Is anyone else slightly concerned about Western Kentucky?

[Varmint Cong]

Thanks for the link to their board. After reading how confident they are, this game is suddenly way more important to me.

 

[Dr.Don]

As long as we fly Bo Ryan down there and then get to pick his opponent!

Rick Majerus would be my pick to beat Bo!!!!!

 

[bga1]

Many are talking about the chance to play UNC in the 2nd rd of the PR Tourney, but I hope we aren't overlooking Western Kentucky:

After being a quality mid-major team over the past few years, WKU is now 2-0 on the year: they shelled St. Joseph's at St. Joseph's last week by 30 points, and just beat Alabama A&M by 20+ while missing 25+ free throws. They have 3 guys averaging over 18 pts/game, shoot the 3 very well (44% as a team), and pass it it very well (21 assists/game).

I hope this isn't a team that we take lightly; they look to be a legit squad and one that gave definitely give us a run for our money. I think this will end up being the strongest team out of the 3 we've played so far, and we know how tight the Siena & Wofford games were...hopefully the guys come out prepared in Game 1 of the PR Tourney.

If you say that they shoot the 3 well- then count me as a little concerned. Tubby likes to force the opposition to shoot the 3. Quality competition did it very well last year- just as Siena did last night. Last year Big Ten teams shot 38% on 3's against us on a whopping 386 shots (20+ per game)- which is the equivalent of shooting 57% on 2's effectively. In my amateur view we have got a team that has great upside- as high as Big Ten Champs- IF we can clean up our 3 point defense and play better in the last 5 minutes of games with a lead (we don't stall well- at all).

 

[GophersInIowa]

True. But they also should have won convincingly. According to KenPom their first two opponents were ranked 177th and 334th respectively. Wofford and Siena are in the mid 90's range for us and granted Wofford and Siena gave us a bit of a test those games should have us a bit more prepared, I hope, than the competition WKT has played so far.

Overall I think I'm concerned about the officiating. These damn preseason tournaments. They either call literally everything or nothing. I wonder which one it will be.

If they call everything, I think that could be to our advantage. We have a lot more depth than they do. Plus they may be an even worse free throw shooting team than us.

 

[NDGopher]

Are you people SERIOUS?! Worried about a directional school?!? This team couldn't even make the tournament in their crappy mid-major conference last year. Tubby owned the mid-major champion of last year in Butler. As it does with all these teams, our bigs will destroy them.

They might keep it close for a while but anything less than a 10+ point win would be a disappointment.

If the people saying we are going to be a 2nd weekend of the big dance kind of team are saying that we should be worried about Western Kentucky, a serious reconsideration of one or the other is in order, Joseph or no Joseph.

 

[Jeshurun]

Here is my suggestion: Let the Coaches have a Suma-Wrestling in the Center Court Circle, the winner moves on, the Loser moves out. The hell with the game.

If this becomes a reality I vote we hire Mark Mangino.

 

[oleboy41]

WKU is a good team and has been good for a while. I glanced at their board and their fans have the typical little brother syndrome we always see when playing mid majors in FB or BB. They think everyone thinks they're no good, take one negative comment and get all worked up about it, blah blah blah. This is basketball and anyone can beat anyone. After the near loss to Sienna this Gopher team won't be taking anyone lightly. Does that mean they'll win? Of course not. WKU is good enough to beat us if we bring our B game. That said if we play well we should be able to beat them. For the Gophers this game is about defensive position and rotation as well as rebounding and inside scoring. Our bigs need to establish themselves inside and the guards need to squeeze the shooters. If the Gophers play fairly well they should be able to win this game.

 

[matt]

Are you people SERIOUS?! Worried about a directional school?!? This team couldn't even make the tournament in their crappy mid-major conference last year. Tubby owned the mid-major champion of last year in Butler. As it does with all these teams, our bigs will destroy them.

They might keep it close for a while but anything less than a 10+ point win would be a disappointment.

If the people saying we are going to be a 2nd weekend of the big dance kind of team are saying that we should be worried about Western Kentucky, a serious reconsideration of one or the other is in order, Joseph or no Joseph.

Did you see the Siena game?

 

[jmag21]

Man, the WKU folks are crazy! They are incredibly confident about this tilt. Personally, I just love that they have a big ol' Clem Haskins jersey in the header image for their site. I also like that they're saying that we're another "slow big ten team," and that they're going to be able to get out and run on us. I'd welcome a running game, because our half-court offense has always lagged far behind our half-court offense, and we have the athletes to get back on transition D. I'm looking forward to this one. I'd love to be able to play UNC, so I hope none of the guys look past this team.

 

[Clem's Gophers]

and is missing possibly their most important player, Devoe Joseph.

I'd pick both Trevor and Blake over Deove as our most important player.

To add to that I'm not convinced by Devoe's streakiness most of his Gopher career that he is more or less important then Ralph, Nolen or Iverson. If he is 'on' he is big, he still has some glaring weaknesses to his game.

 

[NDGopher]

Did you see the Siena game?

Yes....we have played 2 games. I wouldn't put too much stock into that. We won, didn't we? It wasn't pretty, but Siena played incredibly well especially offensively (minus the turnovers, which speaks to solid defense) and still couldn't come out with a win. Look at more than the margin of victory...

They are undersized and don't have near our talent level. Pound it inside to Ralph/Colt/Trevor and there is no way we lose.

 

[KSBGopher]

I'd pick both Trevor and Blake over Deove as our most important player.

To add to that I'm not convinced by Devoe's streakiness most of his Gopher career that he is more or less important then Ralph, Nolen or Iverson. If he is 'on' he is big, he still has some glaring weaknesses to his game.

I disagree. Devoe showed us last year that he can be consistent...I don't know where you are getting that DJ is inconsistent or streaky.

 

[ShowinGoldyLove]

I disagree. Devoe showed us last year that he can be consistent...I don't know where you are getting that DJ is inconsistent or streaky.

In all fairness, the first 1/2 of last year Joseph wasn't pretty...terrible shooting % (something like 25% from 3, and many games where he was like 1-8 from the field), large number of 4+ TO games, etc...the whole month of December he didn't play more than 20 min in any game, shooting like 30% during that time.

It wasn't until middle of the Big 10 season where he started picking it up.

 

[GoldenGopherSwag]

Above statement is true. Joseph really kicked it into gear down the stretch last year. Very average the first part of the season.

 

[KSBGopher]

In all fairness, the first 1/2 of last year Joseph wasn't pretty...terrible shooting % (something like 25-30% from 3, and many games where he was like 1-8 from the field), large number of 4+ TO games, etc...the whole month of December he didn't play more than 20 min in any game.

It wasn't until middle of the Big 10 season where he started picking it up.

I guess my consistency argument is geared towards the last couple months of the season. He looked settled and had a consistent shot and game. Sure, he would have some 4-5 turnover games (like any player does), but he consistently out-assisted the turnovers along with grabbing boards and draining shots. I think he only had 7 games in which he turned over more than assisted (3 of those were after Dec.).

 

[98VQueens]

Most the last two year's Devoe has been a very streaky shooter and sloppy passer, he had a great Big Ten Tournament.

After his two best games, 23 point at Penn State, followed up with 14 at Michigan... The following six games of the season vs Big Ten opponents he shot 4 of 23, 1 of 12 3PA/3PM. Add in the Texas game and Devoe finished the season going 5 of 28 and 1 of 14.

 

[NDGopher]

I guess my consistency argument is geared towards the last couple months of the season. He looked settled and had a consistent shot and game. Sure, he would have some 4-5 turnover games (like any player does), but he consistently out-assisted the turnovers along with grabbing boards and draining shots. I think he only had 7 games in which he turned over more than assisted (3 of those were after Dec.).

Picking a time period defies the meaning of consistent.... Nice try

 

[KSBGopher]

Picking a time period defies the meaning of consistent.... Nice try

Really...?

I'll help you with the meaning. From dictionary.com:
con·sist·ent   
[kuhn-sis-tuhnt] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
agreeing or accordant; compatible; not self-contradictory: His views and actions are consistent.
2.
constantly adhering to the same principles, course, form, etc.: a consistent opponent.
3.
holding firmly together; cohering.
4.
Archaic . fixed; firm.

I see nothing about restricting the meaning to a universal time period and not being able to parse up consistency according to certain intervals. But maybe you could help me.

 

[98VQueens]

if you want to crown him, then crown his ass

The numbers don't lie, very inconsistence shooter; vs Big Ten opponents he shot 4 of 23, 1 of 12 3PA/3PM. Add in the Texas game and Devoe finished the season going 5 of 28 and 1 of 14.

Check out his other stats, lots of 'off' games.

 

[KSBGopher]

if you want to crown him, then crown his ass

The numbers don't lie, very inconsistence shooter; vs Big Ten opponents he shot 4 of 23, 1 of 12 3PA/3PM. Add in the Texas game and Devoe finished the season going 5 of 28 and 1 of 14.

Check out his other stats, lots of off games.

What are you talking about? Which games are you referring to? The stats, when I look at them, show Devoe at 40% FG against BT teams...(.4037). Are you referring to the 08-09 season?

 

[bga1]

In all fairness, the first 1/2 of last year Joseph wasn't pretty...terrible shooting % (something like 25% from 3, and many games where he was like 1-8 from the field), large number of 4+ TO games, etc...the whole month of December he didn't play more than 20 min in any game, shooting like 30% during that time.

It wasn't until middle of the Big 10 season where he started picking it up.

I'm not comparing the two but this is how it works with underclassmen. Bobby Jackson for instance was on a yo-yo string with Clem his first year as a Juco transfer. Shot hot and cold, turned it over at the wrong times,etc. At the end of that year he had a few real good games. The next year he was off and running and became our star. Not saying that Devoe will soar that high but he's likely to be pretty darn valuable to us.

 

[98VQueens]

What are you talking about? Which games are you referring to? The stats, when I look at them, show Devoe at 40% FG against BT teams...(.4037). Are you referring to the 08-09 season?

Obviously the 08-09 season, considering I refereed to the last 7 game of the season including the Texas ncaa game... But along with those stats I added the link is to the 09-10 season, showing the 0-4's, 1-7, 1-5, 4-14. A very streaky shooter who can do some damage when he's hot/ hurt's the team when he's cold.

Shot hot and cold, turned it over at the wrong times,etc. At the end of that year he had a few real good games. The next year he was off and running and became our star. Not saying that Devoe will soar that high but he's likely to be pretty darn valuable to us.

He followed up his big few games with 1of6 and 0of3 vs Xavier. I agree is his very valuable to the Gophers, but people are making him out to be more then he is.

 

[KSBGopher]

Obviously, considering I refereed to the last 7 game of the season including the Texas ncaa game... hello. But along with those stats I added the link is to the 09-10 season, showing the 0-4's, 1-7, 1-5, 4-14. A very streaky shooter who can do some damage when he's hot/ hurt's the team when he's cold.

So we are going to cherry pick (or onion pick?) games in which players do not play well and then define their shooting based on that? That is borderline absurd and you could pick the best shooter (at any level of basketball) and define them as inconsistent based off of 6-7 games...the end of Devoe's freshman year was a long time ago and I don't think anyone would agree that it's correct to define DJ off those stats. But you're welcome to do it.

 

[98VQueens]

So we are going to cherry pick (or onion pick?) games in which players do not play well and then define their shooting based on that? That is borderline absurd and you could pick the best shooter (at any level of basketball) and define them as inconsistent based off of 6-7 games...the end of Devoe's freshman year was a long time ago and I don't think anyone would agree that it's correct to define DJ off those stats. But you're welcome to do it.

Onion pick?

He's had great games he's had terrible games. A very streaky shooter who can do some damage when he's hot/ hurt's the team when he's cold.

Is that so hard to understand?

 

[bga1]

Obviously the 08-09 season, considering I refereed to the last 7 game of the season including the Texas ncaa game... But along with those stats I added the link is to the 09-10 season, showing the 0-4's, 1-7, 1-5, 4-14. A very streaky shooter who can do some damage when he's hot/ hurt's the team when he's cold.



He followed up his big few games with 1of6 and 0of3 vs Xavier. I agree is his very valuable to the Gophers, but people are making him out to be more then he is.

Really at this point it's speculation on both sides. He may be huge for us or he may not improve. But for those who are optimistic he's the guy who led us donw the stretch took over the point and played assertively. He ended the year averaging 9.4 points per game, 3 assists, shot 38.8% from 3pt range (not bad) and 39% fg% (not so great).

Just for example here's Bobby Jackson's Junior line:
Min FG% 3% FT% R PPG
95-96 Minnesota 27.3 40.6 29.5 78.7 4.8 2.7 2.2 0.3 1.4 13.3
96-97 Minnesota 31.5 44.1 32.0 78.6 6.1 4.0 2.3 0.2 2.1 15.3

Looks like Joseph is a far better shooter by percentage from 3pts.................

 

[KSBGopher]

Onion pick?

He's had great games he's had terrible games. A very streaky shooter who can do some damage when he's hot/ hurt's the team when he's cold.

Is that so hard to understand?

Onion picking is my own little twist on cherry picking...picking out only games where a player has done poorly in order to define them.

And yes, that definition is hard to follow. I'll offer an analogy to help:

Joe Mauer went 5-23 (.217) in his last 7 games (2 series) this season. But he had some great games too. Does this make him "streaky" as well?

It's just difficult for me to understand why we can select a series of games in which a player has underperformed (especially the more distant games (e.g. 08-09 season)) and then define a player as streaky. I think, as of late, DJ has shown us that he can be consistent in BT play (last season shooting .403 in BT conference (including 0-4,0-4,0-5 games)).

My point is that ANY player in ANY sport can have games in which they perform poorly throughout their career, but to define them based on that is poor analysis and, in all honesty absurd. Your speculation is that DJ is going to be streaky because he had a poor end of the year performance in 08-09 and a poor beginning in 09-10 he is inconsistent. My speculation is that because, as of late, DJ has shown consistency in a tough conference that he will be consistent this year and a crucial part of the team...I'm just finding your argument not compelling, I guess.

 

[98VQueens]

My speculation is that because, as of late, DJ has shown consistency in a tough conference that he will be consistent this year and a crucial part of the team...I'm just finding your argument not compelling, I guess.

And your argument is compelling? Wait you haven't presented one. Look at the stats.

I disagree. Devoe showed us last year that he can be consistent...I don't know where you are getting that DJ is inconsistent or streaky.

What do you have to back this up? Joe Mauer's stats? Devoe has shown very little consistency over the past two season.

 

[XMan]

Devoe was our best offensive player for the second half of the season. IMO. He stepped up and was pretty consistent when he was needed and got more playing time. We would be a better team with him and he is one of the most important players on the team. Leave it at that. I wish he was playing for W. Kent. and then hopefully UNC.

 

[Gopher in Texas]

WKU beat St. Joes 98 - 70 at St. Joes

St Joes hung tough with Penn State (but lost) 66 - 57 at State

If Gophers don't play their best they will lose.

 

[ShowinGoldyLove]

Well not to bump a thread unnecessarily, but I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks they're a good team, and a formidable opponent. The fact that Vegas only has us favored by 4 points to the fact that most expect it to be a very competitive contest.

I will admit though, the arrogance on the WKU message board makes me want to beat them way more than I did 3 days ago.