personnel. In my book, the best alternative might be to swing the ball quicker than use our quickness and try to dribble penetrate the zone for mid range shots (and more opportunities for offensive rebounds as we would have 2 (or 3) people within 15 ft of the basket)

In the long term, the other option is to modify our recruiting standards to more highly value certain skills (3 point shooting) over others.

I have to say, Tubby has to take the blame as he has failed to implement either option over the last few years. He has failed to devise a new zone offense scheme that better uses the existing talent that he has. The lack of time outs in the 1st half were a damning statement - Tubby just had nothing in tactics or strategy to offers his team. The team knew it, and responded accordingly by trying to do too much on their own - what I believe to be the root cause of the turnovers all season. (Ineffective schemes that put players in the position of having to create something on their own)

And, after struggling with zones the last several years, Tubby has failed to adjust his recruiting strategy to obtain players with better 3 point shooting skills. Hoffarber was the last player to consistently hit the 3's - and if I remember correctly - was a Monson recruit.

Well said.

I will add we don't need 5 Hoffarber's. We don't need 5 elite shooters.

Just guys who can force the defense to respect the 3 and can hit it when open. Joe and Rodney can do neither. Rodney does make up for it somewhat by being a very good defender, especially on the perimeter. Joe I am confident will put in the work to get there, seems like a hard working guy.

Need the whole team to work on that this off season though.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Well said.

I will add we don't need 5 Hoffarber's. We don't need 5 elite shooters.

Just guys who can force the defense to respect the 3 and can hit it when open. Joe and Rodney can do neither. Rodney does make up for it somewhat by being a very good defender, especially on the perimeter. Joe I am confident will put in the work to get there, seems like a hard working guy.

Need the whole team to work on that this off season though.

This team made a postseason run last year and got off to a strong start this year partially on the strength of Rodney making jump shots and free throws. Now that he's re-lost his jump shot, the team loses a crucial dimension. It wouldn't be so bad if Coleman could consistently make a jump shot, but he can't. I've used this Angry Birds analogy before: we're about a bird short.

 

[mnsports1]

When the Tubby Bashers tone down their Tubby Bashing, then I'll offer up my honest heart felt opinions about Tubby's coaching prowess or lack of it.
Until that day, I'll keep trying to bring some balance to the discussion. Until the final tick tock of the clock in our final game of the season, hopefully in the Elite 8?! lol, yeah, still dreaming. Simply don't want to wake up guys. I closed my eyes and dreamed on through some rough patches in 1989 and 1990 as well, and was able to wake up with a smile on my face.


Not so sure that is going to happen this year, but like I've been saying over and over again, FULLY FIVE Big Ten teams are ranked AHEAD of us, and in the Top 13 of the Sagarin Ratings, probably the most accurate and respected rating system out there. We are the 6th Big Ten team in the Top 15.

Illinois and Iowa make up teams #7 and #8 in the Top 40, and well, probably the Top 35 now.

Never in my life have I seen the Big Ten so strong, top to bottom.


And good teams have an uncanny ability to make their opponents look worse than they are, and BAD teams have the uncanny ability of making their opponents look better than they are.

should we be holding our breath?

 

[panolo]

They did run a nice out of bounds play today that resulted in a layup. That might have been the only positive.

This was my post. That play was perfect and some of the others made sense and looked good but that last 30 minutes of ball was utterly terrible. Whether it was players not doing as coached or them not being coached I'm not really sure.

 

[UST82Gopher]

Well said.

I will add we don't need 5 Hoffarber's. We don't need 5 elite shooters.

Just guys who can force the defense to respect the 3 and can hit it when open. Joe and Rodney can do neither. Rodney does make up for it somewhat by being a very good defender, especially on the perimeter. Joe I am confident will put in the work to get there, seems like a hard working guy.

Need the whole team to work on that this off season though.

I agree completely - we only need a couple of strong 3 point shooters somewhere on the 15 man roster plus a couple more who can make a few here and there.

 

[station19]

When the Tubby Bashers tone down their Tubby Bashing, then I'll offer up my honest heart felt opinions about Tubby's coaching prowess or lack of it.

Until that day, I'll keep trying to bring some balance to the discussion. Until the final tick tock of the clock in our final game of the season, hopefully in the Elite 8?! lol, yeah, still dreaming. Simply don't want to wake up guys. I closed my eyes and dreamed on through some rough patches in 1989 and 1990 as well, and was able to wake up with a smile on my face.


Not so sure that is going to happen this year, but like I've been saying over and over again, FULLY FIVE Big Ten teams are ranked AHEAD of us, and in the Top 13 of the Sagarin Ratings, probably the most accurate and respected rating system out there. We are the 6th Big Ten team in the Top 15.

Illinois and Iowa make up teams #7 and #8 in the Top 40, and well, probably the Top 35 now.

Never in my life have I seen the Big Ten so strong, top to bottom.


And good teams have an uncanny ability to make their opponents look worse than they are, and BAD teams have the uncanny ability of making their opponents look better than they are.

Oh I can hardly wait until the day you grace us with your infinite wisdom.