Institutional Perspective

Donate To GopherHole
Bob_Loblaw said:
You have to understand though that if Rich gets caught cheating somewhere, he's in HUGE trouble. It will forever haunt him and force him back to the assistant coaching ranks / lower division schools. Look at guys like Sampson and Pearl, their careers are ruined over cheating, and they were established coaches. If Rich has any desire to use MN as a stepping stone, he knows he has to do it the right way. The NCAA gets you, those sanctions follow you.

Another thing to keep in mind. . .
I think Pitino gets crap for being dirty off of nothing but appearance. He looks a bit greasy and if some slick haired guy like him tried to sell me a car, I'd be skeptical. However, the truth is that Pitino runs a clean program. Donovan runs a clean program. They don't fill their rosters with 1 and dones, they have veteran teams. This isn't Calipari we are talking about.
Click to expand...

That's a fair point, but sometimes people take those risks only considering the upside and not the damage they might cause to their career if they're caught. Hopefully he knows it's not worth it, but we won't know until he starts coaching (or when the PiPress reports violations the day of our tournament game).

I agree on the Rick Pitino part, has he ever been caught with any violations? (Honestly asking, I don't remember any.) It seems to me he runs as clean of programs as Tubby does.
 

... said:
That's a fair point, but sometimes people take those risks only considering the upside and not the damage they might cause to their career if they're caught. Hopefully he knows it's not worth it, but we won't know until he starts coaching (or when the PiPress reports violations the day of our tournament game).

I agree on the Rick Pitino part, has he ever been caught with any violations? (Honestly asking, I don't remember any.) It seems to me he runs as clean of programs as Tubby does.
Click to expand...

There were allegations when he was a young coach at the U of Hawaii. Not sure if there were sanctions.
 

The thread name is great..."Institutional Perspective". That was a borderline crazy, windy path you took us on. I salute you.
 

jamiche said:
Like a lot of people my first reaction to Rich was WTF. It was both surprise and skepticism. Then I started to read about him and I watched the nicely produced (as they all are) video that Bleed posted and I got a little bit jazzed about him. Like most hires, he's the anti-predessessor which, in this case, means that he's young, energetic, focused, talented, driven and probably charismatic. However, the more I think about it the more there is something about the situation that bugs me that has nothing to do with Pitino, "X's" and "O's," recruiting, etc. It goes something like this: If you look at the cast of characters in this little drama, from Kaler down, there isn't a single player who gives a damn about the U or the state of MN. Each of them is focused on career and personal advancement and has absolutely no institutional perspective, loyalty or concern. Bruininks cared about the U and the state. Maturi was incompetent, but part of his incompetence was that he cared maybe a little too much about the little guy, the "off sports." From an institutional perspective the right hires would have been Flip, for sure, and, maybe, Shaka, because he seems to be a pretty loyal guy in a disloyal business.

So we are making our proverbial deal with the devil and it will go something like this within the next three years (get ready for 1997, folks):

1. The gophers will go to the elite eight with a crop of recruits that haven't been seen around here since Courtney James and Bobby Jackson and it will be a helluva lot of fun;
2. Richard, Norwood and Mike will ride the wave out of here;
3. The NCAA will ride the next wave in here, eventually taking Eric out to sea.

It will be far more interesting than the last six years with Tubby but the price will be very high and not choosing Flip, once Shaka said no, will cost the U a great deal in the long run. Flip could have gotten the program to the same place, with a practice facility and without cheating.
Click to expand...

So because you have a perception (not sure what you are basing it on though) that the U president, AD and new basketball head coach don't care about MN or the U and are simply in it for themselves you have come to the conclusion that they will cheat and leave the U in scandal? What exactly are you basing this on? None of the 3 you have mentioned have been considered risky when it comes to cheating so where are you coming up with this bunk?
 

"... the more I think about it the more there is something about the situation that bugs me that has nothing to do with Pitino, "X's" and "O's," recruiting, etc. It goes something like this: If you look at the cast of characters in this little drama, from Kaler down, there isn't a single player who gives a damn about the U or the state of MN. Each of them is focused on career and personal advancement and has absolutely no institutional perspective..." jamiche


I am especially "red-flagged" by the "take over of the U of M Athletic Department..." by the VCU athletic department complete with the v-7's "truth...light & way..."
program. A little like "HAL" in 2001: a Space odyssey it would seem to me that the v-7 program drives our a. d. and his Ellis alter-ego. I guess, as a football fan first: I am rather upset that so many of our athletic department's KEY employees came here directly from VCU, a college without a football program.

I get the feeling that Kaler feels as though he is in control...but...he is merely along for the ride when it comes to the Athletic Department and his new norwood And the new norwood seemed somewhat lost until he hired his old Ellis to reunite with him in Minnesota. So, the athletic department is being driven by two VCU V-7 Missionaries and zealots who are more focused on the system's growth outside the confines of it's birth place and creation at VCU into the more mainstream of the Upper Mid-West and the much larger B1G Conference.


Some who have witnessed first the Musselman problems...then the loss of Institutional Control issues of the Dutcher Era and finally the academic cheating scandal brought on by the closed culture within the athletic department surrounding the Basketball Program can not help noticing the influence of the VCU migration and the v-7 colonization that now has complete reign in the athletic department at the U of M. Complete with the retention of the now retired former AD. The "silent" contract extensions. The complete blanket of security surrounding controversial actions and the sudden call for "bonding from the state for a huge issuance of debt that very well may cause a rift between the state legislators and the chief administrator of the U of M when he pleads his case for wanting and needing more money from the legislators.

We have suddenly become a University of Minnesota Athletic Department that has assumed MORE of a VCU identity, value system and way of doing business.

Yes, I am concerned. I may not be correct, but I am concerned by what I am seeing but NOT hearing from the athletic department at the University of Minnesota...

; 0 (
 


imthewalrus said:
Some who have witnessed first the Musselman problems...then the loss of Institutional Control issues of the Dutcher Era and finally the academic cheating scandal brought on by the closed culture within the athletic department surrounding the Basketball Program can not help noticing the influence of the VCU migration and the v-7 colonization that now has complete reign in the athletic department at the U of M.

We have suddenly become a University of Minnesota Athletic Department that has assumed MORE of a VCU identity, value system and way of doing business.


; 0 (
Click to expand...

So you're saying that you've witnessed the Athletic Department at MN cheat all of these times and you're concerned that we no longer have a MN identity? Didn't you just say that our identity is as cheaters?
 

imthewalrus said:
"... the more I think about it the more there is something about the situation that bugs me that has nothing to do with Pitino, "X's" and "O's," recruiting, etc. It goes something like this: If you look at the cast of characters in this little drama, from Kaler down, there isn't a single player who gives a damn about the U or the state of MN. Each of them is focused on career and personal advancement and has absolutely no institutional perspective..." jamiche


I am especially "red-flagged" by the "take over of the U of M Athletic Department..." by the VCU athletic department complete with the v-7's "truth...light & way..."
program. A little like "HAL" in 2001: a Space odyssey it would seem to me that the v-7 program drives our a. d. and his Ellis alter-ego. I guess, as a football fan first: I am rather upset that so many of our athletic department's KEY employees came here directly from VCU, a college without a football program.

I get the feeling that Kaler feels as though he is in control...but...he is merely along for the ride when it comes to the Athletic Department and his new norwood And the new norwood seemed somewhat lost until he hired his old Ellis to reunite with him in Minnesota. So, the athletic department is being driven by two VCU V-7 Missionaries and zealots who are more focused on the system's growth outside the confines of it's birth place and creation at VCU into the more mainstream of the Upper Mid-West and the much larger B1G Conference.


Some who have witnessed first the Musselman problems...then the loss of Institutional Control issues of the Dutcher Era and finally the academic cheating scandal brought on by the closed culture within the athletic department surrounding the Basketball Program can not help noticing the influence of the VCU migration and the v-7 colonization that now has complete reign in the athletic department at the U of M. Complete with the retention of the now retired former AD. The "silent" contract extensions. The complete blanket of security surrounding controversial actions and the sudden call for "bonding from the state for a huge issuance of debt that very well may cause a rift between the state legislators and the chief administrator of the U of M when he pleads his case for wanting and needing more money from the legislators.

We have suddenly become a University of Minnesota Athletic Department that has assumed MORE of a VCU identity, value system and way of doing business.

Yes, I am concerned. I may not be correct, but I am concerned by what I am seeing but NOT hearing from the athletic department at the University of Minnesota...

; 0 (
Click to expand...
Yes the Minnesota identity and value system? has really been the high ground. And now the VCU aliens have taken over.:confused:
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
So you're saying that you've witnessed the Athletic Department at MN cheat all of these times and you're concerned that we no longer have a MN identity? Didn't you just say that our identity is as cheaters?
Click to expand...

Thank you, Bob.

Eventually all bags of hot air will talk themselves into a corner.

Steve Martin's Ramblin' Man
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htTLWC1unMc
 

Blackhammer said:
Yes the Minnesota identity and value system? has really been the high ground. And now the VCU aliens have taken over.:confused:
Click to expand...

You have been warned. The Invasion of the VCU Athletic Department Snatchers is upon us. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
 





CentralGopher said:
So because you have a perception (not sure what you are basing it on though) that the U president, AD and new basketball head coach don't care about MN or the U and are simply in it for themselves you have come to the conclusion that they will cheat and leave the U in scandal? What exactly are you basing this on? None of the 3 you have mentioned have been considered risky when it comes to cheating so where are you coming up with this bunk?
Click to expand...

Having been through the various scandals at the U over the years it makes sense to always have your antennae up in these situations. If you look at this particular set of circumstances all of the major players are new to the university and three of them (Teague, Ellis and Pitino) are known to be highly ambitious in what everyone agrees is a pretty skanky business. Let's assume that they are the most ethical people on the planet. Just in case our assumptions are wrong, it doesn't appear that there are sufficient checks and balances in place because the president's office is too far removed and the consequences of getting caught only matter if you think you are going to get caught.

As I said, I think there will be an infusion of energy in the program, the "motion free" offense will be a thing of the past and Pitino will give us a fun three or so years. It's beyond that, that concerns me.
 




Bob_Loblaw said:
So you're saying that you've witnessed the Athletic Department at MN cheat all of these times and you're concerned that we no longer have a MN identity? Didn't you just say that our identity is as cheaters?
Click to expand...

What I am saying is that I have lived through 3 major scandals within the U athletic department and all three were specifically instigated from within the basketball program. I am also saying that the VCU connection is interesting because the new norwood and his ellis have been focused entirely on basketball. Their v-7 toy is a basketball related toy. VCU didn't even sponsor football. I NEVER trust an ad who has had no MAJOR connection to football Bob....(Ha...Ha...Ha...joke...get it?)
However, the Gophers have not had a football man as the AD since Tom Moe was here. Unfortunately, I have ZERO input. I did warn people about the prexy b, badger joel macturi, Brewster brew-ball fiasco...and continued to warn about some of the smooth moves prexy b and bjm were making...but...alas and alark: the people who now complain about them paid no heed...and some even defended macturi... ; 0 )

It is the hoops program that always has had the major problems. It makes me damn nervous Bob. It's very difficult to trust this norwood character. He is after all an athletic director just chomping at the bit to get more assistant coaches to hook athletic directors up with. Just a hunch Bob. Like I said, I might be wrong...BUT...about every 10 to 15 years it seems as though the hoops program loses itself and it's direction. Let's see: Musselman blew apart in 1975...Dutch lost control in 1986...Clem-gate was hit the fan in 1999. I'm getting nervous...stay watchful and prexy k...you had best hire someone to keep a close eye on your new norwood, et al in the hoops program. Remember...it always seems to come undone in the hoops program...It's been 14 years now...let the prexy beware...

But the NEXT AD really does need to be a Football Man Bob....

By the way...nice "gottcha" there Bob...very nice, indeed...I stepped right into that one and had it coming... PLUS ONE for you...minus five for me...

; 0 )
 

I guess I'm the "sheltered" one, but poor jamiche needs someone with Minnesota ties in our Athletic Department for them to function properly...but, most importantly for him to feel more secure about the situation at hand.
 



Shawn Bradley Guy said:
I guess I'm the "sheltered" one, but poor jamiche needs someone with Minnesota ties in our Athletic Department for them to function properly...but, most importantly for him to feel more secure about the situation at hand.
Click to expand...

Mussleman
Holtz/Darville
Dutcher
Haskins

Each one set the university basketball and football program back several years. A little caution is warranted.
 

Shawn Bradley Guy said:
I guess I'm the "sheltered" one, but poor jamiche needs someone with Minnesota ties in our Athletic Department for them to function properly...but, most importantly for him to feel more secure about the situation at hand.
Click to expand...

By the way Pittino referenced how important it is to have strong ties to Minnesota and get the best local kids. I think he'll do a good job. Hope you don't get all "insecure" if he hires an Assistant with a Minnesota connection.
 

I would think Norwood has already shown, with Kill, and Tubby he expects top shelf and if I were Pam B. and Don Luchia I would be looking over my shoulder. You do it by the book and get results, or good bye.
 


littlebigboy said:
I would think Norwood has already shown, with Kill, and Tubby he expects top shelf and if I were Pam B. and Don Luchia I would be looking over my shoulder. You do it by the book and get results, or good bye.
Click to expand...

What did Teague "already shown" with kill???
 

He went thru the total program grades, goals, methods, attitudes and interviews with players and staff. If he wouldn't have gotten the right answers Kill would be looking too.
 

i don't understand the love affair with Flip. I know he is an alum, that doesn't make him more qualified. He did nothing with the Timber-wolves, inherited a winner at Detriot and look what happened there. Give the guy a chance, be optimistic, maybe he turns Minnesota Basketball into what we all want, cream of the Big Ten, stranger things have happened.
 

littlebigboy said:
He went thru the total program grades, goals, methods, attitudes and interviews with players and staff. If he wouldn't have gotten the right answers Kill would be looking too.
Click to expand...

Maturi hired kill so wouldn't the praise go to maturi?
 

Maturi did hire Kill, but when NT came in he went thru the whole pgm. starting with FB.
 

Part of the reason Tubby got fired was the direction of the pgm, he did the same with FB
 

littlebigboy said:
Part of the reason Tubby got fired was the direction of the pgm, he did the same with FB
Click to expand...

You have really put Teague on a pedestal! I like Teague and all but I'm not willing to say he is the saving grace, he hasn't been here long enough
 

Iceland12 said:
By the way Pittino referenced how important it is to have strong ties to Minnesota and get the best local kids. I think he'll do a good job. Hope you don't get all "insecure" if he hires an Assistant with a Minnesota connection.
Click to expand...

By the way, this was "Pitino's" introductory press conference. All of these are love fests for the home state. Remember when Brewster was going to "lock down the borders" with his recruiting. Minnesotans want to hear this crap, even if it isn't true. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there isn't an assistant on staff with a local tie right away...maybe he gets one down the road, but he's going to surround himself with people he trusts first.
 

Shawn Bradley Guy said:
By the way, this was "Pitino's" introductory press conference. All of these are love fests for the home state. Remember when Brewster was going to "lock down the borders" with his recruiting. Minnesotans want to hear this crap, even if it isn't true. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there isn't an assistant on staff with a local tie right away...maybe he gets one down the road, but he's going to surround himself with people he trusts first.
Click to expand...

So your'e saying there's no basketball talent coming out of High Schools in Minnesota. Okay but that may be a rather "lonely" position.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom