If the Gophers were in the East













MonikerSchmoniker45

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If Fleck’s mom had moved to Tallahassee as a child and his dad had become a circus performer would Darius Taylor be a hockey player? Something to consider
Farfetched... have you considered that maybe the reason Darius Taylor isn't playing hockey is because the San Andreas fault has been moving 30-50 mm a year over the last 10 million years?
 



PMWinSTP

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Farfetched... have you considered that maybe the reason Darius Taylor isn't playing hockey is because the San Andreas fault has been moving 30-50 mm a year over the last 10 million years?
Plus you'd have to factor in the earth being flat...
 



gophernut1

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Why would the state of Minnesota move itself between Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan? Is this type of large-scale geographic movement even possible? How would the location of our state impact its coaching hiring and firing? It is Sunday morning and these sorts of deep questions do arise before and after church, but typically I try and keep them in the realm of the possible. What strange multi-versic reality is this guy pondering?
 


Panthadad2

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If a lamb is a ram and a donkey is an ass, why is a ram in the ass a goose?
 

PMWinSTP

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Why would the state of Minnesota move itself between Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan? Is this type of large-scale geographic movement even possible? How would the location of our state impact its coaching hiring and firing? It is Sunday morning and these sorts of deep questions do arise before and after church, but typically I try and keep them in the realm of the possible. What strange multi-versic reality is this guy pondering?
I was thinking farther east...
 

Some guy

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If gophers were in the east fleck would still have great records against non conference opponents. He would get an automatic W vs Indiana and Rutgers every year

So baseline would be 5 wins or 4 if they played a UNC type non conference games.

To have an 8 win season he would have to steal 3-4 wins against
Penn state
Maryland
Michigan state
Three of the west. And if you drew the right 3 it would be a pretty easy path to 9 wins.

It is what Maryland is doing this year. And the nice thing for the Maryland coach is, zero people are complaining he didn’t win his divisions.


8 wins would be harder to do consistently in the east.
6 wins would be easier in the east.
Getting a schedule for 11-12 wins less likely in the east.
Getting a schedule for 9 wins more likely in the east.


What if this years schedule was:
Michigan
Ohio state
Penn state
Michigan state
Rutgers
Maryland
Indiana
Northwestern
Nebraska
(This is Maryland schedule with gophers playing Maryland instead of Illinois)

I would be thinking 8-4 (6-3) is more attainable than it is against our current schedule.
 

MplsGopher

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^^ Obviously it depends on who you play non-conf (as you said), and hence why I am prefacing this as I have not actually looked at the non-confs.

That said, each non-covid year in the East, the best overall record outside ranked teams was:

2014 (2 ranked) - 3rd place Maryland 7-6 / 4th place Rutgers 8-5
2015 (3 ranked) - 4th Penn State 7-6
2016 (3 ranked) - 4th Indiana 6-7
2017 (3 ranked) - 4th Michigan 8-5
2018 (3 ranked) - 4th Mich St 7-6
2019 (3 ranked) - 4th Indiana 8-5
2021 (3 ranked) - 4th Penn St 7-6
2022 (3 ranked) - 4th Maryland 8-5

I would say only the 4th place 8-5 overall records seem to jive with what you're laying down, and they don't always happen.
 

Some guy

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^^ Obviously it depends on who you play non-conf (as you said), and hence why I am prefacing this as I have not actually looked at the non-confs.

That said, each non-covid year in the East, the best overall record outside ranked teams was:

2014 (2 ranked) - 3rd place Maryland 7-6 / 4th place Rutgers 8-5
2015 (3 ranked) - 4th Penn State 7-6
2016 (3 ranked) - 4th Indiana 6-7
2017 (3 ranked) - 4th Michigan 8-5
2018 (3 ranked) - 4th Mich St 7-6
2019 (3 ranked) - 4th Indiana 8-5
2021 (3 ranked) - 4th Penn St 7-6
2022 (3 ranked) - 4th Maryland 8-5

I would say only the 4th place 8-5 overall records seem to jive with what you're laying down, and they don't always happen.
Those records actually make my point for me.
The point was that the 4-7 in the east aren’t typically very good. So even though you have 3 games that makes 11-1 or 12-0 near impossible as a guarantee. It’s pretty easy to get to 6-7 wins and with the right crossovers it’s pretty easy to get to 9
 

MplsGopher

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OK. If it's "pretty easy" to get to 9, then why hasn't that happened a single time outside the ranked teams since 2014?

Like I said, I don't know who they played non-conf. Agree that UNC level non-conf means 8, instead of 9.
 

short ornery norwegian

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well, next year we're going to start finding that out.

starting next year, 2nd place in the (old) West could translate to finishing in 6th or 7th place at best in the new conference. we're looking at a conference with OSU, Mich, PSU, USC, Wash, Oregon at the top. throw UCLA, Iowa and Wisconsin into the mix, and the Gophers could have a decent season - by historical standards - and be looking at 8th or 9th place in the standings.

this is not an attack on Fleck. but it is a reality check. in the current standings, saying that the Gophers finished 2nd in the Division sounds good. in the new standings, saying that the Gophers finished in 8th place in the Conference doesn't sound as good - even if the records are the same or very similar.

in the current AP top 25, 8 of the top 25 teams are current or future B1G teams, including 6 of the top 10.
 

gopherbadgerman

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well, next year we're going to start finding that out.

starting next year, 2nd place in the (old) West could translate to finishing in 6th or 7th place at best in the new conference. we're looking at a conference with OSU, Mich, PSU, USC, Wash, Oregon at the top. throw UCLA, Iowa and Wisconsin into the mix, and the Gophers could have a decent season - by historical standards - and be looking at 8th or 9th place in the standings.

this is not an attack on Fleck. but it is a reality check. in the current standings, saying that the Gophers finished 2nd in the Division sounds good. in the new standings, saying that the Gophers finished in 8th place in the Conference doesn't sound as good - even if the records are the same or very similar.

in the current AP top 25, 8 of the top 25 teams are current or future B1G teams, including 6 of the top 10.
If MN finished in the middle of the pack that’s totally expected given their talent level, even a bit of an overachievement
 


EG#9

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Interesting question. I don't think PJ takes the Minnesota job if we were somehow in the B1G East. So much of the appeal was the ability to win a division without having to beat Michigan/Ohio State. I think Minnesota would be churning through coaches with resumes like Jerry Kill, or the guys that have coached Maryland, Indiana and Rutgers recently...coordinators looking at their first major job, guys with baggage (Schiano), or guys like Kill who were just kind of solid at the mid major level who didn't have much buzz.

If PJ had Michigan/Ohio State/Penn State on the schedule every year, I think he'd either be on TV or back at Western Michigan by now. I think that would be the case for most coaches in the West if you looked at their team of the last 6-7 years and placed them in the East.
 

Some guy

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OK. If it's "pretty easy" to get to 9, then why hasn't that happened a single time outside the ranked teams since 2014?

Like I said, I don't know who they played non-conf. Agree that UNC level non-conf means 8, instead of 9.
Because the 4th place team in the east has been pretty mediocre
Which was my point, there are more easy wins in the east than the west.


In his 4 good seasons (2018, 2019, 2021, 2022)
Flecks record against teams
1-3 in the east = 1-3
4-7 in the east = 7-1
Total against the east = 8-4
In the west = 13-11


And I would argue a 2019 season is harder to attain. And a 2018, 2021, and 2022 season is easier to attain assuming your roster/team quality doesn’t change when you switch divisions.


Why haven’t the east teams 4-7 racked up wins? Because they’re below average teams.
 
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MplsGopher

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OK. I'm finally catching on. Basically you're saying, yeah the top 3 in the East are brutal, but the bottom 4 are usually worse than say the top 5-6 in the West.

That's fair.

Fun to think about, but we'll never know.


Going forward, "relevance" in the Big Ten is going to have to need a new definition I'm afraid. When the conference only takes the top two out of a single lump of 18 for its championship game, it's almost impossible to ever make that.

If, most years, Fleck wins 8+ regular season and a bowl win in a low-mid tier bowl game (9 total), with a better year every 3-4 years ... I think he gets to stay her as long as he wants. I think. Maybe. Will PJ himself be satisfied with that? Will he earn to give it a shot elsewhere at a program that has a chance to do something really special? Things to think about for the future
 




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