Institutional Perspective

[jamiche]

Like a lot of people my first reaction to Rich was WTF. It was both surprise and skepticism. Then I started to read about him and I watched the nicely produced (as they all are) video that Bleed posted and I got a little bit jazzed about him. Like most hires, he's the anti-predessessor which, in this case, means that he's young, energetic, focused, talented, driven and probably charismatic. However, the more I think about it the more there is something about the situation that bugs me that has nothing to do with Pitino, "X's" and "O's," recruiting, etc. It goes something like this: If you look at the cast of characters in this little drama, from Kaler down, there isn't a single player who gives a damn about the U or the state of MN. Each of them is focused on career and personal advancement and has absolutely no institutional perspective, loyalty or concern. Bruininks cared about the U and the state. Maturi was incompetent, but part of his incompetence was that he cared maybe a little too much about the little guy, the "off sports." From an institutional perspective the right hires would have been Flip, for sure, and, maybe, Shaka, because he seems to be a pretty loyal guy in a disloyal business.

So we are making our proverbial deal with the devil and it will go something like this within the next three years (get ready for 1997, folks):

1. The gophers will go to the elite eight with a crop of recruits that haven't been seen around here since Courtney James and Bobby Jackson and it will be a helluva lot of fun;
2. Richard, Norwood and Mike will ride the wave out of here;
3. The NCAA will ride the next wave in here, eventually taking Eric out to sea.

It will be far more interesting than the last six years with Tubby but the price will be very high and not choosing Flip, once Shaka said no, will cost the U a great deal in the long run. Flip could have gotten the program to the same place, with a practice facility and without cheating.

 

[GopherinPhilly]

Why does this end in cheating and scandal? Why can't it end in growth, success and advancement?

What I don't understand is why the idea of someone coming here, being successful and then getting a better job is terrible...or god forbid, signs an extension and develops some loyalty.

Let's just remember, the only Coach in my lifetime to leave us for greener pastures has been Lou Holtz. Every other coach has been fired or resigned under protest. Where was the U's loyalty to all those coaches? This is a business...a big business and the best thing about Teague is he knows it and runs it as such.

Fans have loyalty and love, executives have responsibilities and duties.

 

[tinyarch]

Nope. We're getting the Bill Musselman era without the cheating. (At least that's what I'm telling myself...)

 

[GophersOnTheRise]

Some wild and baseless assumptions here. For a second I thought you had something positive to say.

 

[scools12]

The OP another in a long list of "you can't make the stuff up".

 

[panndder]

Kaler, the rudder of this whole operation, went to grad school here. Teague and Ellis arguably place more importance on their reputation - finding good coaches in the assistant ranks - than their current or potential future gigs. I'm giving Pitino the benefit of the doubt.

 

[UofMdad]

Like a lot of people my first reaction to Rich was WTF. It was both surprise and skepticism. Then I started to read about him and I watched the nicely produced (as they all are) video that Bleed posted and I got a little bit jazzed about him. Like most hires, he's the anti-predessessor which, in this case, means that he's young, energetic, focused, talented, driven and probably charismatic. However, the more I think about it the more there is something about the situation that bugs me that has nothing to do with Pitino, "X's" and "O's," recruiting, etc. It goes something like this: If you look at the cast of characters in this little drama, from Kaler down, there isn't a single player who gives a damn about the U or the state of MN. Each of them is focused on career and personal advancement and has absolutely no institutional perspective, loyalty or concern. Bruininks cared about the U and the state. Maturi was incompetent, but part of his incompetence was that he cared maybe a little too much about the little guy, the "off sports." From an institutional perspective the right hires would have been Flip, for sure, and, maybe, Shaka, because he seems to be a pretty loyal guy in a disloyal business.

So we are making our proverbial deal with the devil and it will go something like this within the next three years (get ready for 1997, folks):

1. The gophers will go to the elite eight with a crop of recruits that haven't been seen around here since Courtney James and Bobby Jackson and it will be a helluva lot of fun;
2. Richard, Norwood and Mike will ride the wave out of here;
3. The NCAA will ride the next wave in here, eventually taking Eric out to sea.

It will be far more interesting than the last six years with Tubby but the price will be very high and not choosing Flip, once Shaka said no, will cost the U a great deal in the long run. Flip could have gotten the program to the same place, with a practice facility and without cheating.

A new era is here for the U. Let's look forward to some stability and consistency in the W column as we go forward.

 

[NateDawgUM]

The more somebody cares about trying to succeed, the more likely they are to succeed. Once you get swallowed up into a massive institution where you become faceless, the more likely you are to start slacking.

Yet somehow you think this is a bad thing. Minnesota mentality, I suppose.

 

[BarnBoy]

"Success for Minnesota" and "success for Kaler/Teague/Ellis" are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

 

[year of the gopher]

Not sure where you get the idea that Kaler doesn't care about the U. He is an alum and a huge gopher sports fan. This is probably his dream job as a university president.

 

[Governor Sibley]

If you look at the cast of characters in this little drama, from Kaler down, there isn't a single player who gives a damn about the U or the state of MN. Each of them is focused on career and personal advancement and has absolutely no institutional perspective, loyalty or concern. Bruininks cared about the U and the state. Maturi was incompetent, but part of his incompetence was that he cared maybe a little too much about the little guy, the "off sports."

I hear thee.

This bothers me to no end.

There's no way to eliminate this. But there is a way to mitigate it.

 

[NateDawgUM]

I hear thee.

This bothers me to no end.

There's no way to eliminate this. But there is a way to mitigate it.

Says the guy who grew up in North Dakota, and has 35 college degrees yet zero from Minnesota.

 

[jamiche]

I think it will be an interesting and probably fun run in the near term with Pitino. I just don't have a good feeling about the long term consequences of this decision. I hope that I'm wrong.

I completely agreed with the decision to fire Tubby and to do it quickly.

 

[Rouser4eVA]

The more somebody cares about trying to succeed, the more likely they are to succeed. Once you get swallowed up into a massive institution where you become faceless, the more likely you are to start slacking.

Yet somehow you think this is a bad thing. Minnesota mentality, I suppose.

Ah yes, the "Minnesota Mentality". We are a snake-bitten bunch, to be sure. Outside of the Twins in 87 & 91 and the repeat titles for Gopher Hockey in 02-03, to be a fan of Minnesota Men's Athletics, professional or Gophers, has been an exercise in painful futility. Sometimes good, never great, often bad.

As a fellow Minnesotan, I can envision the OP's prophecy playing out in painful detail. It's really not a stretch to this jaded Minnesotan's perspective. I can imagine that Reusse himself is just a product of this environment. He has to opine and reflect on the horror that is big-time athletics in Minnesota.

But for now, I will just bask in this alien concept called "optimism." I will let it flow through me and caress my neurons. (Yes, I did just say that! Don't stop me, I'm in the zone.)

Go Gophers!

 

[SelectionSunday]

I can't imagine going through life, always expecting (or imagining) the worst will happen. Life's hard enough as it is.

Looking forward to a new era of Gopher hoops. Let's see what it brings.

 

[Some Day...Is Coming!]

Like a lot of people my first reaction to Rich was WTF. It was both surprise and skepticism. Then I started to read about him and I watched the nicely produced (as they all are) video that Bleed posted and I got a little bit jazzed about him. Like most hires, he's the anti-predessessor which, in this case, means that he's young, energetic, focused, talented, driven and probably charismatic. However, the more I think about it the more there is something about the situation that bugs me that has nothing to do with Pitino, "X's" and "O's," recruiting, etc. It goes something like this: If you look at the cast of characters in this little drama, from Kaler down, there isn't a single player who gives a damn about the U or the state of MN. Each of them is focused on career and personal advancement and has absolutely no institutional perspective, loyalty or concern. Bruininks cared about the U and the state. Maturi was incompetent, but part of his incompetence was that he cared maybe a little too much about the little guy, the "off sports." From an institutional perspective the right hires would have been Flip, for sure, and, maybe, Shaka, because he seems to be a pretty loyal guy in a disloyal business.

So we are making our proverbial deal with the devil and it will go something like this within the next three years (get ready for 1997, folks):

1. The gophers will go to the elite eight with a crop of recruits that haven't been seen around here since Courtney James and Bobby Jackson and it will be a helluva lot of fun;
2. Richard, Norwood and Mike will ride the wave out of here;
3. The NCAA will ride the next wave in here, eventually taking Eric out to sea.

It will be far more interesting than the last six years with Tubby but the price will be very high and not choosing Flip, once Shaka said no, will cost the U a great deal in the long run. Flip could have gotten the program to the same place, with a practice facility and without cheating.

WOW!

 

[MadtownGopher]

WOW!

+1

The OP is definitely added to my ignore list.

 

[gophmeister]

What moronic drivel.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

There is a segment of this pro Flip crowd that is completely unhinged. I've never seen anything like it, they are paranoid, illogical and they like to write fiction that they attempt to pass off as a logical opinion or truth. This is a bizarre post.

Long live the Cult of Flip.

We all know that he wouldn't have ever been involved in anything dirty. I mean his time in the NBA working directly with McHale every single day never led to any sanctions on the Wolves, except of course them giving up all of their 1st round picks for what felt like a decade. Let me guess? He wasn't involved?

 

[jamiche]

Ah yes, the "Minnesota Mentality". We are a snake-bitten bunch, to be sure. Outside of the Twins in 87 & 91 and the repeat titles for Gopher Hockey in 02-03, to be a fan of Minnesota Men's Athletics, professional or Gophers, has been an exercise in painful futility. Sometimes good, never great, often bad.

As a fellow Minnesotan, I can envision the OP's prophecy playing out in painful detail. It's really not a stretch to this jaded Minnesotan's perspective. I can imagine that Reusse himself is just a product of this environment. He has to opine and reflect on the horror that is big-time athletics in Minnesota.

But for now, I will just bask in this alien concept called "optimism." I will let it flow through me and caress my neurons. (Yes, I did just say that! Don't stop me, I'm in the zone.)

Go Gophers!

I disagree with Reusse and I think that he was way over the top. I think that this coach will win a lot of games while he's here and there will be a nice buzz at the Barn. I hope that Teague will do what is necessary to make sure that the program stays clean, which sometimes means saying no to someone who is focused solely on generating results that will get him to the next job.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I hear thee.

This bothers me to no end.

There's no way to eliminate this. But there is a way to mitigate it.

Don't let it bother you. Even if you're fear of the outsiders makes you nervous, always keep in mind we have parallel goals. Kaler, Teague and Pitino all need to do the very best for the U. It doesn't matter (to me) if their reasons are for the love of the great state of MN or if their reasons are selfish. The point is, what's good for them, is good for us and vice versa.

Look at guys like Pearl and Sampson, their careers are way worse off than their respective universities because of their trouble. Doing things the right way, getting wins, and building the program is their ONLY goal, luckily for us, it's ours too.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I disagree with Reusse and I think that he was way over the top. I think that this coach will win a lot of games while he's here and there will be a nice buzz at the Barn. I hope that Teague will do what is necessary to make sure that the program stays clean, which sometimes means saying no to someone who is focused solely on generating results that will get him to the next job.

What makes you think he'd be dirty and what makes you think Flip would be clean?

 

[jamiche]

There is a segment of this pro Flip crowd that is completely unhinged. I've never seen anything like it, they are paranoid, illogical and they like to write fiction that they attempt to pass off as a logical opinion or truth. This is a bizarre post.

Long live the Cult of Flip.

We all know that he wouldn't have ever been involved in anything dirty. I mean his time in the NBA working directly with McHale every single day never led to any sanctions on the Wolves, except of course them giving up all of their 1st round picks for what felt like a decade. Let me guess? He wasn't involved?

It amuses and amazes me that the one name that rarely comes up in that fiasco was the one that belongs to the person who was calling the shots: Glen Taylor. We have no idea of the extent of Flip or McHale's involvement. Could have been a lot. Could have been a little. We do know it was Taylor's money and he has never been a hands off guy. Taylor was the one who was trying to screw his fellow NBA owners (his partners, really). Part of the reason that McHale lasted so long in the organization is that he took the fall for Taylor. Joe Smith was Taylor's deal.

 

[jamiche]

What makes you think he'd be dirty and what makes you think Flip would be clean?

There's no way to know for sure but, if you look at the circumstances, Flip has less to prove at this point in his life (and a long term allegiance to the state and the University) so he would be less likely to take short cuts. He still has enough to prove that I think that he would have been the best option behind Shaka or Stevens. Rich is going places, which is good and doesn't mean that he's dirty. It does mean that somebody has to be making sure that his personal ambition isn't clouding his judgement.

 

[Iceland12]

Ah yes, the "Minnesota Mentality". We are a snake-bitten bunch, to be sure. Outside of the Twins in 87 & 91 and the repeat titles for Gopher Hockey in 02-03, to be a fan of Minnesota Men's Athletics, professional or Gophers, has been an exercise in painful futility. Sometimes good, never great, often bad.

As a fellow Minnesotan, I can envision the OP's prophecy playing out in painful detail. It's really not a stretch to this jaded Minnesotan's perspective. I can imagine that Reusse himself is just a product of this environment. He has to opine and reflect on the horror that is big-time athletics in Minnesota.

But for now, I will just bask in this alien concept called "optimism." I will let it flow through me and caress my neurons. (Yes, I did just say that! Don't stop me, I'm in the zone.)

Go Gophers!

Yep, knowing the history that's a very reasonable approach.

 

[Iceland12]

It amuses and amazes me that the one name that rarely comes up in that fiasco was the one that belongs to the person who was calling the shots: Glen Taylor. We have no idea of the extent of Flip or McHale's involvement. Could have been a lot. Could have been a little. We do know it was Taylor's money and he has never been a hands off guy. Taylor was the one who was trying to screw his fellow NBA owners (his partners, really). Part of the reason that McHale lasted so long in the organization is that he took the fall for Taylor. Joe Smith was Taylor's deal.

How very true and oddly enough Taylor has said it was all his call in the first place; many times in fact. Though you should give Wolves GM Kevin Garnett co-credit for the Joe Smith deal

Now let's all hope that Mr.Pitino gets off on the right foot, brings some good guys in and stays here a long, long time.

 

[...]

There's no way to know for sure but, if you look at the circumstances, Flip has less to prove at this point in his life (and a long term allegiance to the state and the University) so he would be less likely to take short cuts. He still has enough to prove that I think that he would have been the best option behind Shaka or Stevens. Rich is going places, which is good and doesn't mean that he's dirty. It does mean that somebody has to be making sure that his personal ambition isn't clouding his judgement.

You could also say that Flip would've had higher expectations and he might've cut a few corners so he could be the hometown hero and win immediately. It's really impossible to know how he would've coached, and it's impossible to know how Pitino will coach. Right now we just have to hope and trust that Kaler, Teague, and Pitino want to build the program the right way.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

It amuses and amazes me that the one name that rarely comes up in that fiasco was the one that belongs to the person who was calling the shots: Glen Taylor. We have no idea of the extent of Flip or McHale's involvement. Could have been a lot. Could have been a little. We do know it was Taylor's money and he has never been a hands off guy. Taylor was the one who was trying to screw his fellow NBA owners (his partners, really). Part of the reason that McHale lasted so long in the organization is that he took the fall for Taylor. Joe Smith was Taylor's deal.

I completely agree. I think amongst most die hard Wolves fans, we've always blamed Taylor as well. Those three made decisions together on just about everything. It's one of the main reasons why Flip's name has been floated around so much as a possible GM with the Wolves. Those two worked together (with McHale) during the entire process.

Most people think that's why McHale got a long leash for so many years. It's probably why there seemed to be so much animosity between Flip and McHale when Flip was fired (probably deservedly so). It was fiasco and all three of them were in on the cheating (4 if you include J. Smith).

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

There's no way to know for sure but, if you look at the circumstances, Flip has less to prove at this point in his life (and a long term allegiance to the state and the University) so he would be less likely to take short cuts. He still has enough to prove that I think that he would have been the best option behind Shaka or Stevens. Rich is going places, which is good and doesn't mean that he's dirty. It does mean that somebody has to be making sure that his personal ambition isn't clouding his judgement.

You have to understand though that if Rich gets caught cheating somewhere, he's in HUGE trouble. It will forever haunt him and force him back to the assistant coaching ranks / lower division schools. Look at guys like Sampson and Pearl, their careers are ruined over cheating, and they were established coaches. If Rich has any desire to use MN as a stepping stone, he knows he has to do it the right way. The NCAA gets you, those sanctions follow you.

Another thing to keep in mind. . .
I think Pitino gets crap for being dirty off of nothing but appearance. He looks a bit greasy and if some slick haired guy like him tried to sell me a car, I'd be skeptical. However, the truth is that Pitino runs a clean program. Donovan runs a clean program. They don't fill their rosters with 1 and dones, they have veteran teams. This isn't Calipari we are talking about.

 

[jamiche]

You could also say that Flip would've had higher expectations and he might've cut a few corners so he could be the hometown hero and win immediately. It's really impossible to know how he would've coached, and it's impossible to know how Pitino will coach. Right now we just have to hope and trust that Kaler, Teague, and Pitino want to build the program the right way.

Correct.