In hindsight, this outcome is not that surprising. This is Mark Gronowski's sixth year as a starting college QB.

Donate To GopherHole
S

SeaBee_Gopher

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2022
Messages
506
Reaction score
601
Points
93
I must say, I'm glad I went and worked in my yard after we fell behind 31-0 or I'd probably be just as worked up as the rest of you. I feel better today because I was actually productive yesterday and have some perspective. Let me point out a few things after going back and watching the rest of the game:

1) QB is the most important position in football and Iowa has a very good one, maybe a GREAT one. Why shouldn't he be after SIX years as a college starter! Max Brosmer will be a better pro than Mark Gronowski, but Mark is a better college QB. He doesn't look flashy, but he is very seasoned and smart and it showed. His legs really help him especially in the college game and so does his savvy. He's very similar to Diego Pavia for Vanderbilt. Drake Lindsey needs to get in a little better shape to improve his mobility. He'll never be Mark, but he can have better mobility than he does now.

2) The Nebraska outcome tricked a lot of us, including me, into thinking we had a good chance against Iowa. We did not. We've struggled against bad P4/G5 schools this year. The Nebraska game was a 10% probability outcome in our favor and things evened out one week later against Iowa. I think we win 5 out of 10 games against Nebraska. The teams are equal. They aren't that good either.

3) This is a really good Iowa team. They hung with Indiana and many think would have beaten Indiana if Mark hadn't gotten hurt during the game. No one would be surprised if we played Indiana this year and they hung 50 on us. This just stings worse because it's IOWA! Ugh!!!

4) We were outclassed, but also unlucky and undisciplined:
a) I wondered why Wetjen scored so easy on that punt return and we looked so slow. Both our two gunners on the outside ran past the play and our guy on the left allowed himself to get pushed all the way over to the right. Terrible discipline.
b) Our end lost contain on that first Mark Gronowski touchdown. Seriously, he's known for his legs and you lose contain? That happened multiple times.
c) Three interceptions by our freshman QB! Ouch.
d) Iowa got first downs by inches a couple times early on 3rd and 4th downs that could have ended drives and helped us keep things closer.
e) John Nestor left Iowa because he was struggling to get on the field and became our starting corner. That's a sign they are a lot more talented than us. I will continue to beat the drum that he should be a safety, not a corner. We are just very weak at corner this year so he's plugging the hole in the dike.

4) This was a 10% outcome for us vs. Iowa on the downside. OK, actually a 20% outcome, they are just a lot better than us this year. Their coaches are better too. When will Kirk Ferentz & Phil Parker finally retire? We at Minnesota and Wisconsin are tired of them beating up on us!!! They are two of the best coaches ever in the college game. We're very unlucky they have been at Iowa all this time. They've made Iowa as good as they could possibly be.

5) As I've said before, but was tricked into forgetting when we beat down Nebraska, we were better last year and will be better next year. This year we're not that good.

Thoughts? And no, I haven't read any of the other message strings yet because I figured they would be extremely depressing. If you already said something intelligent there, I missed it.
 

SeaBee_Gopher said:
I must say, I'm glad I went and worked in my yard after we fell behind 31-0 or I'd probably be just as worked up as the rest of you. I feel better today because I was actually productive yesterday and have some perspective. Let me point out a few things after going back and watching the rest of the game:

1) QB is the most important position in football and Iowa has a very good one, maybe a GREAT one. Why shouldn't he be after SIX years as a college starter! Max Brosmer will be a better pro than Mark Gronowski, but Mark is a better college QB. He doesn't look flashy, but he is very seasoned and smart and it showed. His legs really help him especially in the college game and so does his savvy. He's very similar to Diego Pavia for Vanderbilt. Drake Lindsey needs to get in a little better shape to improve his mobility. He'll never be Mark, but he can have better mobility than he does now.

2) The Nebraska outcome tricked a lot of us, including me, into thinking we had a good chance against Iowa. We did not. We've struggled against bad P4/G5 schools this year. The Nebraska game was a 10% probability outcome in our favor and things evened out one week later against Iowa. I think we win 5 out of 10 games against Nebraska. The teams are equal. They aren't that good either.

3) This is a really good Iowa team. They hung with Indiana and many think would have beaten Indiana if Mark hadn't gotten hurt during the game. No one would be surprised if we played Indiana this year and they hung 50 on us. This just stings worse because it's IOWA! Ugh!!!

4) We were outclassed, but also unlucky and undisciplined:
a) I wondered why Wetjen scored so easy on that punt return and we looked so slow. Both our two gunners on the outside ran past the play and our guy on the left allowed himself to get pushed all the way over to the right. Terrible discipline.
b) Our end lost contain on that first Mark Gronowski touchdown. Seriously, he's known for his legs and you lose contain? That happened multiple times.
c) Three interceptions by our freshman QB! Ouch.
d) Iowa got first downs by inches a couple times early on 3rd and 4th downs that could have ended drives and helped us keep things closer.
e) John Nestor left Iowa because he was struggling to get on the field and became our starting corner. That's a sign they are a lot more talented than us. I will continue to beat the drum that he should be a safety, not a corner. We are just very weak at corner this year so he's plugging the hole in the dike.

4) This was a 10% outcome for us vs. Iowa on the downside. OK, actually a 20% outcome, they are just a lot better than us this year. Their coaches are better too. When will Kirk Ferentz & Phil Parker finally retire? We at Minnesota and Wisconsin are tired of them beating up on us!!! They are two of the best coaches ever in the college game. We're very unlucky they have been at Iowa all this time. They've made Iowa as good as they could possibly be.

5) As I've said before, but was tricked into forgetting when we beat down Nebraska, we were better last year and will be better next year. This year we're not that good.

Thoughts? And no, I haven't read any of the other message strings yet because I figured they would be extremely depressing. If you already said something intelligent there, I missed it.
Click to expand...
I have no disagreements
 


SeaBee_Gopher said:
I must say, I'm glad I went and worked in my yard after we fell behind 31-0 or I'd probably be just as worked up as the rest of you. I feel better today because I was actually productive yesterday and have some perspective. Let me point out a few things after going back and watching the rest of the game:

1) QB is the most important position in football and Iowa has a very good one, maybe a GREAT one. Why shouldn't he be after SIX years as a college starter! Max Brosmer will be a better pro than Mark Gronowski, but Mark is a better college QB. He doesn't look flashy, but he is very seasoned and smart and it showed. His legs really help him especially in the college game and so does his savvy. He's very similar to Diego Pavia for Vanderbilt. Drake Lindsey needs to get in a little better shape to improve his mobility. He'll never be Mark, but he can have better mobility than he does now.

2) The Nebraska outcome tricked a lot of us, including me, into thinking we had a good chance against Iowa. We did not. We've struggled against bad P4/G5 schools this year. The Nebraska game was a 10% probability outcome in our favor and things evened out one week later against Iowa. I think we win 5 out of 10 games against Nebraska. The teams are equal. They aren't that good either.

3) This is a really good Iowa team. They hung with Indiana and many think would have beaten Indiana if Mark hadn't gotten hurt during the game. No one would be surprised if we played Indiana this year and they hung 50 on us. This just stings worse because it's IOWA! Ugh!!!

4) We were outclassed, but also unlucky and undisciplined:
a) I wondered why Wetjen scored so easy on that punt return and we looked so slow. Both our two gunners on the outside ran past the play and our guy on the left allowed himself to get pushed all the way over to the right. Terrible discipline.
b) Our end lost contain on that first Mark Gronowski touchdown. Seriously, he's known for his legs and you lose contain? That happened multiple times.
c) Three interceptions by our freshman QB! Ouch.
d) Iowa got first downs by inches a couple times early on 3rd and 4th downs that could have ended drives and helped us keep things closer.
e) John Nestor left Iowa because he was struggling to get on the field and became our starting corner. That's a sign they are a lot more talented than us. I will continue to beat the drum that he should be a safety, not a corner. We are just very weak at corner this year so he's plugging the hole in the dike.

4) This was a 10% outcome for us vs. Iowa on the downside. OK, actually a 20% outcome, they are just a lot better than us this year. Their coaches are better too. When will Kirk Ferentz & Phil Parker finally retire? We at Minnesota and Wisconsin are tired of them beating up on us!!! They are two of the best coaches ever in the college game. We're very unlucky they have been at Iowa all this time. They've made Iowa as good as they could possibly be.

5) As I've said before, but was tricked into forgetting when we beat down Nebraska, we were better last year and will be better next year. This year we're not that good.

Thoughts? And no, I haven't read any of the other message strings yet because I figured they would be extremely depressing. If you already said something intelligent there, I missed it.
Click to expand...
Thought about Max immediately with the title. Blind squirrel eventually finds a nut as the saying goes. Same with I-O-W-A. They would eventually find a QB that worked for them and they have...of course due to The Portal and not the old fashioned way getting selected as a Freshman and working your way up. Bet HC Ferentz loves The Portal now.
 



He's a better leader than a QB. Not the best footwork a doesn't see open WRs very well.

His running ability is huge because a defense has to account for him where most Iowa QBs you don't have to worry about that at all. But as a passer isn't a huge threat.

His backup QB is a good athlete too so Iowa can afford to run Gronowski a bit more than they normally want to because they won't have to completely change their game plan with their backup in.
 


LeftofThaDial said:
On what planet is Gronowski considered a good or great QB?
Click to expand...
Yesterday in Iowa City: Big running QBs have been kryptonite for Minnesota forever. See Kalizmicki (sp?) in the ‘79 Minnesota-Wisconsin and then forever more. It’s weird. Also see Seabee’s point 4(e). Just throw it in the general direction of the wide receiver.
 




Married@SiebertField said:
Yesterday in Iowa City: Big running QBs have been kryptonite for Minnesota forever. See Kalizmicki (sp?) in the ‘79 Minnesota-Wisconsin and then forever more. It’s weird. Also see Seabee’s point 4(e). Just throw it in the general direction of the wide receiver.
Click to expand...
He threw for 135 yards, rushed for 24 yards. By any number of statistics he is the worst QB in the Big Ten this year. I agree that he is tough, and injuries have weighed him down. Doesn’t change the fact that he’s basically had a season so far extremely similar to Mitch’s senior year.
 

The 6-6 to 7-5 prediction included some pretty lopsided ouches due to a RS fresh QB having growing pains. My guess was losing 30-13 because it was not a good matchup. Turned out to be a bit worse.

This year:
Gophers not good at stopping the run. Iowa is run heavy. Favors Iowa.
Gophers not good at running. Iowa is good against the pass. Favors Iowa.

Regarding coaching. I don't know. We get what we pay for? I'm game for changes concerning the OL (coaches, transfers, this needs fixing now). Stopping the run-wise, Danny Collins has got some growing to do. There's potential there. I'm patient so far but...
 


With Iowa's dominant defense, they even held Cignatti and Indiana to a low score, they don't need Gronowski to single handedly beat teams. Just to not turn it over and move the chains. That punt return guy is crazy fast and they got him as a walk on. Iowa has a great defense. Phil Parker is really good defensive coordinator, that and he makes more than 2 million dollars.
 
Last edited:




SeaBee_Gopher said:
5) As I've said before, but was tricked into forgetting when we beat down Nebraska, we were better last year and will be better next year. This year we're not that good.

Thoughts? And no, I haven't read any of the other message strings yet because I figured they would be extremely depressing. If you already said something intelligent there, I missed it.
Click to expand...

Agreed. We lost a lot from last season. Drake eventually may be better than Max Brosmer but he isn't right now. We lost our two top receivers. Neither was much of a deep threat but they sure could catch the ball and Jackson was particularly good at doing it while defended. We lost key linemen. From the defense, they lost Walley, Jack Henderson, Lindenberg, Striggow, Ethan Robinson, and Jah Joyner.

I was concerned after these losses but I trusted that Fleck's transfers and emerging underclassmen would fill the void well enough. So far, they haven't.

After the 2023 season, Fleck apparently didn't trust Athan enough to abstain from recruiting someone more experienced that he thought could replace him. Will he have similar thoughts in this offseason?
 



stocker08 said:
Getting beaten handily by Iowa wouldn't be surprising. Getting blown out 41-3 like we're playing an Ohio State team stacked with top end talent though? We should expect better than that at this point in Fleck's tenure.
Click to expand...
tOSU was because they were that much better and we went in with a plan to not make any mistakes and they just slowly pulled away.

Iowa was mistake after mistake by offense and special teams. Two completely different games.

I also agree that Iowa is good and may make the playoffs.
 

stocker08 said:
Getting beaten handily by Iowa wouldn't be surprising. Getting blown out 41-3 like we're playing an Ohio State team stacked with top end talent though? We should expect better than that at this point in Fleck's tenure.
Click to expand...
To be fair, Iowa went 6-6 in Ferentz’s 9th season and missed out on a bowl. Didn’t get blown out as bad in any games, but they did lose to a Western Michigan team that finished 5-7.
 

I think the difference between us and Iowa is coaching. PJ was talking about it's a process when it comes to playing a freshman QB. I think that is even more true talking about coaches when you have so many different new coaches every year.
I agree, Iowa's coaches are better.
It was fun to beat Nebraska but we had a lot of help setting them up...brand new entries into the Top 25 often lay an egg. Then their coach as much as says I'd love to coach at Penn State. Add the monkey of losing 5 of the last 6 to us or whatever it is and it's going to be nearly impossible for Nebraska to win against us last week.
IF PJ believed in momentum...we had it going into Iowa City where we won the last time there.
Disappointing effort all around but especially in preparing the team to play.
We seldom seem to play with that "Why Not US?" mentality or true belief...we roll over too easy, too often versus better teams. I'd just like to see us compete.
 

stocker08 said:
Getting beaten handily by Iowa wouldn't be surprising. Getting blown out 41-3 like we're playing an Ohio State team stacked with top end talent though? We should expect better than that at this point in Fleck's tenure.
Click to expand...
Yes, you'd think in the ninth year the program would be going somewhere, but PJ is coaching 2 and 3* players when he needs 4 and 5* players. Drake, Koi and Marius are up there, but we need a team of them to take on the big boys. Recruiting is the issue in the 9th year, and now that players are being purchased, it doesn't help us.
 

SeaBee_Gopher said:
I must say, I'm glad I went and worked in my yard after we fell behind 31-0 or I'd probably be just as worked up as the rest of you. I feel better today because I was actually productive yesterday and have some perspective. Let me point out a few things after going back and watching the rest of the game:

1) QB is the most important position in football and Iowa has a very good one, maybe a GREAT one. Why shouldn't he be after SIX years as a college starter! Max Brosmer will be a better pro than Mark Gronowski, but Mark is a better college QB. He doesn't look flashy, but he is very seasoned and smart and it showed. His legs really help him especially in the college game and so does his savvy. He's very similar to Diego Pavia for Vanderbilt. Drake Lindsey needs to get in a little better shape to improve his mobility. He'll never be Mark, but he can have better mobility than he does now.

2) The Nebraska outcome tricked a lot of us, including me, into thinking we had a good chance against Iowa. We did not. We've struggled against bad P4/G5 schools this year. The Nebraska game was a 10% probability outcome in our favor and things evened out one week later against Iowa. I think we win 5 out of 10 games against Nebraska. The teams are equal. They aren't that good either.

3) This is a really good Iowa team. They hung with Indiana and many think would have beaten Indiana if Mark hadn't gotten hurt during the game. No one would be surprised if we played Indiana this year and they hung 50 on us. This just stings worse because it's IOWA! Ugh!!!

4) We were outclassed, but also unlucky and undisciplined:
a) I wondered why Wetjen scored so easy on that punt return and we looked so slow. Both our two gunners on the outside ran past the play and our guy on the left allowed himself to get pushed all the way over to the right. Terrible discipline.
b) Our end lost contain on that first Mark Gronowski touchdown. Seriously, he's known for his legs and you lose contain? That happened multiple times.
c) Three interceptions by our freshman QB! Ouch.
d) Iowa got first downs by inches a couple times early on 3rd and 4th downs that could have ended drives and helped us keep things closer.
e) John Nestor left Iowa because he was struggling to get on the field and became our starting corner. That's a sign they are a lot more talented than us. I will continue to beat the drum that he should be a safety, not a corner. We are just very weak at corner this year so he's plugging the hole in the dike.

4) This was a 10% outcome for us vs. Iowa on the downside. OK, actually a 20% outcome, they are just a lot better than us this year. Their coaches are better too. When will Kirk Ferentz & Phil Parker finally retire? We at Minnesota and Wisconsin are tired of them beating up on us!!! They are two of the best coaches ever in the college game. We're very unlucky they have been at Iowa all this time. They've made Iowa as good as they could possibly be.

5) As I've said before, but was tricked into forgetting when we beat down Nebraska, we were better last year and will be better next year. This year we're not that good.

Thoughts? And no, I haven't read any of the other message strings yet because I figured they would be extremely depressing. If you already said something intelligent there, I missed it.
Click to expand...
You say we will be better next year.

Please explain this.
 

MonikerSchmoniker45 said:
It all starts in the trenches. Iowa owns us on both sides. No excuse for yesterday's performance.
Click to expand...
I agree our OL is terrible. How did it get this bad? We can't run block against any P4 team. Not sure what that saids about Nebraska's black shirts. Our DL has talent but does not play like they do. I think that is coaching. No easy fix in year 9 when both trenches stink.
 

Gopher Mac said:
I agree our OL is terrible. How did it get this bad? We can't run block against any P4 team. Not sure what that saids about Nebraska's black shirts. Our DL has talent but does not play like they do. I think that is coaching. No easy fix in year 9 when both trenches stink.
Click to expand...
I'm starting to think that PJ's culture, although it's great for these kids and their overall lives, might just produce soft football teams. I heard a kid from Indiana who stayed when Cig came and he said the difference is there's nothing they do that doesn't have to do with winning football games.
 


Great Plains Gopher said:
Yes, you'd think in the ninth year the program would be going somewhere, but PJ is coaching 2 and 3* players when he needs 4 and 5* players. Drake, Koi and Marius are up there, but we need a team of them to take on the big boys. Recruiting is the issue in the 9th year, and now that players are being purchased, it doesn't help us.
Click to expand...
That’s the key there. I no longer believe he is coaching 2 star players as he gets nearly all 3 star players and a handful of 4s. Kill would take many 2 stars that had traits and develop them.

PJ by his own admission says this is a developmental program. That means you are depending on guys sticking around and becoming better and better and then see the field as redshirt juniors and seniors with the thought that a 22 year old man is going to be more dominant than an 18 year old. Not always the case and doesn’t always work that way but that’s the thought. With the transfer portal it’s that much harder to have guys stuck around, they don’t play they want to go.

I do believe he’s upgraded his recruiting a lot as most of the guys he gets have multiple high level offers. He gets the occasional, he stole that one from Western Michigan (like a couple of the recent commits) but in general he’s upgraded. Problem is everyone else in the BiG has upgraded, and now throw in NIL and it’s gotten a lot tougher to advance.
 

I stopped watching the game at 31-0. First time I've checked out on a Gopher game that early in many years, probably since the 55-0 game in the Dome finale. I had a party in Key West to get to and was with someone who didn't care at all about football so it was an easy choice.

I did not see the QB situation as the difference between the teams in the decisive period. Their guy missed a couple of open receivers who had our DBs beat or it would have been even uglier. He also completed the one TD that was mostly an individual effort by the WR.

I saw our DBs getting torched on deep routes by a notoriously sluggish team and a team getting beat decisively on both the offensive and defensive lines. Special teams breakdowns and a little bit of bad luck.

I know they somehow looked like world beaters against Nebraska but this is the Gophers worst secondary this decade and if I were an upcoming opponent I would just max protect, play action, and send my WRs deep for bombs over and over.

Being able to win that way often indicates a talent and speed gap. Oregon might get 80
 

MonikerSchmoniker45 said:
I'm starting to think that PJ's culture, although it's great for these kids and their overall lives, might just produce soft football teams. I heard a kid from Indiana who stayed when Cig came and he said the difference is there's nothing they do that doesn't have to do with winning football games.
Click to expand...
Yeah, writing sympathy cards or whatever to the newspaper and waving goodbye to the women's hockey team isn't quite on par with preparing to win football games.

PJ's schtick is really for actual college student-athletes, not semi-pro football players.
 

SeaBee_Gopher said:
I must say, I'm glad I went and worked in my yard after we fell behind 31-0 or I'd probably be just as worked up as the rest of you. I feel better today because I was actually productive yesterday and have some perspective. Let me point out a few things after going back and watching the rest of the game:

1) QB is the most important position in football and Iowa has a very good one, maybe a GREAT one. Why shouldn't he be after SIX years as a college starter! Max Brosmer will be a better pro than Mark Gronowski, but Mark is a better college QB. He doesn't look flashy, but he is very seasoned and smart and it showed. His legs really help him especially in the college game and so does his savvy. He's very similar to Diego Pavia for Vanderbilt. Drake Lindsey needs to get in a little better shape to improve his mobility. He'll never be Mark, but he can have better mobility than he does now.

2) The Nebraska outcome tricked a lot of us, including me, into thinking we had a good chance against Iowa. We did not. We've struggled against bad P4/G5 schools this year. The Nebraska game was a 10% probability outcome in our favor and things evened out one week later against Iowa. I think we win 5 out of 10 games against Nebraska. The teams are equal. They aren't that good either.

3) This is a really good Iowa team. They hung with Indiana and many think would have beaten Indiana if Mark hadn't gotten hurt during the game. No one would be surprised if we played Indiana this year and they hung 50 on us. This just stings worse because it's IOWA! Ugh!!!

4) We were outclassed, but also unlucky and undisciplined:
a) I wondered why Wetjen scored so easy on that punt return and we looked so slow. Both our two gunners on the outside ran past the play and our guy on the left allowed himself to get pushed all the way over to the right. Terrible discipline.
b) Our end lost contain on that first Mark Gronowski touchdown. Seriously, he's known for his legs and you lose contain? That happened multiple times.
c) Three interceptions by our freshman QB! Ouch.
d) Iowa got first downs by inches a couple times early on 3rd and 4th downs that could have ended drives and helped us keep things closer.
e) John Nestor left Iowa because he was struggling to get on the field and became our starting corner. That's a sign they are a lot more talented than us. I will continue to beat the drum that he should be a safety, not a corner. We are just very weak at corner this year so he's plugging the hole in the dike.

4) This was a 10% outcome for us vs. Iowa on the downside. OK, actually a 20% outcome, they are just a lot better than us this year. Their coaches are better too. When will Kirk Ferentz & Phil Parker finally retire? We at Minnesota and Wisconsin are tired of them beating up on us!!! They are two of the best coaches ever in the college game. We're very unlucky they have been at Iowa all this time. They've made Iowa as good as they could possibly be.

5) As I've said before, but was tricked into forgetting when we beat down Nebraska, we were better last year and will be better next year. This year we're not that good.

Thoughts? And no, I haven't read any of the other message strings yet because I figured they would be extremely depressing. If you already said something intelligent there, I missed it.
Click to expand...
Iowa has veteran offensive and defensive lines, with depth. Their O line is probably top 5-10 in college football. That makes up for a lot of deficiencies in other areas. Their D-line is just solid, no All-American types but has depth and very rarely gives up much. That is a recipe for success playing their style of football. And of course solid special teams. Wisconsin used to be the same way prior to Fickell. Iowa was most likely a Gronowski injury away from beating a pretty good Indiana team and I'm guessing will give Oregon one hell of a battle in 2 weeks. It's all about the line of scrimmage. That's why the Gophs dominated Nebraska and also why Saturday happened.
 

Ferentz is in year 27 and has two 8-0 marks and one 7-1 mark. No season ended in less than 2 losses. I'd take that over the next 18 years of Fleck.

One thing I took away from Saturday and traditionally at Iowa. They have a system and they recruit to the system. Every position group looks the same. They have the same build and skills. They might be one of the best at doing this. They now seem to have a vision for QB as well.

Ferentz has 6 seasons of 3 or fewer losses in 25 season excluding COVID
Fleck has 1 in 7 seasons excluding COVID.

I truly believe its the Assistant Pool of $$$ holding us back and getting guys to stay and wanting to stay here as Assistants.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom