In two years or three years we're going to be sick Coyle didn't hire Smith

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DallasGopher

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Mark my words. Craig Smith is the next big name in coaching. He even outcoached Mussleman when Muss was at Nevada several times. The guy has won everywhere he's been, wins more and more games each year, his teams play tough defense and he a smart x's and o's coach. He'll get hired at some power 5 job soon and have them in the NCAA tournament every year. On another note, our AD is a complete moron.
 



DallasGopher said:
Mark my words. Craig Smith is the next big name in coaching. He even outcoached Mussleman when Muss was at Nevada several times. The guy has won everywhere he's been, wins more and more games each year, his teams play tough defense and he a smart x's and o's coach. He'll get hired at some power 5 job soon and have them in the NCAA tournament every year. On another note, our AD is a complete moron.
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I'm afraid you're right. I hope it becomes an Eli Manning/Phillip Rivers sort of debate with no real loser.
 

MplsGopher said:
Until disprove (which likely is impossible), I'm going with Coyle's hand was forced from above.

IE, Gable and/or regents demanded a black coach.

Only thing that makes sense.
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Some people like to pretend this couldn't be true, and that even talking about it makes you a racist. Agree with the decree or not, it does seem that this was predestined.

I will fully admit- I was deep in the Craig Smith camp. I'd like to see him succeed at a P5 job, like Muss. I was all about jettisoning Pitino two years ago to get Muss, and we missed our window. The thing that strikes me about this go around is that it seemed like there were multiple good "up and comer" coaches, and not just retreads available. It seemed like when Pitino was hired that the options were pretty stale after we whiffed on Shaka.
 


I like this better. Smith- in my view was going to be a muck it up, high floor low ceiling guy. Solid coach. If he would have come in against the wishes of the local brain trusts who run the feeder programs, they would have crossed their arms and said- good luck. With Ben, he is their favored guy and that will really help. Can Ben manage it? We don't know but I think that his status with the locals gives him a better shot at going higher. Ben has a lower floor than Smith because of the unknown but also a higher ceiling.
 

forever a gopher said:
Some people like to pretend this couldn't be true, and that even talking about it makes you a racist. Agree with the decree or not, it does seem that this was predestined.

I will fully admit- I was deep in the Craig Smith camp. I'd like to see him succeed at a P5 job, like Muss. I was all about jettisoning Pitino two years ago to get Muss, and we missed our window. The thing that strikes me about this go around is that it seemed like there were multiple good "up and comer" coaches, and not just retreads available. It seemed like when Pitino was hired that the options were pretty stale after we whiffed on Shaka.
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The 2013 cycle was thin after Shaka/Flip/Hoiberg and Hoiberg was never really an option.

In 2019, Musselman and Oats were options. We stood pat. This year, Smith, Niko and Gates were options. We opted for the local lottery ticket. This is why it's very frustrating. This type of hire in 2013 might have made sense because there really weren't clearly better options once they missed on Shaka and blew things up with Flip.
 

bga1 said:
I like this better. Smith- in my view was going to be a muck it up, high floor low ceiling guy. Solid coach. If he would have come in against the wishes of the local brain trusts who run the feeder programs, they would have crossed their arms and said- good luck. With Ben, he is their favored guy and that will really help. Can Ben manage it? We don't know but I think that his status with the locals gives him a better shot at going higher. Ben has a lower floor than Smith because of the unknown but also a higher ceiling.
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The feeder programs will still direct kids to the best spot for the feeder.....
 

bga1 said:
I like this better. Smith- in my view was going to be a muck it up, high floor low ceiling guy. Solid coach. If he would have come in against the wishes of the local brain trusts who run the feeder programs, they would have crossed their arms and said- good luck. With Ben, he is their favored guy and that will really help. Can Ben manage it? We don't know but I think that his status with the locals gives him a better shot at going higher. Ben has a lower floor than Smith because of the unknown but also a higher ceiling.
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Coyle put his job on the line with this wild card hire....He is a smart guy and i have no idea why he would do that....Like others have mentioned, there had to have been some outside pressure to hire someone of color.
 



GopherGangsta said:
Coyle put his job on the line with this wild card hire....He is a smart guy and i have no idea why he would do that....Like others have mentioned, there had to have been some outside pressure to hire someone of color.
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I agree. That said this puts a lot of pressure on the community to get behind him and make the decision they pushed for work.
 

bga1 said:
I like this better. Smith- in my view was going to be a muck it up, high floor low ceiling guy. Solid coach. If he would have come in against the wishes of the local brain trusts who run the feeder programs, they would have crossed their arms and said- good luck. With Ben, he is their favored guy and that will really help. Can Ben manage it? We don't know but I think that his status with the locals gives him a better shot at going higher. Ben has a lower floor than Smith because of the unknown but also a higher ceiling.
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I don't think you can possibly make this judgement at this point. Craig Smith has a career win % of 68%. I'm not sure how you could claim Johnson has a "higher ceiling". You can definitely say Johnson has a lower floor. But at the bare minimum, there is no way we can claim he has a higher ceiling until he has some games under his belt, and some recruiting hits/misses under his belt before we start proclaiming him to be a high ceiling guy. Sometimes as a candidate (sports or otherwise), the unknown is your greatest asset, as there is nothing to point to to find fault with.
 

bga1 said:
I agree. That said this puts a lot of pressure on the community to get behind him and make the decision they pushed for work.
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The intriguing part for me will be if Ben misses out on the top couple MN recruits the next few years....Where will the blame game start and end between the media, the AAU community and high school coaches?
 

bga1 said:
he is their favored guy and that will really help.
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AAU coaches can't force local 4* players who don't want to stay in this state, to stay, for a non-winner.

End of story, no matter how good of a talker the coach is.


Start winning, then more likely. But can't start from that.
 



GopherGangsta said:
The intriguing part for me will be if Ben misses out on the top couple MN recruits the next few years....Where will the blame game start and end between the media, the AAU community and high school coaches?
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Doesn't have to. Coaches can say they like him a lot, but can't force their kids to choose Minn.

Before, they could scapegoat Pitino.
 

MplsGopher said:
Doesn't have to. Coaches can say they like him a lot, but can't force their kids to choose Minn.

Before, they could scapegoat Pitino.
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True....But the main reason Johnson was hired was to keep top MN recruits despite how unrealistic that is to pull off all the time....When kids go elsewhere that Ben recruited hard, the blame game will inevitably show up.
 

MplsGopher said:
AAU coaches can't force local 4* players who don't want to stay in this state, to stay, for a non-winner.

End of story, no matter how good of a talker the coach is.


Start winning, then more likely. But can't start from that.
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Agreed. It seems like many believe there is this inherent bias/loyalty to the local program and we just need to get the AAU coaches on board. But these kids have been traveling around for years once they get to decision day and form their own opinions on where they want to go to school. No different than any other kid. It’s not necessarily telling if a kid wants to try something different.
 

Nah, Coyle hired who he wanted and if you think he was forced then you don’t know Coyle. He’d resign before being told who to hire.
 


GopherGangsta said:
The intriguing part for me will be if Ben misses out on the top couple MN recruits the next few years....Where will the blame game start and end between the media, the AAU community and high school coaches?
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That’ll be the U’s fault. Hard to explain why. But trust me.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
Nah, Coyle hired who he wanted and if you think he was forced then you don’t know Coyle. He’d resign before being told who to hire.
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I agree with this 100%. I think he could have spent more elsewhere too, had he wanted. Obviously the limitations placed on him were money, interest, etc but he chose Ben Johnson out of a list of candidates he identified. I’m all for that approach as credit and blame is easy to place.
 


The last big name coach named Smith we hired had a winning record and a national title and lasted all of 5 years. We all thought we were finally saved back in 08.

I'll pass on stressing about missing out Craig Smith. He seemed like he might be a good option but we have a coach now.
 


DallasGopher said:
Mark my words. Craig Smith is the next big name in coaching. He even outcoached Mussleman when Muss was at Nevada several times. The guy has won everywhere he's been, wins more and more games each year, his teams play tough defense and he a smart x's and o's coach. He'll get hired at some power 5 job soon and have them in the NCAA tournament every year. On another note, our AD is a complete moron.
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You joined this forum less than 2 weeks ago. Is your last name Smith by chance?
 

Smith will be highly successful when he makes the jump to a higher level. Hiring him would have given the Gophers a good chance to be a winning program for a long time.

I don't understand the 'high floor, low ceiling' comment either. He's stepped up in competition 3 times and quickly won a conference championship at each level.
 

So does Coyle get a kickback from his good buddy and Johnson’s agent for overpaying for an unproven coach. Money that could have went to hire top assistants. No way Johnson would have turned the job down for a lot less.
 

GopherGod said:
So does Coyle get a kickback from his good buddy and Johnson’s agent for overpaying for an unproven coach. Money that could have went to hire top assistants. No way Johnson would have turned the job down for a lot less.
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Have seen this input a few times. No matter what we think Johnson should be paid, there is a reasonable going rate for a Big Ten coach, and they weren't going to pay him 600-700K, no matter his experience level. Sure he hit some level of the lottery given his experience level, but Coyle chose to hire him. As to assistants, I'll take as common sense that Coyle knows he needs to surround Johnson with strong assistants, and will have to pay for that.
 

GopherGangsta said:
Coyle put his job on the line with this wild card hire....He is a smart guy and i have no idea why he would do that....Like others have mentioned, there had to have been some outside pressure to hire someone of color.
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I don't understand this "Coyle put his job on the line". Coyle is not going to get fired if this hire does not work out.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
He’d resign before being told who to hire.
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Way too easy for you to throw this out, without having a clue about the circumstances.

Which P5 is going to hire him, when word gets around that he refused to hire a black coach, and that he is difficult to work with?

Maybe he and his family like it here? Would be a major upset for them, likely having to relocate, etc.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Smith will be highly successful when he makes the jump to a higher level. Hiring him would have given the Gophers a good chance to be a winning program for a long time.

I don't understand the 'high floor, low ceiling' comment either. He's stepped up in competition 3 times and quickly won a conference championship at each level.
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Can anyone say with absolute certainty that Smith was not offered the job and turned it down? I don't have the answer, but so many arm chair QBs on this board seem to think they know exactly how the process played out.
 

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