Is Fleck Brewster 2.0?

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Catechol said:
Brewster was not a head coach. Also, what kind of budget did he have for assistants in comparison, and what kind of facilities? Fleck has orders of magnitude more resources than his predecessors, so more should be expected.
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facts are hard.....
 

Fact: Brewster's first three seasons, his average margin of loss to WI was a loss by a margin of 4.33 per game.
Since then, we have never been within 10 points with an average margin of 17 loss.

In some ways, I hope Fleck is like Brewster so if we can get our 31 point margin down to 4.33, we'll win a couple.
 

No. Next question.

Can we let this play out past the first BIG road game?

We certainly have upperclassmen who are BIG caliber and I'm thankful for them. They give us a chance to compete this year.

But if recruiting continues on the course set by the current freshmen, we'll be competitive with WI and IA in 2-3 years. I've been a gopher fan for 50 years. If you're a fan, you'll give this administration some breathing room.
 




nevisgopher said:
No. Next question.

Can we let this play out past the first BIG road game?

We certainly have upperclassmen who are BIG caliber and I'm thankful for them. They give us a chance to compete this year.

But if recruiting continues on the course set by the current freshmen, we'll be competitive with WI and IA in 2-3 years. I've been a gopher fan for 50 years. If you're a fan, you'll give this administration some breathing room.
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^ This.

As I posted in a different thread, on the postgame radio broadcast, John Shipley of the Pioneer Press was posed with the question,
what do you tell Gopher fans who have one foot off the bandwagon to think? (and Shipley is no Gopher fan). His reply was.... the playmakers on this team are young... they will be here for he next 3-4 years... you should well stick around.

This coach has the right ideas., the athletes he recruits believe... building on JK's foundation, sound principles. We are going to win with this regime.
 


Breakin' The Plane said:
I don't do math.

What has Fleck done that makes him a great coach? He's into 6 years as a head coach. 9-4 Toledo remains his best win.
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What is your answer? Vince Lombardi has been dead for 47 years.

PJ is not going anywhere, and his vision will win here.
 
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Vandy said:
What is your answer? Vince Lombardi has been dead for 47 years.

PJ is not going anywhere, and his vision will win here.
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Based on what? He has never beaten a team that anyone with any sense would call a real good football team. Jeff Brohm just went out and beat the #23 team in the country. PJ got his ass handed to him by an interim coach who took over a team in turmoil who went 4-8 last year.
 



billy bremner said:
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Wow- 8 whole posts since 2013. Where do you troll from or whose sock puppet are you?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

hello-world said:
You have absolutely no idea what you're watching. They had a clear gameplan and it failed. We have one of the most disciplined teams in the country that's a sign of damn good coaching. It will pay dividends eventually.

How anyone can see the progress in our receivers this year versus last and say that Fleck isn't coaching is beyond me.
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Listen- I'll hammer people who bust PJs chops unfairly and I have gradually bought into PJ being a guy who can lead young men and recruit if nothing else. But I'm also going to take issue with this blind acceptance and hero-worship as you exhibit.

They had a clear game plan? We're disciplined? What was our defensive game plan please? Where was our gap discipline on the line and in our LB corps. You're giving credit for a clear offensive game plan that appeared to consist of an inane insistence on repeatedly running a bubble screen play that wasn't working? You think the improvement in our WR play is reflective of PJ coaching instead of the work of his WR coach? How's that WR blocking for the clear gameplan going? And if the WR play is clear progress attributable to PJ where's any improvement in the other groups of position players? Sigh- I do believe and hope PJ will develop this group of young men into a force- but just because I believe it doesn't mean one can't be critical when things go bad. Sorry for the rant.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Agreed, which is why I made this thread. Fleck has brought more to the table than Brewster, but he also admitted 2-3 times in his post-game interview that he failed as a coach to get the kids ready. In the "What grade do you give PJ Fleck for coaching in the Maryland game?" thread, 61% of GHers gave him an "F," with another 20% a "D." Fleck has the right attitude and vision, but I question his game day coaching the same way I questioned Mason's half time (non-)adjustments. This team could be great in the near future, or Fleck could be somewhere between Brewster and Kill. So far, he's flopping at 2-10 in the Big Ten and a 112-13 scoring deficit in the last three games. I hope he brings success, but again, I'm not seeing it on the sidelines on Saturdays. Where is the O-line recruiting? Why is Zack playing hurt? Why are there consistently random time-outs called? Why is the play-calling vanilla? I understand rebuilding and I know it's year 2, but these are coaching question marks that separate the good from the great. It's worth discussing.
 

I don't see how you can compare Fleck to Brewster. It's a ridiculous comparison. Brewster was a clown, and was an embarrassment as a power 5 head coach. But he went to a bowl game as a Big Ten head coach, something that Fleck hasn't yet managed.

To me, there's no comparison. Fleck has a lot of work to o to be in the same conversation as Brewster.
 



magpie said:
Agreed, which is why I made this thread. Fleck has brought more to the table than Brewster, but he also admitted 2-3 times in his post-game interview that he failed as a coach to get the kids ready. In the "What grade do you give PJ Fleck for coaching in the Maryland game?" thread, 61% of GHers gave him an "F," with another 20% a "D." Fleck has the right attitude and vision, but I question his game day coaching the same way I questioned Mason's half time (non-)adjustments. This team could be great in the near future, or Fleck could be somewhere between Brewster and Kill. So far, he's flopping at 2-10 in the Big Ten and a 112-13 scoring deficit in the last three games. I hope he brings success, but again, I'm not seeing it on the sidelines on Saturdays. Where is the O-line recruiting? Why is Zack playing hurt? Why are there consistently random time-outs called? Why is the play-calling vanilla? I understand rebuilding and I know it's year 2, but these are coaching question marks that separate the good from the great. It's worth discussing.
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I think Fleck took blame for the loss about 10 times in his post-game.
I'd prefer a coach take the blame than not take the blame.



Half-time adjustments are overrated in the fact that people think that's a really key decision point in a game. You are either in a game or out of a game. If ZA doesn't throw a pick six and they score on that drive, were the half-time adjustments better at that point?

Was it 21-3 at half
Then 42-13 second half?
So was Fleck +10 in the second half due to second half adjustments compared to the first half?


How do you measure second half adjustments?


So if a team is winning 28-0 at half time, and in the second half they score seven more points and allow two TD's and a FG on long slow drives. Was that good "second half adjustments" by the head coach who won the game?
 

Brewster won a chili cook off. Fleck is great with kayaks and canoeing, virtually anything oar or paddle related. Their skills would both come in handy on a trip to the Boundary Waters.
 

los venerables said:
I don't see how you can compare Fleck to Brewster. It's a ridiculous comparison. Brewster was a clown, and was an embarrassment as a power 5 head coach. But he went to a bowl game as a Big Ten head coach, something that Fleck hasn't yet managed.

To me, there's no comparison. Fleck has a lot of work to o to be in the same conversation as Brewster.
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Go back to buckyville you Badger troll. Seriously you have nothing better to do?
 

Another season or 2 of this and we'll have our answer.
 

magpie said:
No need to attack me. State your position or ignore the thread. Personally, I haven’t seen anything that makes Fleck a good game day coach. He’s a rah-rah guy and a recruiter. His halftime adjustments are as bad as Mason’s. I anticipated a loss, not a slaughter. The players can take the blame for the loss. Fleck’s staff has to own up for a clear lack of preparation.
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Don’t dig the hole if you don’t want to be buried in it ..
 

I’m doing just fine. It’s Phildo that’s creating a buzz, in the wrong way.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
In all seriousness, the biggest difference between Brewster and Fleck is the intensity with which the Flecksters support "their" guy. Brewster never had that degree of support.

Brewster did make it to bowl games in year 2 and 3 of his tenure - and then the wheels fell off in year #4. I think Fleck has advantages over Brewster - with the top advantage being his head coaching experience, and the fact that Fleck has a coaching philosophy, while Brewster just seemed to blow with the wind. (we're a spread team - no, we're a power running team - no we're something else).

But, as I said, the Fleck fans will support their guy through tough times - something Brewster never had. his support was like veneer - it turned out to be thin and fragile.
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Your second paragraph is exactly why the comparison is so stupid and lazy. Fleck may not be successful at MN but they’re really not close to the same. Why does everyone want to compare him to Brewster? Why not ask “will Fleck be successful?”
 


los venerables said:
I don't see how you can compare Fleck to Brewster. It's a ridiculous comparison. Brewster was a clown, and was an embarrassment as a power 5 head coach. But he went to a bowl game as a Big Ten head coach, something that Fleck hasn't yet managed.

To me, there's no comparison. Fleck has a lot of work to o to be in the same conversation as Brewster.
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You need a hobby or something. Maybe get a girlfriend or a cat (or a cat that can be your girlfriend). Something to get you out of your parent’s basement once in awhile.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
I don't do math.

What has Fleck done that makes him a great coach? He's into 6 years as a head coach. 9-4 Toledo remains his best win.
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Did you consider Kill a good coach? What was his best win prior to arriving here?

It was beating an 8-5 Toledo team. Fleck also won a MAC championship, and a bowl game. Two things Kill never did either.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Did you consider Kill a good coach? What was his best win prior to arriving here?

It was beating an 8-5 Toledo team. Fleck also won a MAC championship, and a bowl game. Two things Kill never did either.
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Kill took the scraps Brewster left him and won a trophy game in year one. They were less talented, smaller on both lines, and yet they squeaked out a win.
 


Catechol said:
Brewster was not a head coach. Also, what kind of budget did he have for assistants in comparison, and what kind of facilities? Fleck has orders of magnitude more resources than his predecessors, so more should be expected.
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Resources. Fleck has no qbs that aren’t freshmen. He is down to relying on true freshman walk-on in the secondary. His first spring practice he only had 4 olinemen who could play. His three best players are hurt.

Umm. Not a lot of resources to get started with from a depth and experience perspective. Yes I think there is talent and it continues to build. But depth and experience comes with time and I believe that we are getting closer.
 

los venerables said:
I don't see how you can compare Fleck to Brewster. It's a ridiculous comparison. Brewster was a clown, and was an embarrassment as a power 5 head coach. But he went to a bowl game as a Big Ten head coach, something that Fleck hasn't yet managed.

To me, there's no comparison. Fleck has a lot of work to o to be in the same conversation as Brewster.
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Ok, a lot of hate for Brew...so I'm just picking your post Los not that I'm necessarily being critical of you. So what made Brewster a clown? He recruited pretty well by all recruiting rankings accounts. He lead them to a bowl game. His players loved him (I have spoken to a number of former players who have told me this). His mistakes...and maybe because it was his first go round as a head coach he switched from a spread to a power team and couldn't change over his players fast enough to make it happen. He did have other assistants leave, but that was to take more money not step down to a lesser job from anything I can recall. I think if he wouldn't have switched schemes and had money to retain the coaches he might have had more success (he might not) I'm not saying he was a good coach but I don't think he goes down as one of the worst of all time. His rub was he brought excitement, he brought talk of titles and Rose Bowls here. We got used to Mas saying..."Rose Bowls! We're Minnesota! What are you talking about? We are not Ohio State, we're Minnesota", and we expected nothing! As much as Brew had faults he did seem to give it his best effort and I think all the chatter rubbed many, many people the wrong way when he couldn't deliver. I think most people see the same thing with PJ, they are scared to accept him for fear of them losing and never taking that step that every fan so desperately wants. I get the comparisons and I get the reasons why for PJ, I just think we need to give it some time. No matter what you think of Brew he had the best quotes that make me laugh all the time. "Are you hungry or are you starvin'?" "If you want some, you gotta get some", "Is your chili hot?" Man those were great!
 

Fleck is nothing like Brewster.

The only real similarity is that he annoys people.
 

NotAFanOfBecky said:
Ok, a lot of hate for Brew...so I'm just picking your post Los not that I'm necessarily being critical of you. So what made Brewster a clown? He recruited pretty well by all recruiting rankings accounts. He lead them to a bowl game. His players loved him (I have spoken to a number of former players who have told me this). His mistakes...and maybe because it was his first go round as a head coach he switched from a spread to a power team and couldn't change over his players fast enough to make it happen. He did have other assistants leave, but that was to take more money not step down to a lesser job from anything I can recall. I think if he wouldn't have switched schemes and had money to retain the coaches he might have had more success (he might not) I'm not saying he was a good coach but I don't think he goes down as one of the worst of all time. His rub was he brought excitement, he brought talk of titles and Rose Bowls here. We got used to Mas saying..."Rose Bowls! We're Minnesota! What are you talking about? We are not Ohio State, we're Minnesota", and we expected nothing! As much as Brew had faults he did seem to give it his best effort and I think all the chatter rubbed many, many people the wrong way when he couldn't deliver. I think most people see the same thing with PJ, they are scared to accept him for fear of them losing and never taking that step that every fan so desperately wants. I get the comparisons and I get the reasons why for PJ, I just think we need to give it some time. No matter what you think of Brew he had the best quotes that make me laugh all the time. "Are you hungry or are you starvin'?" "If you want some, you gotta get some", "Is your chili hot?" Man those were great!
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Dude, why respond to a wisconsin troll?
 

NotAFanOfBecky said:
Ok, a lot of hate for Brew...so I'm just picking your post Los not that I'm necessarily being critical of you. So what made Brewster a clown? He recruited pretty well by all recruiting rankings accounts. He lead them to a bowl game. His players loved him (I have spoken to a number of former players who have told me this). His mistakes...and maybe because it was his first go round as a head coach he switched from a spread to a power team and couldn't change over his players fast enough to make it happen. He did have other assistants leave, but that was to take more money not step down to a lesser job from anything I can recall. I think if he wouldn't have switched schemes and had money to retain the coaches he might have had more success (he might not) I'm not saying he was a good coach but I don't think he goes down as one of the worst of all time. His rub was he brought excitement, he brought talk of titles and Rose Bowls here. We got used to Mas saying..."Rose Bowls! We're Minnesota! What are you talking about? We are not Ohio State, we're Minnesota", and we expected nothing! As much as Brew had faults he did seem to give it his best effort and I think all the chatter rubbed many, many people the wrong way when he couldn't deliver. I think most people see the same thing with PJ, they are scared to accept him for fear of them losing and never taking that step that every fan so desperately wants. I get the comparisons and I get the reasons why for PJ, I just think we need to give it some time. No matter what you think of Brew he had the best quotes that make me laugh all the time. "Are you hungry or are you starvin'?" "If you want some, you gotta get some", "Is your chili hot?" Man those were great!
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I think you are right in that Brewster's biggest failing was the switching styles and coordinators. I think he thought there was a magic answer in one style or another and just needed to find it. The truth is that any style can succeed if you execute well and master it.
 

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