is this another isolated defection or is it on tubby?

is this another isolated defection or is it on tubby?

  • just an isolated transfer, nothing to worry about

    Votes: 35 43.2%

  • this is out of control, tubby is doing something wrong

    Votes: 46 56.8%
  • Total voters
    81
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is this another isolated defection or is it on tubby?
 


what are talking about? what defection?
Not Devoe, he flunked out. It was transfer or be DQ'd and gone. Also failed drug tests. Any student would be gone.
 


idagopher said:
what are talking about? what defection?
Not Devoe, he flunked out. It was transfer or be DQ'd and gone. Also failed drug tests. Any student would be gone.
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also, D-bag devoe's transfer was tubby related. It had nothing to do with a DQ or drug tests. It was solely a tubby related issue. You would be surprised to learn lots and lots of college players fail drug tests (and its never even been released that was the "issue"). learn.

follow up, tubby's style effects a lot of players. Tubby is harsh, critical and getting very old/cranky very fast. He can not keep up anymore and is an old cranky man who pisses off players. this is going poorly quickly. watch.
 


Glove371 said:
also, D-bag devoe's transfer was tubby related. It had nothing to do with a DQ or drug tests. It was solely a tubby related issue. You would be surprised to learn lots and lots of college players fail drug tests (and its never even been released that was the "issue"). learn.

follow up, tubby's style effects a lot of players. Tubby is harsh, critical and getting very old/cranky very fast. He can not keep up anymore and is an old cranky man who pisses off players. this is going poorly quickly. watch.
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he's not in touch with these kids at all.
 

Not sure we have enough information to know.

I am not the only one who noticed that Tubby's leash has been far shorter on Colton than it has been on Ralph since they arrived on campus.

I think it is entirely possible that Tubby had made it clear that Colton was his no.3 or no.4 center next year behind Ralph, Mo, and Elliott and Colton read the writing on the wall.
 

A player has some personal responsibility for his own development. Coulton's transfer was in recognition that his minutes would be limited next year. The decision will be of mutual benefit to all concerned.
 

figi said:
A player has some personal responsibility for his own development. Coulton's transfer was in recognition that his minutes would be limited next year. The decision will be of mutual benefit to all concerned.
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I agree. At first I had kind of a visceral reaction to this, thinking Tubby just lost another kid, but I really thin Mo especially and Eliason to some extent would have eaten into his minutes next year more so than Ralph's.
 



I know its Tubby bashing time again...but I just can't understand why when a player doesn't develop a 10 foot jump shot after 3 years of college basketball that it is somehow on the head coach.

Colton became a liability with Mbakwe on the floor because Trevor was a better scorer and rebounder in the low post and Colt couldn't play the high post because he had no shot. RSIII, Mo and EE(if reports are accurate) all have a 10 foot shot with RSIII having range to 15 feet. The ability to shoot in the high post takes pressure off the low post and opens up the middle...also forces the double to come from the wing and gets our supposed shooters open.

If Mbakwe comes back...Colt is going to be playing behind 2 RSFr at center and two Srs at PF...it Mbakwe doesn't come back...he is still the fourth guy on the list...and if we go with a 3 guard line up...which I expect a bunch...he is not going to play.
 

BarnBurner said:
Not winning. Losing players. Not developing players.


That pretty much sums it up.
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There ya go blame Tubby!! It's ALWAYS Tubby's fault. I guess Tubby caused all the injuries too...no wait Tubby decided he didn't want a point guard this year...no wait our last snowstorm....Tubby!
 

GopherinPhilly said:
If Mbakwe comes back...Colt is going to be playing behind 2 RSFr at center and two Srs at PF...it Mbakwe doesn't come back...he is still the fourth guy on the list...
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Two redshirt freshman? We'll have just one in Elliot Eliason, who Colton would have been ahead of on the depth chart. Nonetheless, the minutes would again not be good for Iverson.

Transfers happen in college basketball a lot more than some realize.
 

He was not going to improve sitting on the bench, I hope he does well wherever he goes, he's a good kid.
 



I agree with many posters. Colton saw his minutes diminishing further and will try to find someplace where he can play major minutes and give himself a chance to be seen. I suspect he will land at a mid-major and I hope he can be very helpful to them. I like Colton and I kept waiting for him to be the dominate player we all hoped for and that at times he hinted he could be. Good Luck, Colton.

As an added note, he may have decided that the Big Ten officials had labeled him as a "foul-er". So if you need to blame someone, think of stripes.
 

CollegeBBallFan said:
I agree with many posters. Colton saw his minutes diminishing further and will try to find someplace where he can play major minutes and give himself a chance to be seen. I suspect he will land at a mid-major and I hope he can be very helpful to them. I like Colton and I kept waiting for him to be the dominate player we all hoped for and that at times he hinted he could be. Good Luck, Colton.

As an added note, he may have decided that the Big Ten officials had labeled him as a "foul-er". So if you need to blame someone, think of stripes.
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really????

Blame the officials for a transfer? Wow, has this gotten out of hand. Tubby bears no blame anywhere?


When CI came to the U, the fans here said it would be 4 years of twin towers, etc. Praise all around for the kid.

Now, 3 years later, after some flashes of great play from the kid, all of a sudden he is not good enough to play his senior year?

If that is the case, then where has the coaching and development been?

CI is certainly better than good enough to play on MN next year. You are fooling yourself if you think otherwise.


What part does ots and his staff play in this this?
 

CollegeBBallFan said:
I agree with many posters. Colton saw his minutes diminishing further and will try to find someplace where he can play major minutes and give himself a chance to be seen. I suspect he will land at a mid-major and I hope he can be very helpful to them. I like Colton and I kept waiting for him to be the dominate player we all hoped for and that at times he hinted he could be. Good Luck, Colton.

As an added note, he may have decided that the Big Ten officials had labeled him as a "foul-er". So if you need to blame someone, think of stripes.
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Agree...Colton's minutes were diminishing this year. What would happen next year with the depth the Gophers have? He would get buried and he new it.
 

In the transfer, I see Colton was having a hard time with Eliason in practice. He probably saw the writing on the wall that he would be behind both Walker & Eliason next year.
 

Ski U Mah Gopher said:
In the transfer, I see Colton was having a hard time with Eliason in practice. He probably saw the writing on the wall that he would be behind both Walker & Eliason next year.
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I'm not sure I get the Eliason line of thinking. Mo is good with better hands and offensive skills, but Elliot is one of the skinniest kids I have seen on a Gopher bench since David Washington. I would have a hard time believing Colt could not handle him inside, based on size and strength. If people are believing his style of play (making a 10-12 foot jumper?) is a better fit for the team, okay, but I just have a hard time thinking Elliot could compete, at least now, with Colt's strength.

Does anyone really know anything about Elliot other than he is a fantastic student, tall, and redshirted this year?
 


Each player leaving on its own can be explained away, but a whole group of them leaving in a short time period indicates a problem with the program.
 

he'll probably end up at Iowa State and end up behind Royce.

Per Tubby on his show, Devoe leaving while he was 'academically unqualified' hurt the academic NCAA score for the team, means he was flunking out.
 

idagopher said:
he'll probably end up at Iowa State and end up behind Royce.

Per Tubby on his show, Devoe leaving while he was 'academically unqualified' hurt the academic NCAA score for the team, means he was flunking out.
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Wait ... I thought Devoe hated Tubby and that was the sole reason he left?
 

Iverson played with the freshman guards for the most part. I'm not sure if it was the offense or the players, but he never ever got touches down low. Last year he got them.
 

Being an Outside Observer here in KY. I watched us go through this when Pitino became the head coach in 89-90 season at UK. Smith of course was on the staff the first 2 years. Point is, we had people transfering in and out at a good rate the first 3 seasons even after his 4th and 5th year. Of course our program was in worse shape than yours was in comparsion but I bet we had 10 people transfer out in 8 Pitino seasons and probably just as many transfer in. I don't know if the numbers are exact but when building a program it's going to happen.When Cal took over I think 6 players transfered the first year and we had one before this season started. I expect we'll lose Jon Hood and Stacey Poole at some point as well, since they are being recruited over every year. If you end up with better players or better fits for your team than the ones leaving I don't think it's a big deal.
 

If you look at the entire situation, only two players just simply left the program with no issues, that being Cobbs and Iverson. Those two wanted more playing time and more opportunities they didn't believe they were getting (I'm making an outside observation here), and in Cobbs case, some homesickness. I'm not too troubled by them leaving, as players leave for those reasons all the time from programs when they believe they were gonna get more chances out there.

Then you have the cases of the other three transfers, Royce White, Paul Carter, and Devoe Joseph. Royce White would not be on this list if not for issues completely out of Tubby's control. He wanted to play here, Tubby wanted him to play, but wasn't allowed to by Maturi, and hence threw a fit and left. I don't believe this was all that bad necessarily, just saying, that's pretty much how it played out. I'm not bothered by that one either. Paul Carter, there's rumblings there was more to it, but all indicators I've seen point to a guy who wanted to be closer to family. Devoe Joseph's case is a little more complicated. No one seems to really know the full deal (not those speaking publicly that is), but it appears there were far more issues than just "Oh, he wanted more PT", though that was a big piece.

So it looks like there were three actual transfers due to issues with either Tubby's style or the PT he was giving them. It's a problem, but I gotta see this whole thing play out really, before I can say much. Those first two classes obviously didn't work out at all for Tubby, but once they're here, what can you do? He's clearly altered his recruiting strategy from his first couple years, so we just gotta be patient and see where that takes us. Hopefully the majority of the players he's been bringing in the last two years will stick around and build something up.
 

For Devoe and Iverson (partially Cobbs, too), it is about the conflict of interest. Apparently, Devoe and Iverson have professional ambitions. In order to accommodate them, the coaches need to structure the system in a way to accentuate or at least demonstrate fully their strengths. The coaches didn't think their strengths were good enough to warrant that, and they did not agree with it. So, they understandably made a choice for their own good. Things just didn’t work out.

Coaches are judged based on the overall performance of their teams. No need to try to blame them with a single neutral case unless morally applicable. Tubby already is in trouble for the disappointing season. One more season like that with no good recruiting class, he will be gone whether or not he takes the blame for Iverson. So, let’s not get too myopic in assigning the blame.
 

GoFerit said:
For Devoe and Iverson (partially Cobbs, too), it is about the conflict of interest. Apparently, Devoe and Iverson have professional ambitions. In order to accommodate them, the coaches need to structure the system in a way to accentuate or at least demonstrate fully their strengths. The coaches didn't think their strengths were good enough to warrant that, and they did not agree with it. So, they understandably made a choice for their own good. Things just didn’t work out.

Coaches are judged based on the overall performance of their teams. No need to try to blame them with a single neutral case unless morally applicable. Tubby already is in trouble for the disappointing season. One more season like that with no good recruiting class, he will be gone whether or not he takes the blame for Iverson. So, let’s not get too myopic in assigning the blame.
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This is a very well stated analysis. At the end of the day the coach is responsible for success that measures up to expectations. Injuries, defections and the rest all even out over time so that results will speak for themselves. The coach has to recruit and retain players that fit his system. If he does it he'll likely win.
 

notagopherfan said:
Being an Outside Observer here in KY. I watched us go through this when Pitino became the head coach in 89-90 season at UK. Smith of course was on the staff the first 2 years. Point is, we had people transfering in and out at a good rate the first 3 seasons even after his 4th and 5th year. Of course our program was in worse shape than yours was in comparsion but I bet we had 10 people transfer out in 8 Pitino seasons and probably just as many transfer in. I don't know if the numbers are exact but when building a program it's going to happen.When Cal took over I think 6 players transfered the first year and we had one before this season started. I expect we'll lose Jon Hood and Stacey Poole at some point as well, since they are being recruited over every year. If you end up with better players or better fits for your team than the ones leaving I don't think it's a big deal.
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I first want to thank you for your input, it seems rare these days to see a KY fan that doesn't HATE Tubby, and it is great getting outside perspective.

I think part of the reason MN thinks it is a big deal is because we aren't used to this. We have never had an elite coach with an elite program mindset. We have always had 4-year players who became seniors together and then made a nice little run.

At Kentucky especially, it is more common.

Look at it from Tubby's perspective and from even your own, and answer these questions:

Who would you rather start, Trevor Mbakwe or Colton Iverson?

Who would you rather start, Al Nolen / Blake Hoffarber or Devoe Joseph?

Who would you rather play, Devoe Joseph / Al Nolen / Blake Hoffarber or Justin Cobbs?

Tubby made certain choices he felt most helped the team, the players on the opposite end of that choice transfered.

Agree 100% with the original post.
 

Not that you want to hear from a UK fan but I like the way your team looked at the beginning of the year but no one had any way of knowing that the 2 guys you planned to use at point guard wouldn't be there in January. You had 2 better than average pg's vanish. Not many teams have 3 capable pg's. It looked promising when you beat UNC. You had a pretty versatile roster but then it blew up.

From the looks of your red shirt freshmen guys they are going to add some versatility. Freshman, Austin Hollins has some wheels man that dude can move, needs to improve his shot but that's not a terribly hard thing to improve. Kid seems to be a hard worker. This Oto guy, I know he had an offer from Florida. One thing I know about Eddy Munster jr, is he likes tall white boys that can shoot. They have a permanent roster spot at UF for that.
 

The team spiraled out of control and Tubby couldn't do anything to stop it. What was going on behind the scenes is a mystery to most of us, but I have to think that there should be an extra onus on Tubby next year to right the ship. I thought we were through with the seemingly endless losing and drama when Tubby arrived, so I'm extra concerned about things like dissention, bad attitudes, etc. Am I missing something, or out of line? I'll be glad to be wrong about this.
 

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