In the history of the MAC...

[corcoran1]

Hey man, no need for the attitude, I was just answering the question.

You are correct, I read the original post too quickly and missed the last point about who was a more accomplished coach.
Actually I think Holtz, Warmath and Stoll weremore accomplished coaches. They all had success, at least relative to the historic success of the programs they led at a P5 level. .
That does not mean they had higher ceilings, but they were successful P5 coaches before they got here.

 

[Maverick]

You are correct, I read the original post too quickly and missed the last point about who was a more accomplished coach.
Actually I think Holtz, Warmath and Stoll weremore accomplished coaches. They all had success, at least relative to the historic success of the programs they led at a P5 level. .
That does not mean they had higher ceilings, but they were successful P5 coaches before they got here.

Does "more accomplished" just mean older? Or does it mean you have a championship under your belt? Or two or three? Where do you draw the line? I think PJ Fleck has accomplished a lot in his 36(?) years. Will he accomplish more as he gets older? Yes for sure, thus making him "more accomplished".

 

[JZsportswhiz]

No it isnt. Those two bowls are equals.

The Orange Bowl has always been a top 5 bowl (BCS), the Cotton Bowl has always the best non-BCS bowl.

BCS bowl > Non-BCS bowl

 

[ruppertflywheel]

I'd love to hear how someone can possibly be "wrong" about something that is unprovable.

Also, according to Sagarin, WMU would've been a 2-point favorite in a neutral-site game at the end of last season. Just insurmountable odds to overcome, really.

We didn't matchup well with them dpodoll. Remember when Kill's NIU team came in and beat Brewster's Gophers? You could see the Gophers were going to get beat by halftime. I would've bet the house on taking the 2 points had we played Western Michigan.

 

[dpodoll68]

We didn't matchup well with them dpodoll. Remember when Kill's NIU team came in and beat Brewster's Gophers? You could see the Gophers were going to get beat by halftime. I would've bet the house on taking the 2 points had we played Western Michigan.

You're comparing the 2010 Brewster Gophers to the 2016 Claeys Gophers? Wow. Maybe step away from the keyboard for a while.

 

[DMB123]

The Orange Bowl has always been a top 5 bowl (BCS), the Cotton Bowl has always the best non-BCS bowl.

BCS bowl > Non-BCS bowl

Hate to break it to you but BCS bowls no longer exist. Both the Orange Bowl and the Cotton Bowl are New Years Six bowls. They are equals in terms of importance and prestige. There was a time where the Cotton Bowl was not a part of the BCS system ('98-'13) and the Orange was. But welcome to 2017. NIU making the Orange Bowl and WMU making the Cotton Bowl are absolutely equal achievements.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

The OP limited the discussion to only the MAC which is his right. My question: does 2016 WMU rank in the top 10 of non-AQ/G5 teams? Probably not. Even in recent years I tend to favor teams that had elite-level defenses (in addition to good or great offense) like Boise, a complete team that beat numerous good teams and put a ton of guys in the NFL; or TCU, a team that won the Rose Bowl and did us all a favor.

Determining the "best" is a difficult question because #record matters but one also has to look at who they played, etc and that requires someone that's been around, someone that's actually watched the games (so no CFP committed members), analytics, etc. If WMU had played Wisconsin week 1 would they have been in the Cotton Bowl?

 

[Pompous Elitist]

One caveat to my post is Boise was a complete team except for their placekicker...IIRC he shanked two short field goals at the end of the game to help allow the 34-31 loss to the cop-lover Kaepernick and a highly ranked Nevada squad...So they missed the BCS that year. The ultimate team game. that kicker tho...wonder if he ever got over macho grande.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

We didn't matchup well with them dpodoll. Remember when Kill's NIU team came in and beat Brewster's Gophers? You could see the Gophers were going to get beat by halftime. I would've bet the house on taking the 2 points had we played Western Michigan.

I think we matched up pretty well with them actually. That isn't taking anything away from WMU last year, the fact that it makes sense to me that a MAC school would be slightly favored against a 9-4 Big Ten school says A LOT about that MAC team. They were uniquely good for a MAC school and PJ deserves credit for that.

 

[PMWinSTP]

The OP limited the discussion to only the MAC which is his right. My question: does 2016 WMU rank in the top 10 of non-AQ/G5 teams? Probably not. Even in recent years I tend to favor teams that had elite-level defenses (in addition to good or great offense) like Boise, a complete team that beat numerous good teams and put a ton of guys in the NFL; or TCU, a team that won the Rose Bowl and did us all a favor.

Determining the "best" is a difficult question because #record matters but one also has to look at who they played, etc and that requires someone that's been around, someone that's actually watched the games (so no CFP committed members), analytics, etc. If WMU had played Wisconsin week 1 would they have been in the Cotton Bowl?

Yeah...Houston, Louisville more recently, and Utah pre PAC12 come to mind as well. 2015 Navy team was pretty good...beat 5 ranked teams.

 

[Spoofin]

This is fruitless to debate. The OP said quite clearly that WMU was the best in history and that it can't be debated. You are all looking silly.


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[ruppertflywheel]

You're comparing the 2010 Brewster Gophers to the 2016 Claeys Gophers? Wow. Maybe step away from the keyboard for a while.

You do understand matching up don't you? I'm comparing 2010 Brewster team to the 2010 NIU
team. You're way to quick to stick a knife into somebody . Might be in your best interest to step back and think before you respond.

 

[dpodoll68]

You do understand matching up don't you? I'm comparing 2010 Brewster team to the 2010 NIU
team. You're way to quick to stick a knife into somebody . Might be in your best interest to step back and think before you respond.

Ok, cool, you're comparing the 2010 Gophers to 2010 NIU. What does any of that have to do with the 2016 Gophers or 2016 WMU?

 

[ruppertflywheel]

Ok, cool, you're comparing the 2010 Gophers to 2010 NIU. What does any of that have to do with the 2016 Gophers or 2016 WMU?

The matchups dpodoll. In 2010 we didn't matchup well with Kill's NIU team. And I don't think we matched up well with our 2016 team against WMU. JMO...

 

[Spoofin]

The matchups dpodoll. In 2010 we didn't matchup well with Kill's NIU team. And I don't think we matched up well with our 2016 team against WMU. JMO...

Well, IMO, they didn't match up well with us. We would have won easily. JMO...


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[Broncos181973]

The fact that WMU ran the regular season table, finished 15th ranked, and played in the Cotton Bowl puts the '16 team in the conversation as one of MAC's all-time best.

However most observers agree the MAC was somewhat "down" last year and we had to survive a season-opening one-point win over Northwestern (who lost to Illinois State the next week) when they fumbled at our one in closing minutes.

 

[Lakeville Goldy]

Well, IMO, they didn't match up well with us. We would have won easily. JMO...


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I'll really get this off topic - depends which Mitch showed up that day...

 

[FireDaveLee]

Only thing I will add to the topic: In 2001, I went to every Gopher game, both home & away. Illinois won the Big Ten, but Toledo could have beaten them, along with any other team in the conference that year.

They also could have lost to quite a few teams, but were as good as any team the Gophers played that year (2001 was a down year for the Big Ten, though)

 

[Some Day...Maybe]

So we only needed to go back 13-years to find 2 that are comparable and 4 more years to find a third?


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Northern Illinois' season was not as good. They had 2 losses, one to a 4-8 Big Ten team and got blown out in their bowl game, weren't even competitive. I would not consider that comparable.


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