Is Craig Smith the PJ Fleck of basketball coaches?

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dpodoll68 said:
I don't really have much of an opinion on Smith - based on what little I know of him, he has produced results, he has earned everything he's accomplished, and he'd most definitely be an upgrade over Pitino. I mostly just wanted to say that he looks absolutely nothing like Fleck.
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And that's what we call an opinion. Way to get your Pitino shade in under the guise of commenting about appearance though...

Let's wait and see what Pitino does through 2020-2021, which Coyle will give him as a show of good faith. No sense in firing him this season as we all knew Coffey leaving = a down year.
 

Parcival said:
And that's what we call an opinion. Way to get your Pitino shade in under the guise of commenting about appearance though...

Let's wait and see what Pitino does through 2020-2021, which Coyle will give him as a show of good faith. No sense in firing him this season as we all knew Coffey leaving = a down year.
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Have I been coy about saying that Pitino sucks? If you want me to say it outright yet again - Pitino sucks. He's awful at his job. Craig Smith would absolutely be an upgrade, I'm 100% certain.

At quality programs, they don't crater into a hole every time a good player leaves. They have other good players waiting to take their place. The fact that "we all knew Coffey leaving = a down year" is the problem and why Pitino should've been fired already.
 





I have no idea if the Gophers will be in the market for a new coach after this season. But if they are, Smith seems to be a very logical and qualified candidate. I can’t imagine he’d turn it down.
 

howeda7 said:
It wouldn't have taken Tony Bennett 8 years to get things rolling there. :cool:
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Can we all agree that a list of the 5 best coaches in America would all be better than Pitino?

Good. Now that we agree on that I think we can also concur on the idea that none of them want to work here.

Let's play this season out and enjoy it. These threads that fantasize about what coach wants to come here after a few losses are just stupid.

Pitino has a bad overall Big Ten record- that is a fact. 40 and 70 is bad. So was Clem's 39-69 record his first 6 years. Then he rolled off a 57-33 run his next 5- unfortunately, he was doing a little cheating.
Never the less, Clem was a great coach and he needed lots of time and patience to get going.

Pitino has had some pretty bad luck while here- especially two years ago. IF not for the Lynch issue combined with a pile of injuries all in one year, we would be looking at three straight NCAA appearances, a feat never before done here at Minny. If that were the case, no one would have a legit case for discussing the firing of Pitino.

Right now I see that players consistently improve under Pitino.
His defensive coaching has not been real good but appears to be improving.
He has improved his recruiting and seems to have stopped recruiting high risk kids. This team is filled with quality kids from all appearances.
He has two thirds of a really nice recruiting class in place even though the Garcia decision really hurts.
They worked their fannies off on these recruits and I like the work ethic of the assistants who seem to be more dogged recruiters than some of the past assistants. We had over thirty offers out there, which is night and day different than Tubby (for example).
He is putting more emphasis on shooters now than before and that is a good change.
 

bga1 said:
Can we all agree that a list of the 5 best coaches in America would all be better than Pitino?

Good. Now that we agree on that I think we can also concur on the idea that none of them want to work here.

Let's play this season out and enjoy it. These threads that fantasize about what coach wants to come here after a few losses are just stupid.

Pitino has a bad overall Big Ten record- that is a fact. 40 and 70 is bad. So was Clem's 39-69 record his first 6 years. Then he rolled off a 57-33 run his next 5- unfortunately, he was doing a little cheating.
Never the less, Clem was a great coach and he needed lots of time and patience to get going.

Pitino has had some pretty bad luck while here- especially two years ago. IF not for the Lynch issue combined with a pile of injuries all in one year, we would be looking at three straight NCAA appearances, a feat never before done here at Minny. If that were the case, no one would have a legit case for discussing the firing of Pitino.

Right now I see that players consistently improve under Pitino.
His defensive coaching has not been real good but appears to be improving.
He has improved his recruiting and seems to have stopped recruiting high risk kids. This team is filled with quality kids from all appearances.
He has two thirds of a really nice recruiting class in place even though the Garcia decision really hurts.
They worked their fannies off on these recruits and I like the work ethic of the assistants who seem to be more dogged recruiters than some of the past assistants. We had over thirty offers out there, which is night and day different than Tubby (for example).
He is putting more emphasis on shooters now than before and that is a good change.
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Unfortunately he still doesn't know what his identity is going to be. He seems to be like an alchemist who keeps tinkering with chemicals to see what he can get rather than settle on something he knows will work. In the past 5 years we have had 5 different offensive schemes all tweaked to what he thinks the players can run. He can't point to a recruit and say, "we run this and you are perfect for what we do." In other words, he has no identity.
Tell me what identity Pitino has established? I can't tell you. Perhaps you know.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Have I been coy about saying that Pitino sucks? If you want me to say it outright yet again - Pitino sucks. He's awful at his job. Craig Smith would absolutely be an upgrade, I'm 100% certain.

At quality programs, they don't crater into a hole every time a good player leaves. They have other good players waiting to take their place. The fact that "we all knew Coffey leaving = a down year" is the problem and why Pitino should've been fired already.
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This is where MN needs to get to. Not close in the RP era.
 



MennoSota said:
Unfortunately he still doesn't know what his identity is going to be. He seems to be like an alchemist who keeps tinkering with chemicals to see what he can get rather than settle on something he knows will work. In the past 5 years we have had 5 different offensive schemes all tweaked to what he thinks the players can run. He can't point to a recruit and say, "we run this and you are perfect for what we do." In other words, he has no identity.
Tell me what identity Pitino has established? I can't tell you. Perhaps you know.
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We hired a 30 year old coach who was confident and started out thinking he was going to recruit 5 stars, take some risky kids and make good citizens of them and run and gun in the Big Ten. It didn't work out for him. The first three years were pretty much lost except for Murphy and Mason.

There has been an obvious change in his recruiting strategy as he has realized that he isn't going to get 5 star saints to come here. Not happening unless a local kid wants to be a Gopher. So then he got some grinders in like Murphy and Coffey and did pretty well here after they learned. But he didn't have enough shooting. So again, he has modified and we are seeing a higher percentage of his guys coming into the program as solid shooters. (Mashburn, Carr, Gabe, Willis, Ihnen, Mitchell are all good shooters at their position and Oturu might be added to that list)

I believe what he wants to do is play with a team that is like this one (better shooters), except with a better stretch 4 and a longer wing. He wants to play good man defense and run when possible. Picture this current squad with a healthy Curry at PF and Coffey at the 3 and that's what he wanted this squad to be. Personally, I think he did a pretty darned good job of coaching last year's team with nothing close to a real PG on the team.

I see an identity and I see a directional improvement in where the program is going. The question will be whether he can retain the confidence of the AD to get the job finished or if the AD believes he has a better option. If Oturu stays (he should) and we get a solid spring PF, we have a very good team next year. This year might not be too bad either. I am willing to wait and see.
 

bga1 said:
Can we all agree that a list of the 5 best coaches in America would all be better than Pitino?

Good. Now that we agree on that I think we can also concur on the idea that none of them want to work here.

Let's play this season out and enjoy it. These threads that fantasize about what coach wants to come here after a few losses are just stupid.

Pitino has a bad overall Big Ten record- that is a fact. 40 and 70 is bad. So was Clem's 39-69 record his first 6 years. Then he rolled off a 57-33 run his next 5- unfortunately, he was doing a little cheating.
Never the less, Clem was a great coach and he needed lots of time and patience to get going.

Pitino has had some pretty bad luck while here- especially two years ago. IF not for the Lynch issue combined with a pile of injuries all in one year, we would be looking at three straight NCAA appearances, a feat never before done here at Minny. If that were the case, no one would have a legit case for discussing the firing of Pitino.

Right now I see that players consistently improve under Pitino.
His defensive coaching has not been real good but appears to be improving.
He has improved his recruiting and seems to have stopped recruiting high risk kids. This team is filled with quality kids from all appearances.
He has two thirds of a really nice recruiting class in place even though the Garcia decision really hurts.
They worked their fannies off on these recruits and I like the work ethic of the assistants who seem to be more dogged recruiters than some of the past assistants. We had over thirty offers out there, which is night and day different than Tubby (for example).
He is putting more emphasis on shooters now than before and that is a good change.
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That wasn't in reference to Pitino. The UNC-G guy has been there 8 years but Built is promoting him as a hot up and comer.
 


manderson1984 said:
Did they crater when Nate Mason left?
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Crater? No, not really.

I think I understand what dp is saying and I agree - MN needs to have quality players, ready to play minutes in conference and out of conference, each and every year. This year I don't see it, at least not yet.

Daniel is a quality player, no doubt. I am worried, however, when conference play starts and he has to face bigger and stronger, without Murphy and without stellar perimeter shooting. Opponents will focus on him, unless they are crazy.
 



MennoSota said:
Unfortunately he still doesn't know what his identity is going to be. He seems to be like an alchemist who keeps tinkering with chemicals to see what he can get rather than settle on something he knows will work. In the past 5 years we have had 5 different offensive schemes all tweaked to what he thinks the players can run. He can't point to a recruit and say, "we run this and you are perfect for what we do." In other words, he has no identity.
Tell me what identity Pitino has established? I can't tell you. Perhaps you know.
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Aren't coaches suppose to make tweaks based on our best players? He ran a ton of high low stuff with Oturo and Murphy, ran more weave and iso with Mason and Hollins. I don't like the offense that we've ran, but he ran it based on players. All teams adjust offenses accordingly. Even Bo Ryan was running Princeton based stuff not swing during their final four runs. No one runs a straight offense religiously and makes pieces fit; they fit the system to the player. Now where coaches make choices offensively is getting players that have shown to be efficient and team first guys. Ones that make extra passes, have a certain mentality, etc...
 

BarnBurner said:
Crater? No, not really.

I think I understand what dp is saying and I agree - MN needs to have quality players, ready to play minutes in conference and out of conference, each and every year. This year I don't see it, at least not yet.

Daniel is a quality player, no doubt. I am worried, however, when conference play starts and he has to face bigger and stronger, without Murphy and without stellar perimeter shooting. Opponents will focus on him, unless they are crazy.
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Correct, they made the tournament and were better when many people felt they couldn't win. I'm saying I don't think I'm ready to proclaim the well dry yet. I think this roster is better than most if they continue to develop a defensive identity. I think the offense will only get better with continuity.
 


bga1 said:
We hired a 30 year old coach who was confident and started out thinking he was going to recruit 5 stars, take some risky kids and make good citizens of them and run and gun in the Big Ten. It didn't work out for him. The first three years were pretty much lost except for Murphy and Mason.

There has been an obvious change in his recruiting strategy as he has realized that he isn't going to get 5 star saints to come here. Not happening unless a local kid wants to be a Gopher. So then he got some grinders in like Murphy and Coffey and did pretty well here after they learned. But he didn't have enough shooting. So again, he has modified and we are seeing a higher percentage of his guys coming into the program as solid shooters. (Mashburn, Carr, Gabe, Willis, Ihnen, Mitchell are all good shooters at their position and Oturu might be added to that list)

I believe what he wants to do is play with a team that is like this one (better shooters), except with a better stretch 4 and a longer wing. He wants to play good man defense and run when possible. Picture this current squad with a healthy Curry at PF and Coffey at the 3 and that's what he wanted this squad to be. Personally, I think he did a pretty darned good job of coaching last year's team with nothing close to a real PG on the team.

I see an identity and I see a directional improvement in where the program is going. The question will be whether he can retain the confidence of the AD to get the job finished or if the AD believes he has a better option. If Oturu stays (he should) and we get a solid spring PF, we have a very good team next year. This year might not be too bad either. I am willing to wait and see.
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Was going to say the same thing. Everyone complaining about an "identity" for the team clearly don't see how Pitino has been recruiting these past few classes. He's looking to build a lengthy "3 and D" squad that can stretch the floor and bother opponents with lengthy defense. Look at the size of Oturu, Freeman, Mitchell, Ihnen. Almost added Garcia to that list but we're in the market for a new PF recruit now.
 

howeda7 said:
That wasn't in reference to Pitino. The UNC-G guy has been there 8 years but Built is promoting him as a hot up and comer.
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Not promoting him. Passing on that he is highly thought of and that his teams play good basketball.
 

Parcival said:
Was going to say the same thing. Everyone complaining about an "identity" for the team clearly don't see how Pitino has been recruiting these past few classes. He's looking to build a lengthy "3 and D" squad that can stretch the floor and bother opponents with lengthy defense. Look at the size of Oturu, Freeman, Mitchell, Ihnen. Almost added Garcia to that list but we're in the market for a new PF recruit now.
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Unfortunately he'll never match John Beilein or produce that kind of efficiency from his players.
Sadly, he's another Joey Meyer...
 

MennoSota said:
Unfortunately he'll never match John Beilein or produce that kind of efficiency from his players.
Sadly, he's another Joey Meyer...
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Musselman or Nate Oates teams won't play that efficient either. Once in a 20-30 year guy if lucky.
 

Looking at Smith's roster at Utah State, it doesn't appear that he recruited any of the significant contributors. The most impactful "Smith guy" appears to be Junior College transfer C Kuba Karowski who is 7th on the team in minutes per game (15.3) and 8th in scoring (3.1).
 

EG#9 said:
Looking at Smith's roster at Utah State, it doesn't appear that he recruited any of the significant contributors. The most impactful "Smith guy" appears to be Junior College transfer C Kuba Karowski who is 7th on the team in minutes per game (15.3) and 8th in scoring (3.1).
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Correct, love Smith, but he's still a wild card.
 


BarnBurner said:
Built quote: "If this staff does not work they will look at Wes Miller."
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Not a promotion. Just a fact. Follow the connections. There would be several candidates, not that complicated and some will be behind the scenes. Once again do you have your own opinion or just commenting on or repeating mine. A promotion would sound more like "we should hire Wes Miller, really impressive guy, much brighter than the other candidates. "
Really doubt the board gains anything from the back and forth bickering. Several posters are engaging in a healthy exchange of opinions even when in disagreement.
 

builtbadgers said:
Not a promotion. Just a fact. Follow the connections. There would be several candidates, not that complicated and some will be behind the scenes. Once again do you have your own opinion or just commenting on or repeating mine. A promotion would sound more like "we should hire Wes Miller, really impressive guy, much brighter than the other candidates. "
Really doubt the board gains anything from the back and forth bickering. Several posters are engaging in a healthy exchange of opinions even when in disagreement.
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Just pointing out your own words, badger. True to form, you backpedal.

My opinion has had nor will have anything to do with firing/hiring coaches at the U of MN. Nothing. YOU are the one with decades of data and knowledge, badger, by your own admission.

I want the best coach for MN BB, one that will win big in the NCAA tourney.
 


EG#9 said:
Looking at Smith's roster at Utah State, it doesn't appear that he recruited any of the significant contributors. The most impactful "Smith guy" appears to be Junior College transfer C Kuba Karowski who is 7th on the team in minutes per game (15.3) and 8th in scoring (3.1).
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OK.

But, the guy who was the HC at Utah State the three seasons before Craig Smith, finished 8th, 8th, and 7th in the conf standings and was fired. He's an assistant at Boise this season.

So ... wouldn't you agree that CM is getting more out of those players, somehow?
 

builtbadgers said:
Not promoting him. Passing on that he is highly thought of and that his teams play good basketball.
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So just curious, what do you think of the fact that this is his ninth season at UNC-G, which I believe is a low-major school/conference, and only the last three seasons has he heated up there?
 

MnplsGopher said:
So just curious, what do you think of the fact that this is his ninth season at UNC-G, which I believe is a low-major school/conference, and only the last three seasons has he heated up there?
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4 straight conference winning seasons, built deep recruiting relationships, built a culture, very bright. Those last 3 seasons have been incredibly gaudy conference records. Super keen eye for under the radar talent. And damn, that culture of playing soundly.
 

Additionally he had serious family considerations to stay and he is in position to take the right job. Remember, you do not normally get that chance now days until you actually win something. Reminds me of Tony Bennett winning at WSU where that is impossible. That earned him offers from Indiana, LSU, Marquette and UVA. He got it fast because everyone saw that if you can do it at WSU you can do it anywhere. UVA was perfect as a fit in academics, wanting the hardest challenge conference wise, great facilities and getting his wife back in the south. Wes will have many factors that determine where he goes. If he waits it could be UNC but someone may get him first.
 

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