If true we will never see NDSU ever again.....

To me this is all about $$ and its about time.
FBS teams put alot of $$ into running their athletic programs (facilities and scholarships). FCS teams do not. They are in a different league or division because they decided they did not want to make the same sort of commitments (facilities and scholarships) as FBS teams do. Why give these schools a 'taste' of being an FBS school while they are not having to have the same commitment level?

I also believe that in Minnesota's situation we should never play an FCS school that touches our borders ever again just for the sake of the walk on situation. Why would we allow a potential walk on go to NDSU where they can market the kid by saying "you can get back at the U for not giving you a scholarship when we go down there to play in 2 years". We need every walk on we can get, and if you take away playing in any Big Ten stadium from NDSU you know there are alot of kids that would end up as walk ons.

I'd actually argue that the exact opposite is the case. How many current FBS teams are former FCS schools? How many current FCS schools are former D-II schools? Compare that number to how many FCS schools are former FBS-level schools. You'll see the number is favored in the up-swing. North Dakota State, like many FCS schools WANT to put more in to facilities, scholarships, etc. They are behind the game as they were never traditional powerhouses, their school size was too small to allow it, etc over the course of history. But why are these schools choosing to play FBS teams and get payouts to do so? Because they want to up their budget to build facilities, pay coaches, etc.
 

To me this is all about $$ and its about time.
FBS teams put alot of $$ into running their athletic programs (facilities and scholarships). FCS teams do not. They are in a different league or division because they decided they did not want to make the same sort of commitments (facilities and scholarships) as FBS teams do. Why give these schools a 'taste' of being an FBS school while they are not having to have the same commitment level?

I also believe that in Minnesota's situation we should never play an FCS school that touches our borders ever again just for the sake of the walk on situation. Why would we allow a potential walk on go to NDSU where they can market the kid by saying "you can get back at the U for not giving you a scholarship when we go down there to play in 2 years". We need every walk on we can get, and if you take away playing in any Big Ten stadium from NDSU you know there are alot of kids that would end up as walk ons.

Absolutely spot on.
Let kids chase a scholarship to the tundra of north dakota if they like, more power to them, but don't give them a one time chance to come home in a B1G stadium in front of their family and freinds. You can't BUY that kind of recruiting tool we've given those programs the past few years.
The fact they've caught us in two transition years and Brewster never watched film on SD made it worse, but whoever scheduled these games in the first place miscalculated immensely.
I'm very happy about the new B1G policy, no more crap FCS games that are lose lose and nobody wants to watch, and no more troglodytes from the west coming here to try and talk smack about their cute little D2 program.
 


Absolutely spot on.
Let kids chase a scholarship to the tundra of north dakota if they like, more power to them, but don't give them a one time chance to come home in a B1G stadium in front of their family and freinds. You can't BUY that kind of recruiting tool we've given those programs the past few years.
The fact they've caught us in two transition years and Brewster never watched film on SD made it worse, but whoever scheduled these games in the first place miscalculated immensely.
I'm very happy about the new B1G policy, no more crap FCS games that are lose lose and nobody wants to watch, and no more troglodytes from the west coming here to try and talk smack about their cute little D2 program.

That does soften the blow.:)
 

In fact, as this study notes, these schools are pumping heavy subsidies to their athletic departments. They also ask their students to pay a much higher % of athletic department revenue than FBS schools (and the gap gets bigger the higher the FBS school's revenues are). My guess is that these FCS schools would spend more if they could, and are doing everything they can to keep up. Schools with FCS football programs have increased AD budgets by 48% in the 5 years studied, compared with 51% for FBS school average. For schools with athletic departments but no D-1 football, the spend increase has only been 39%. I'd hardly say they aren't trying to keep up. One could argue they're trying too hard given how much it is likely costing their general student population...

My take is that this decision is largely determined by money. TV revenue will continue to be a larger portion of any B1G school's total AD revenue as time moves on. You can only charge so much for tickets, parking, and t-shirts. AS the conference expands in geography (bleh), the footprint and brand increases allowing larger contracts. But they can extract even more if the average weekly matchup is not seen as a snore-fest for TV, even though a game against a more local FCS school might have better ticket sales and attendance figures than an FBS school from 4 states away (or much further as often happens). Furthermore, with a 10-game conference schedule and 2 NC games, it's reasonable to assume that a team COULD get 1 FBS under-level team and a home/home with another big conference opponent, making for an average of 6.5 home games a year (more if teams don't have a major on their schedule every single year). That's not too different than the 7 home games now, from a revenue perspective.

The second play is the strength of schedule argument. When the playoff comes around, 1, 2 losses won't be a big deal. In a possible (horrible) future of only 4 conferences where each conference champ gets an auto-bid (maybe 2-4 at large selections, who knows), anywhere from 2-3 losses would be totally acceptable. For said auto-bids and near-term playoff selection, the B1G recognizes that a win over an FCS team is more of a sure thing, but does far less for SoS.

What is likely to happen is 2 MAC-level opponents each year, some of them will demand a home and home (like UNLV, New Mexico St, etc), some won't and will be fine with the payouts and 2 away games. We won't get to see nearly as many interesting matchups, we won't have nearly as good of an idea as to which conference is better than another (because no one will be playing each other enough to let the computers work their magic), and we will be treated as fans to fewer home games each year in our beautiful $280M stadium. And some of those away games won't even be televised for your average cable viewer. Fun times.
 


Absolutely spot on.
Let kids chase a scholarship to the tundra of north dakota if they like, more power to them, but don't give them a one time chance to come home in a B1G stadium in front of their family and freinds. You can't BUY that kind of recruiting tool we've given those programs the past few years.
The fact they've caught us in two transition years and Brewster never watched film on SD made it worse, but whoever scheduled these games in the first place miscalculated immensely.
I'm very happy about the new B1G policy, no more crap FCS games that are lose lose and nobody wants to watch, and no more troglodytes from the west coming here to try and talk smack about their cute little D2 program.

Add in the fact that the FBS schools pay big money to these schools the FBS is in essence subsidizing the FCS schools to recruit and perform against the Big Ten. Time for the Big Ten to take that money away and make sure the Big Ten is the best option by a greater margin.
 

I agree that most FCS schools ultimate goal to become a FBS school......so why are we (and the B10) helping them do that? Why give these teams any sort of exposure? Why create competition for yourself?
We are a state with 1 FBS school, why would we want another FBS school right on our border (with 85 scholarships ready to hand out)?
 

If I never saw the Gophers play another FCS team I would be very happy.
 

I agree that most FCS schools ultimate goal to become a FBS school......so why are we (and the B10) helping them do that? Why give these teams any sort of exposure? Why create competition for yourself?
We are a state with 1 FBS school, why would we want another FBS school right on our border (with 85 scholarships ready to hand out)?

This is exactly why FCS schools will never be able to have the $$$ available to move up. When your home stadium (FargoDome) has maximum capacity of less than 20K, along with the additional $millions needed for staff, plus the need for a new $500 million stadium, it will never happen in my lifetime.
 



you guys are ryt. they are cutting the cash to FCS. D1 is making a play to become the game
 

Playing a team from a lower level of competition is like the poor high school boys that get stuck wrestling against girls. There is absolutely no way to win if you're in that situation. You beat a girl? Good for you. You lose, you might as well transfer to another school because you're going to be mocked and ridiculed through graduation, and then some.
 

Add in the fact that the FBS schools pay big money to these schools the FBS is in essence subsidizing the FCS schools to recruit and perform against the Big Ten. Time for the Big Ten to take that money away and make sure the Big Ten is the best option by a greater margin.

I'm confused how this is productive to football in general, let alone would-be student athletes. The U PASSED on almost every single one of these kids. Last I checked, we're not losing a recruiting war with local FCS schools and the path to eliminating that loss is to cut out a recruiting advantage they have (being able to come play at TCF once every 3-4 years and get revenge on the U).

On a broader level, we're not able to bring in more football players than we already do. The NCAA is unlikely to increase the amount of scholarships allowed for football, and even if they did, would we be able to afford it? We'd also have to add more scholarships for women's sports to make up the difference, possibly even add another sport.

How does saying "F U" to the likes of SDSU, NDSU, etc make for a society where more kids have access to scholarship football? And again I will ask - will any of this extra revenue make the University of Minnesota more competitive relative to our Big Ten brethren?
 

This is exactly why FCS schools will never be able to have the $$$ available to move up. When your home stadium (FargoDome) has maximum capacity of less than 20K, along with the additional $millions needed for staff, plus the need for a new $500 million stadium, it will never happen in my lifetime.

Then why are we convincing ourselves that we will ever be able to move up relative to the rest of our conference?
 



Playing a team from a lower level of competition is like the poor high school boys that get stuck wrestling against girls. There is absolutely no way to win if you're in that situation. You beat a girl? Good for you. You lose, you might as well transfer to another school because you're going to be mocked and ridiculed through graduation, and then some.

Unless beating that girl allowed you to play in a post-season bowl game, like our last 2 have hinged on (and also 2004's season when we somehow also beat Alabama).
 

Then why are we convincing ourselves that we will ever be able to move up relative to the rest of our conference?

Damn good question, Rail. I have never said we will again move up relative, nor have I said we never will. That was not my position. What I said was, the $$$ needed for FCS level schools like NDSU to move up to FBS will not happen in my lifetime. Please, don't take my comment out of context and apply it to a new agenda.
 

Then why are we convincing ourselves that we will ever be able to move up relative to the rest of our conference?

Minnesota already is a BCS team. NDSU's stadium capacity and attendance would be an obstacle to moving up to the FBS, unless they wanted to move to the MAC or the Sun Belt. They would have hurdles to clear that Minnesota doesn't.
 

Damn good question, Rail. I have never said we will again move up relative, nor have I said we never will. That was not my position. What I said was, the $$$ needed for FCS level schools like NDSU to move up to FBS will not happen in my lifetime. Please, don't take my comment out of context and apply it to a new agenda.

I wasn't taking your comments out of context, this whole thread has devolved in to a our funding with/without FCS schools on our plate, why we're funding their ability to become competition in the first place, etc. I was just pointing it out as the widely held belief on this board is more revenue at the U will equate to higher competitiveness, not pointing out that you've ever had a particular stance.

I'd also say there's nothing requiring a team like NDSU to have a $500M stadium.. furthermore the numbers on how they support their athletic programs could tell a different story - through general fund (state) and student support, athletic budgets could get big enough in the near-term to afford capital improvements with longer-term revenue streams from tickets, concessions, payouts, and even future TV contracts reducing the need for said support. All these improvements the big schools are making have relatively little marginal return on investment from a quality of athlete, quality of coaching, etc standpoint. An example is Alabama's new weight room - very impressive, indeed. But their old one was already very impressive, and the new one will have marginal impacts on the players' ability to train better (most of the improvements are about player comfort and wow factor to attract the best kids to their school, not improving the actual game play). This is where it's very possible to see teams like NDSU make bigger leaps per dollar spent than a team like MN would, in my opinion.
 

You're comparing the best FCS teams to the field in FBS. Boise State is in the MWC and they would kick the *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# out of you. So would a team like Central Florida, Northern Illinois, or Tulsa, sagarin ratings be damned.

Yes, the best FCS teams are better than some FBS teams, but I'll take the MAC or Moutain West over the Missouri Valley Conference any day.

Hey, you don't need to get pissy about it, but do you even follow college football. End of year sagarin:

Northern Illinois. 39
UCF. 45
Tulsa. 47
NDSU. 35

Pretty sure I'm not afraid to play those games, pretty sure we all play 1-2 games vs top 50, and pretty sure the strength of those conf is about the same as the Valley. N IL is in the MAC, correct?
 

Hey, you don't need to get pissy about it, but do you even follow college football. End of year sagarin:

Northern Illinois. 39
UCF. 45
Tulsa. 47
NDSU. 35

Pretty sure I'm not afraid to play those games, pretty sure we all play 1-2 games vs top 50, and pretty sure the strength of those conf is about the same as the Valley. N IL is in the MAC, correct?

^^^^
Doesn't get it.
 

Hey, you don't need to get pissy about it, but do you even follow college football. End of year sagarin:

Northern Illinois. 39
UCF. 45
Tulsa. 47
NDSU. 35

Pretty sure I'm not afraid to play those games, pretty sure we all play 1-2 games vs top 50, and pretty sure the strength of those conf is about the same as the Valley. N IL is in the MAC, correct?

This guy is hilarious.
 

Hey, you don't need to get pissy about it, but do you even follow college football. End of year sagarin:

Northern Illinois. 39
UCF. 45
Tulsa. 47
NDSU. 35

Pretty sure I'm not afraid to play those games, pretty sure we all play 1-2 games vs top 50, and pretty sure the strength of those conf is about the same as the Valley. N IL is in the MAC, correct?

thank you for changing the perception that bison alums receive a high quality education in fargo
 

Bison fans insist that NDSU not schedule D-II teams, why should Big Ten teams be expected to play FCS teams?

DI FCS games vs DII do not currently count towards playoff eligibility, although there some effort to change this. If 1 game counted, it would be a good financial decision to play Duluth, Makato, SC, etc . . . And the games would happen. Pretty sure FCS leagues wouldn't put rules in place to prevent playing DII's to the overall detriment of college FB. I don't think the FCS would be paranoid and selfish enough to do that to college FB as a whole. Kinda a ME-10 move, and kinda unnecessary.
 

thank you for changing the perception that bison alums receive a high quality education in fargo

I agree lakes. I asked an NDSU student the other day what he was majoring in. He replied, "Pre-Sem". I then asked, "do you mean to tell me that NDSU has a Pre-Seminary Program too.?" He grinned and said, "Nah, Pre-Sem" at NDSU is "Pre-Semination. We are an Agricultural College, ya know."
 

Any chance this move has something to do with getting better TV contracts?
 

Any chance this move has something to do with getting better TV contracts?

Interesting thought. The masses are going to switch it to something other than say Purdue vs NW California Technical College and Tire Shop. FBS schools no matter how bad they are probably draws more people in even if it is North Texas or whoever.
 


Interesting thought. The masses are going to switch it to something other than say Purdue vs NW California Technical College and Tire Shop. FBS schools no matter how bad they are probably draws more people in even if it is North Texas or whoever.

Keep in mind, we're most likely talking about replacing a MAC-level team with a B1G first, and with a proposed ban on FCS opponents, bringing that MAC level back in. Transitive property we're talking about replacing an FCS level team with an additional B1G game, which is why I said it's definitely about TV revenue (first) even if we may end up losing a home game and the revenue that comes with it.
 

Yeah, a whole bunch so does a 9 or 10 game Big Ten Schedule.

from SB Nation:

This is a pretty landmark move by the Big Ten. Currently none of the major college football conferences have any restrictions on playing FCS opponents, and actively welcome at least one annual matchup with a patsy from a smaller conference to ensure one easy opponent on the schedule. Only three teams have exclusively played Division I schools: The USC Trojans, UCLA Bruins, and the Notre Dame Fighting Irish. For everyone else, it's become a lot easier to handle one week during the season when their annual cupcake comes to town.

The Big Ten removing that restriction might be paving the path to a new future for major college football conferences as they try and consolidate their power. More games against major schools would probably mean more money for the Big Ten in its next TV contract. Other conferences might then try to do the same in order to keep up with the Big Ten, and soon the FCS matchup might very well become a thing of the past.
 

Hey, you don't need to get pissy about it, but do you even follow college football. End of year sagarin:

Northern Illinois. 39
UCF. 45
Tulsa. 47
NDSU. 35

Pretty sure I'm not afraid to play those games, pretty sure we all play 1-2 games vs top 50, and pretty sure the strength of those conf is about the same as the Valley. N IL is in the MAC, correct?

Crack is whack. Top-to-bottom, no way.

I really hope "Herd" isn't the guy who was over on the Basketball board when we played the Bison spouting off about how NDSU was #21 in the country....wait for it.....in the Top 25 Mid-Major Poll. :rolleyes:
 





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