invalid fair catch signal

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ergopher said:
The simple reality of the situation is that if he did not wave for a fair catch he would have been tackled instead and the play would not have happened. The TD happened because Gopher special teams assumed he was going to play by the rules and not run.
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When I watched it in real time, I was baffled as to why all of a sudden he was running with the ball, because he cleary waved an arm. I was trying to figure out how many yards they needed for a FG at the spot when he decided to pick it up and take off with it.
 


I think most here understand the rule around. Shockingly, many Iowa fans don’t.

His intentions are irrelevant. He could be waiving off his teammates, waiving to his mom in the stands or swatting a fly. It doesn’t matter. Once he waived his arms at all he can’t gain yardage if he fields the punt. It’s not a penalty. It’s just the same as if he called a legal fair catch.

“Why have different valid and invalid fair catches then?”

The difference is a returner doesn’t have the protection of a valid fair catch. It isn’t a penalty if you’re tackled after making an invalid fair catch.

“Why is it rarely called?”
It rarely happens where a returner waives his teammates out of the way and then actually tries to field the punt.

Seen lots of these types of comments and it’s laughable. They didn’t blow the play dead so clearly wouldn’t be a penalty for trying to tackle him.

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The amount of unintelligent posts by Iowa fans is quite comical.
 

I've been investigating this a bit more and it does appear that CFB can let an invalid fair catch play out. Here's an invalid fair catch from the Ohio State vs Purdue game from last year.
 


GopherRob said:
Why would you wave your back hand like that…a kick returner never does that. Plus he was really late on all his fair catch catch calls the whole game.
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We commented on this earlier in the game. There was a couple very late fair catches.
 


MplsGopher said:
@Holy Man he definitely didn't raise his arm above his head, but he also definitely was signaling to his teammates to get away from the ball.

It's pathetic that he lied about that to media. He claimed in the post-game interview he was just trying to keep his balance, but that is such a silly little lie by a bitter little boy.
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That just tells me he knew exactly what he was doing and was either trying to draw an unsportsmanlike hit OR get the gunners to ease up so he could field it and run.
 

kisarazu said:
I've been investigating this a bit more and it does appear that CFB can let an invalid fair catch play out. Here's an invalid fair catch from the Ohio State vs Purdue game from last year.
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In this case though they determined the returner never possessed the ball. If he had picked it up, ran a few yards and then fumbled, they would have changed it.
 



Tully55 said:
Duh....my question refers to what was the ref watching. Its his job to watch the play as it develops, which includes whether or not he should blow the play dead. Also the review was initially whether or not DeJean stepped outof bounds, not whether or not there was a fair catch. They just happened to catch the invalid fair catch.
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No, they were reviewing for the invalid fair catch signal the entire time. It was the NBC crew that kept showing the sideline view assuming that is what they were looking at in the booth, completely unaware of the rule. NBC screwed up.
 

DarthGopher said:
No, they were reviewing for the invalid fair catch signal the entire time. It was the NBC crew that kept showing the sideline view assuming that is what they were looking at in the booth, completely unaware of the rule. NBC screwed up.
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Their guy they talked to for rules earlier in the game also had ZERO clue what he was talking about.

Like if you're going to call back to the studio for rules advice ... don't get an idiot.
 

GophersInIowa said:
In this case though they determined the returner never possessed the ball. If he had picked it up, ran a few yards and then fumbled, they would have changed it.
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Maybe. But my point was more that they didn't blow the play dead immediately at the invalid fair catch. My question is more around when the refs would stop play for an invalid fair catch. In the Gophers vs Iowa case, they didn't stop the PR while trying to return it. Why? I'll dig around a bit more as this is interesting stuff.
 

DarthGopher said:
No, they were reviewing for the invalid fair catch signal the entire time. It was the NBC crew that kept showing the sideline view assuming that is what they were looking at in the booth, completely unaware of the rule. NBC screwed up.
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Fwiw the radio guys were thinking the same thing. They had no clue until the teams were moving backwards.
 



stocker08 said:
They almost definitely had that planned out. Because really.....what's the downside for Iowa? Ball is dead where it's fielded regardless. Ferentz had an absolute shit eating grin on afterwards....like a plan worked out.
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Just like they almost got away with their ball swatting when we were trying to kneel it out. Iowa Football: It's only cheating if you get caught.
 

kisarazu said:
Maybe. But my point was more that they didn't blow the play dead immediately at the invalid fair catch. My question is more around when the refs would stop play for an invalid fair catch. In the Gophers vs Iowa case, they didn't stop the PR while trying to return it. Why? I'll dig around a bit more as this is interesting stuff.
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I think like any potential fumble, they now let it play out in case they’re wrong.
 


A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Their guy they talked to for rules earlier in the game also had ZERO clue what he was talking about.

Like if you're going to call back to the studio for rules advice ... don't get an idiot.
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It's been a big problem this year. The studio rules analysts are complete morons and confuse everyone
 



hungan1 said:
What a terrible way to lose a game.
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Wait? what? Lets review. Iowa's first points come off a 3rd and long heave/great catch down the sideline that probably had a 5% completion probability. Then their TD "drive" came when a Gopher player grabbed a facemask on a sack on 3rd down that would have forced a punt, they get to the red zone thanks to a PI on Walley, then they are stuffed repeatedly at the goal line and the refs call Nubin for a personal foul for knocking the ball away after 3rd down. Maybe Iowa gets 7 there, maybe they don't...but they were definitely getting 7 after that call. Gophers also miss a FG in the first half.

Now the second half. Completely dominated by Minnesota. Iowa was in the single digits for yardage for much of the half. Then, they make a clearly illegal motion on a punt return with a minute left in the game on a play where a Gopher missed a very easy tackle at that spot to begin with. Still, it wasn't a penalty so Iowa has the ball on like their own 45 with timeouts in their pocket and only needing a fg to win. They go backwards.

Want a terrible way to lose a game? Dominate a game like Minnesota did last year rushing for 300 yards but missing a chip shot FG, fumbling at the goal line, and dropping an interception in the red zone before finally throwing your own interception on what should have been a game sealing drive like Minnesota did against Iowa last year.

Iowa would have been insanely lucky (again) against Minnesota (again) to win that game.
 

DarthGopher said:
That just tells me he knew exactly what he was doing and was either trying to draw an unsportsmanlike hit OR get the gunners to ease up so he could field it and run.
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Some guy said:
perhaps they should change the rule, but that is, and has been, the rule
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If they change the rule, it should be to add a penalty to the infraction. This is a player safety issue and should not be taken advantage of as a cheap way to the kick return team to back off, which is exactly what he did.
 


EG#9 said:
Wait? what? Lets review. Iowa's first points come off a 3rd and long heave/great catch down the sideline that probably had a 5% completion probability. Then their TD "drive" came when a Gopher player grabbed a facemask on a sack on 3rd down that would have forced a punt, they get to the red zone thanks to a PI on Walley, then they are stuffed repeatedly at the goal line and the refs call Nubin for a personal foul for knocking the ball away after 3rd down. Maybe Iowa gets 7 there, maybe they don't...but they were definitely getting 7 after that call. Gophers also miss a FG in the first half.

Now the second half. Completely dominated by Minnesota. Iowa was in the single digits for yardage for much of the half. Then, they make a clearly illegal motion on a punt return with a minute left in the game on a play where a Gopher missed a very easy tackle at that spot to begin with. Still, it wasn't a penalty so Iowa has the ball on like their own 45 with timeouts in their pocket and only needing a fg to win. They go backwards.

Want a terrible way to lose a game? Dominate a game like Minnesota did last year rushing for 300 yards but missing a chip shot FG, fumbling at the goal line, and dropping an interception in the red zone before finally throwing your own interception on what should have been a game sealing drive like Minnesota did against Iowa last year.

Iowa would have been insanely lucky (again) against Minnesota (again) to win that game.
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It is a great win for the Gophers!
EG#9 said:
Wait? what? Lets review. Iowa's first points come off a 3rd and long heave/great catch down the sideline that probably had a 5% completion probability. Then their TD "drive" came when a Gopher player grabbed a facemask on a sack on 3rd down that would have forced a punt, they get to the red zone thanks to a PI on Walley, then they are stuffed repeatedly at the goal line and the refs call Nubin for a personal foul for knocking the ball away after 3rd down. Maybe Iowa gets 7 there, maybe they don't...but they were definitely getting 7 after that call. Gophers also miss a FG in the first half.

Now the second half. Completely dominated by Minnesota. Iowa was in the single digits for yardage for much of the half. Then, they make a clearly illegal motion on a punt return with a minute left in the game on a play where a Gopher missed a very easy tackle at that spot to begin with. Still, it wasn't a penalty so Iowa has the ball on like their own 45 with timeouts in their pocket and only needing a fg to win. They go backwards.

Want a terrible way to lose a game? Dominate a game like Minnesota did last year rushing for 300 yards but missing a chip shot FG, fumbling at the goal line, and dropping an interception in the red zone before finally throwing your own interception on what should have been a game sealing drive like Minnesota did against Iowa last year.

Iowa would have been insanely lucky (again) against Minnesota (again) to win that game.
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Yes, it is terrible for Iowa and great for Minnesota! Finally, after nine games Floyd is home.

109November 14, 2015Iowa City, IANo. 5 Iowa40–35
110October 8, 2016Minneapolis, MNIowa14–7
111October 28, 2017Iowa City, IAIowa17–10
112October 6, 2018Minneapolis, MNIowa48–31
113November 16, 2019Iowa City, IANo. 20 Iowa23–19
114November 13, 2020Minneapolis, MNIowa35–7
115November 13, 2021Iowa City, IANo. 20 Iowa27–22
116November 19, 2022Minneapolis, MNIowa13–10
117October 21, 2023Iowa City, IAMinnesota12–10
Series: Minnesota leads 63–52–2[
 


Remember that before this one call (which was correct), Iowa benefited from a whole bunch of judgment calls, including:

  • A 30 yard Iowa pass play to set up a FG on the first drive where the ball touched the ground but was inconclusive was OK
  • A 35 yard Gopher pass play early in the 3rd was called back where the ball grazed the ground similarly but inconclusive was deemed not OK
  • A critical Iowa 3rd and long late in the 4th where the ball bounced so much you could see it momentarily change shape, but was OK and called a catch.
 

It's obvious it wasn't a fair catch signal as proven by the fact DeJean took off with the ball after the catch and the Gopher whiffing tackler tried for the stop. But that's not the point of the rule which was called correctly. You can't make a signal which could be interpreted as a fair catch plea. Still was impressive how well DeJean plays football. Wish we had him.
 

EG#9 said:
Wait? what? Lets review. Iowa's first points come off a 3rd and long heave/great catch down the sideline that probably had a 5% completion probability. Then their TD "drive" came when a Gopher player grabbed a facemask on a sack on 3rd down that would have forced a punt, they get to the red zone thanks to a PI on Walley, then they are stuffed repeatedly at the goal line and the refs call Nubin for a personal foul for knocking the ball away after 3rd down. Maybe Iowa gets 7 there, maybe they don't...but they were definitely getting 7 after that call. Gophers also miss a FG in the first half.

Now the second half. Completely dominated by Minnesota. Iowa was in the single digits for yardage for much of the half. Then, they make a clearly illegal motion on a punt return with a minute left in the game on a play where a Gopher missed a very easy tackle at that spot to begin with. Still, it wasn't a penalty so Iowa has the ball on like their own 45 with timeouts in their pocket and only needing a fg to win. They go backwards.

Want a terrible way to lose a game? Dominate a game like Minnesota did last year rushing for 300 yards but missing a chip shot FG, fumbling at the goal line, and dropping an interception in the red zone before finally throwing your own interception on what should have been a game sealing drive like Minnesota did against Iowa last year.

Iowa would have been insanely lucky (again) against Minnesota (again) to win that game.
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I'm old and have periodic brain fog, but wasn't a few years ago that Fleck got flagged for running out to check on Tyler Johnson after he got clocked? I seem to recall that came at a key part of the game and really cost the Gophers a chance at winning.

Here's my deal on DeJean. I'm sure he gets all the "he's like having a coach on the field . . . blah . . . blah . . . blah." Maybe he should concentrate on first catching the ball instead of directing his teammates around while the ball is in the air. Instead, he does this Whirling Dervish imitation for whatever reason and rightfully gets called for it as the rule is currently applied.

Fortune smiled upon us, but I can think of so many times that it hasn't so I'm glad the cosmos decided things should go our way.
 



Holy Man said:
If they change the rule, it should be to add a penalty to the infraction. This is a player safety issue and should not be taken advantage of as a cheap way to the kick return team to back off, which is exactly what he did.
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It should just be a delay of game.
 

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