invalid fair catch signal

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60's Guy said:
Video - That's the question asked by a non Iowa fan. Gotta say when you see the field level view that the officials themselves had live it is understandable to me why there was no call on the field. The review booth video is a very different perspective.
I have not read the rule...does his arm have to go above his shoulder? Or no? Can you not move your arms at all other than a normal running arm pump? A return man should have the ability with full stadium screaming to alert his teammates to get out of the way on a short punt. Is there a way to do that without it being an illegal fair catch signal?
It seems we got very lucky.
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The punt receiver cannot start waving a hand in any fashion and continue the return because it can be an attempt to confuse the opposition. Whether it's a valid fair catch signal or not the play is dead when the ball is caught.
 

jovs said:
The punt receiver cannot start waving a hand in any fashion and continue the return because it can be an attempt to confuse the opposition. Whether it's a valid fair catch signal or not the play is dead when the ball is caught.
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Not only could it be that, but that seemed to be the effect. I thought he was fair catching or at least letting it drop.
 

HitMeAgainIAmStillMoving said:
Not only could it be that, but that seemed to be the effect. I thought he was fair catching or at least letting it drop.
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My immediate reaction from above (row 63) was that he signaled for a fair catch. Seeing the field view, that would have been tougher for the refs to see, but not the players who are in pursuit and likely pulled up on the play. It’s a good rule. And I’m convinced it was done intentionally deceptive by the return guy. Reading the rule elsewhere, the play is absolutely textbook illustration of the invalid fair catch rule. Not a bad call at all.
 

60's Guy said:
Video - That's the question asked by a non Iowa fan. Gotta say when you see the field level view that the officials themselves had live it is understandable to me why there was no call on the field. The review booth video is a very different perspective.
I have not read the rule...does his arm have to go above his shoulder? Or no? Can you not move your arms at all other than a normal running arm pump? A return man should have the ability with full stadium screaming to alert his teammates to get out of the way on a short punt. Is there a way to do that without it being an illegal fair catch signal?
It seems we got very lucky.
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The rule is you can't wave your arms at all, your hand doesn't have to go over your head. You do have the right to alert your teammates to get out of the way - but if you do that, you can't return the ball. That's the rules.
 


RodentRampage said:
The rule is you can't wave your arms at all, your hand doesn't have to go over your head. You do have the right to alert your teammates to get out of the way - but if you do that, you can't return the ball. That's the rules.
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It is shocking to me how many people can't understand this. I still see Iowa fans complain that Cooper didn't signal for a fair catch......yeah....he didn't.....that isn't the issue and never has been. Punt returner can wave arms as much as he wants, and he can go field the punt as well....he just can't try and advance it when he does.

And I have seen a lot of people talking about how none of the on field crew made the call. The reality is that there was probably one on field ref that would have been watching DeJean when he made the arm motion, the rest were almost certainly focused on some other aspect of the play. So the one ref screwed up by not blowing it dead right away but the others probably didn't know he had waved an arm around so they didn't stop the play when he started running it.

It is a reviewable play so even if he had not scored there is a good chance the play would have been reversed by the replay booth who could clearly see the invalid fair catch signal.
 

MNVCGUY said:
It is shocking to me how many people can't understand this. I still see Iowa fans complain that Cooper didn't signal for a fair catch......yeah....he didn't.....that isn't the issue and never has been. Punt returner can wave arms as much as he wants, and he can go field the punt as well....he just can't try and advance it when he does.

And I have seen a lot of people talking about how none of the on field crew made the call. The reality is that there was probably one on field ref that would have been watching DeJean when he made the arm motion, the rest were almost certainly focused on some other aspect of the play. So the one ref screwed up by not blowing it dead right away but the others probably didn't know he had waved an arm around so they didn't stop the play when he started running it.

It is a reviewable play so even if he had not scored there is a good chance the play would have been reversed by the replay booth who could clearly see the invalid fair catch signal.
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Waving the rest of the team off is essentially the same concept as the QB sliding - the receiving team is conceding the kick return in order to ensure they take possession. He can certainly field it to keep it from rolling further, but he cannot advance it. It really is not difficult to understand at all. Or, like I said in a previous post, open the floodgates and let him get lit up. After getting smoked a couple of times, he will legitimately be waving people away with no intention of ever fielding the ball again.
 


The whole notion of a return man needing to wave his hands to alert his team is stupid. The only one who should be moving out of the way are the ones blocking the gunners. Well if they are blocking the gunners they won't be able to turn around and look at the returner to see him waving his hands.
 




DarrenTheGreek said:
The whole notion of a return man needing to wave his hands to alert his team is stupid. The only one who should be moving out of the way are the ones blocking the gunners. Well if they are blocking the gunners they won't be able to turn around and look at the returner to see him waving his hands.
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Darren, you don’t understand football. Go back to commenting on Rachel Ray episodes.
 







Checked with my colleague. The Back Judge should have blown the play dead as soon as he touched it. He has worked with him before and he is typically very good. Not sure how or why the signal was missed, but it was clearly an illegal fair catch signal. Period. Replay got it right, which is why it is there in the first place. The replay official has just as much say as an on-field official, and can initiate a "booth review" whether the field or coaches ask for it or not, especially on a scoring play.
 

DarthGopher said:
Checked with my colleague. The Back Judge should have blown the play dead as soon as he touched it. He has worked with him before and he is typically very good. Not sure how or why the signal was missed, but it was clearly an illegal fair catch signal. Period. Replay got it right, which is why it is there in the first place. The replay official has just as much say as an on-field official, and can initiate a "booth review" whether the field or coaches ask for it or not, especially on a scoring play.
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I previously thought that an "invalid fair catch" call made on the field (not in review) resulted in a 5-yard penalty. I think it still is in the NFL. I'm curious if that was changed or if it has always been that way.
 


salzie said:
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Good article, but the author still couldn't resist throwing in the "it feels ticky tack" part. Well buddy, imho, most holding penalties are ticky tack. About half the pass interference penalties are ticky tack, like the one on Walley in the end zone that gave Iowa their only TD a little bit later. And let us not forget the 15 yard Unsportsmanlike on Nubin for punching the ball out when the guy was still trying to advance it forward. Uber ticky tack. Turned 4th and goal into 1st and goal.
 

Panthadad2 said:
I previously thought that an "invalid fair catch" call made on the field (not in review) resulted in a 5-yard penalty. I think it still is in the NFL. I'm curious if that was changed or if it has always been that way.
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NFL yes. I don't think college ever had a penalty for it, but I'm not sure. It is just a dead ball at that point.
 


DarthGopher said:
NFL yes. I don't think college ever had a penalty for it, but I'm not sure. It is just a dead ball at that point.
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Since it's not a penalty, I'd coach the returner to sneak a below-shoulder wave in there to make the tacklers hesitate when a big play is needed. If nothing else, the returner might even draw a 15-yard penalty.
 



Panthadad2 said:
Since it's not a penalty, I'd coach the returner to sneak a below-shoulder wave in there to make the tacklers hesitate when a big play is needed. If nothing else, the returner might even draw a 15-yard penalty.
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What are the odds that Iowa returners are coached to point and wave in order to deceive coverage?
 


DCinOK said:
De jean says he was "trying to keep my balance." Ridiculous. But Iowa Nation mouthbreathes and nods vigorously.
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you haven't noticed him flying all over the field waving his arm when playing defense?

Similar to Brad Davison saying him punching guy in the nuts was just how he fights through screens
 

DCinOK said:
De jean says he was "trying to keep my balance." Ridiculous. But Iowa Nation mouthbreathes and nods vigorously.
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This I actually believe. Hard to run and not move your arms. I saw a kid get called for this a couple weeks ago where he was going for the ball with his arms out to catch it and the ref deemed a fair catch signal.

I think the refs got it right and should have blown it dead, but I can see why #3 may have thought he was legal. The video replay however shows the waving of the left arm which the officials deemed as an invalid signal.

On to MSU... please stop looking at this thread...please stop looking at this thread...
 


Vandy said:
Yeah “it’s tough when they take it away”….. by enforcing a rule… I believe the windmilling of his arm was an effort to deceive, and was likely instructed. They were desperate. Why not try, it’s not a penalty.
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Even if it WASNT an effort to deceive, it is the rule

It is like saying you should get a touchdown even though you stepped out of bounds.
 

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