If Pitino stays on to coach next year

[Bad Gopher]

Yeah what if Tubby would have had Royce. Always close becomes stale after 7 years.

Or if Burleson hadn't turned the ball over late in that one game against Illinois. The outcome of one play was the linchpin of Dan Monson's entire high-major career. Yeah.

If one injury/ineligibility or one game or one play is the deciding factor between greatness and a conference winning percentage in the .300s, your program is a house of cards and hasn't been built on a strong enough foundation.

 

[builtbadgers]

Ouch. What course would have you played the US Open if you had made it?

Pebble Beach '82. My hometown. My point was I was not good enough and excuses did not make it so. Literally was taught to never make excuses.

 

[builtbadgers]

Or if Burleson hadn't turned the ball over late in that one game against Illinois. The outcome of one play was the linchpin of Dan Monson's entire high-major career. Yeah.

If one injury/ineligibility or one game or one play is the deciding factor between greatness and a conference winning percentage in the .300s, your program is a house of cards and hasn't been built on a strong enough foundation.

Post of the day.

 

[Ope3]

Pebble Beach '82. My hometown. My point was I was not good enough and excuses did not make it so. Literally was taught to never make excuses.

Agree with you on the excuses. Plus, golf you can't blame anyone for not passing you the ball.

Bummer though, maybe you could have taken down Tom Watson. I was pulling for Bobby Clampett to win that one.

 

[JimmyJamesMD]

Agree with you on the excuses. Plus, golf you can't blame anyone for not passing you the ball.

Bummer though, maybe you could have taken down Tom Watson. I was pulling for Bobby Clampett to win that one.

Speaking of golf, whatever happened to helluva golfer?

 

[salzie]

If Pitino does get another year don’t you have to give him the following year after that too? Without a contract extension he basically is a lame duck coach. He isn’t that great of recruiter to begin with and pretty much everyone knowing he is coaching for his job recruiting would be near impossible.

That's the challenge, you either have to commit and give him an undeserved extension, or you have to fire him

 

[howeda7]

If Coyle doesn't believe that Pitino has the recruits and prospects in place to make things better next year- he will move on. The only exception I can think of with that is if he thinks there is a sure thing that he could get done a year from now that he cannot sell the U on today. Let's say Musselman with the 5 million buyout, for example.

If Oturu is gone, what is the rational for Coyle thinking we'll be better next year? Pitino's Spring recruiting record isn't good.

 

[Gopherfan84]

If Oturu is gone, what is the rational for Coyle thinking we'll be better next year? Pitino's Spring recruiting record isn't good.

I'd argue he actually does pretty well with this. Spring recruiting in general is a thinned out pool, but getting the likes of Ihnen, Marcus Carr, Willis, and Jordan Murphy are pretty solid for spring recruits.

 

[howeda7]

I'd argue he actually does pretty well with this. Spring recruiting in general is a thinned out pool, but getting the likes of Ihnen, Marcus Carr, Willis, and Jordan Murphy are pretty solid for spring recruits.

I guess I forgot Carr and Willis were Spring recruits. Still I wouldn't call last year's haul of Greenlee, Freeman, Ihnen and no one great. 1/4 won't win many games. And even if he gets another Ihen, how much will he help next year?

 

[USAF]

Agree with you on the excuses. Plus, golf you can't blame anyone for not passing you the ball.

Bummer though, maybe you could have taken down Tom Watson. I was pulling for Bobby Clampett to win that one.

I was pulling for Jed Clampett.

 

[Gopherfan84]

I guess I forgot Carr and Willis were Spring recruits. Still I wouldn't call last year's haul of Greenlee, Freeman, Ihnen and no one great. 1/4 won't win many games. And even if he gets another Ihen, how much will he help next year?

Fair point, one would argue that it had to due with his misses in the fall and they did have a new staff as well. Tough call. If Greenlee or Freeman transfer was it a killer to take a flier and see if no one else was coming? If they stay all 4 years and don't produce, still not a killer if you don't have too many. Can't hit on all recruits, but obviously we have missed on too many here recently.

 

[Block M]

Gophers will be a Sweet 16-caliber team next year if Curry comes back healthy and no unexpected hurtful departures. Oturu hard to replace for sure, but I like whats coming back.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Not having Carr sucked. But unless they're a super star, one player doesn't take you from making the NCAA's by the skin of your teeth to a Final Four team. Carr is not a super star.

I certainly won't say Final Four team but PG was by far last year's weakest position. Having above average PG play would have been a huge improvement over what we saw. It's impossible to know for sure of course but I think it would have improved them a lot. Plus it would have added much needed depth in the backcourt.

 

[Block M]

If Oturu is gone, what is the rational for Coyle thinking we'll be better next year? Pitino's Spring recruiting record isn't good.

I think the Gophers will be better next year even without Oturu (though they would be scary good if he returns). This improvement is predicated on: 1) everyone who is supposed to return does return; 2) Mashburn can come in and immediately help at PG and add reliable 3-pt shooting. 3) Curry comes back as a productive player and team leader to partially offset the loss of Oturu. 4) Gabe shoots 35% and not 25% from 3-pt line in conference play next year; 5) Ihnen and Williams make the expected jump in productivity. Also need Sam F to add some defense and rebounding.

 

[builtbadgers]

Agree with you on the excuses. Plus, golf you can't blame anyone for not passing you the ball.

Bummer though, maybe you could have taken down Tom Watson. I was pulling for Bobby Clampett to win that one.

Bobby was and is a local legend. I did attend and what Watson and Nicklaus did was pure magic.

 

[builtbadgers]

I think the Gophers will be better next year even without Oturu (though they would be scary good if he returns). This improvement is predicated on: 1) everyone who is supposed to return does return; 2) Mashburn can come in and immediately help at PG and add reliable 3-pt shooting. 3) Curry comes back as a productive player and team leader to partially offset the loss of Oturu. 4) Gabe shoots 35% and not 25% from 3-pt line in conference play next year; 5) Ihnen and Williams make the expected jump in productivity. Also need Sam F to add some defense and rebounding.

Remember to factor what other teams are adding. Pretty significant.

 

[howeda7]

I think the Gophers will be better next year even without Oturu (though they would be scary good if he returns). This improvement is predicated on: 1) everyone who is supposed to return does return; 2) Mashburn can come in and immediately help at PG and add reliable 3-pt shooting. 3) Curry comes back as a productive player and team leader to partially offset the loss of Oturu. 4) Gabe shoots 35% and not 25% from 3-pt line in conference play next year; 5) Ihnen and Williams make the expected jump in productivity. Also need Sam F to add some defense and rebounding.

That's a lot of assumptions. They won't all come true. I think the ceiling without Oturu is that they won't be any worse without him, but they won't be any better. Losing him is a massive hole. It will take everyone else stepping up just to get them back to even. Maybe with better execution they can tun 14-16 into 17-13. That's best case. More likely, another losing season and we're having these same discussions a year from how.

 

[Bad Gopher]

That's a lot of assumptions. They won't all come true. I think the ceiling without Oturu is that they won't be any worse without him, but they won't be any better. Losing him is a massive hole. It will take everyone else stepping up just to get them back to even. Maybe with better execution they can tun 14-16 into 17-13. That's best case. More likely, another losing season and we're having these same discussions a year from how.

The big question is who's going to play center? Even if Curry is serviceable he's really a 4 who can play the 5 if needed. We've dodged a bullet this year with Oturu rarely if ever in foul trouble. This is where the faulty roster construction looms as a HUGE issue.

 

[USAF]

I think the Gophers will be better next year even without Oturu (though they would be scary good if he returns). This improvement is predicated on: 1) everyone who is supposed to return does return; 2) Mashburn can come in and immediately help at PG and add reliable 3-pt shooting. 3) Curry comes back as a productive player and team leader to partially offset the loss of Oturu. 4) Gabe shoots 35% and not 25% from 3-pt line in conference play next year; 5) Ihnen and Williams make the expected jump in productivity. Also need Sam F to add some defense and rebounding.

You forgot 6) Everyone watches wearing 2" thick maroon colored glasses.

 

[cjbfbp]

I'd argue he actually does pretty well with this. Spring recruiting in general is a thinned out pool, but getting the likes of Ihnen, Marcus Carr, Willis, and Jordan Murphy are pretty solid for spring recruits.

Don't agree about Willis 100% - at least for a sit-out transfer (would have been good enough for a grad transfer). However, I will add Akeem Springs to the list of spring positives and also Matz Stockman (although using that scholarship for a one-year sit-out transfer was a very questionable decision at the time and ended up hurting the team). Alihan was good enough for a grad transfer; he just wasn't good enough to be a starter. In retrospect, Pitino should have started Ihnen as soon as possible and just suffered through the growing pains.

However, you can't tout Pitino's spring successes without including his failures: Greenlee and Freeman (at least so far), Devonte Fitzgerald, Brock Stull, and Gaston Diedhiou.

 

[cjbfbp]

You forgot 6) Everyone watches wearing 2" thick maroon colored glasses.

That was my mistake! I should have picked up a pair of those five years ago.

 

[cjbfbp]

The big question is who's going to play center? Even if Curry is serviceable he's really a 4 who can play the 5 if needed. We've dodged a bullet this year with Oturu rarely if ever in foul trouble. This is where the faulty roster construction looms as a HUGE issue.

Well, hopefully, the next coach can pick up a reasonable quality grad transfer or some other transfer whom the NCAA decides can play immediately because his uncle lives here or because the U has some specialized program that isn't available at his current school. For example, the U has a Finnish minor. Not every place can tout that!

 

[bga1]

Don't agree about Willis 100% - at least for a sit-out transfer (would have been good enough for a grad transfer). However, I will add Akeem Springs to the list of spring positives and also Matz Stockman (although using that scholarship for a one-year sit-out transfer was a very questionable decision at the time and ended up hurting the team). Alihan was good enough for a grad transfer; he just wasn't good enough to be a starter. In retrospect, Pitino should have started Ihnen as soon as possible and just suffered through the growing pains.

However, you can't tout Pitino's spring successes without including his failures: Greenlee and Freeman (at least so far), Devonte Fitzgerald, Brock Stull, and Gaston Diedhiou.

I just don't get how anyone can put Freeman in the failure category. Have some patience. The kid has a chance to be a solid 4 year Gopher in the mode of a John Thomas type physical center. Probably was an intended RS if Curry had been healthy.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Well, hopefully, the next coach can pick up a reasonable quality grad transfer or some other transfer whom the NCAA decides can play immediately because his uncle lives here or because the U has some specialized program that isn't available at his current school. For example, the U has a Finnish minor. Not every place can tout that!

How successful do you think the transfer and spring market is? Of course there are misses. That area is not a weak spot in Richards recruiting.

 

[cjbfbp]

I just don't get how anyone can put Freeman in the failure category.

I said "so far." I agree that one can't close the book on him. However, this team needed more capable bodies this year, so, to the extent that Greenlee and Freeman failed to provide that, they were recruiting failures for this season. If Pitino had managed to recruit a couple of reasonably capable grad transfers (about the same level as Alihan) instead of those two freshman, we might be 17-12 now and looking at a very possible NCAA tournament berth.

You focus on the "potential" world too much. You should shift focus a bit more to the actual world.

 

[MplsGopher]

Honest question: in the P6, are all true freshmen (18 year olds, let's not forget) expected to come in and be able to contribute non-trivially (in conf games) right away?

 

[cjbfbp]

Honest question: in the P6, are all true freshmen (18 year olds, let's not forget) expected to come in and be able to contribute non-trivially (in conf games) right away?

Not all, but a healthy number of them. According to Sports Reference, there are 24 Big Ten freshmen who have played in 20 games or more AND have averaged 10 minutes or more per game. My guess is that's about half or more of the scholarship freshmen in the league so I would say that there is a reasonable expectation of freshmen being able to contribute regularly.

Minnesota has only one of those (Tre' Williams). The other teams having only one are Illinois, Maryland, Michigan, Penn State, Purdue, and Wisconsin. Illinois and Michigan's freshmen are major contributors. Iowa has two but might have three if their #1 freshman recruit wasn't shut down early in the season for health reasons. The same thing might be applied to a small number of freshmen on other teams, I don't know.

 

[cjbfbp]

How successful do you think the transfer and spring market is? Of course there are misses. That area is not a weak spot in Richards recruiting.

I conceded his successes but I don't believe in claims based on partially selected evidence. Pitino apologists frequently resort to asymmetrical reasoning. Like this ----

"He had the best single season conference record this century! He made two NCAA tournaments and won an NIT."

Answer: Yes, but he also had arguably the worst season in program history and had three other seasons (including this one) featuring no postseason and Wednesday appearances in the Big Ten tournament.

 

[builtbadgers]

I conceded his successes but I don't believe in claims based on partially selected evidence. Pitino apologists frequently resort to asymmetrical reasoning. Like this ----

"He had the best single season conference record this century! He made two NCAA tournaments and won an NIT."

Answer: Yes, but he also had arguably the worst season in program history and had three other seasons (including this one) featuring no postseason and Wednesday appearances in the Big Ten tournament.

Plus to me the NIT MEANS NOT IN TOURNEY. If you ask anyone without a local bias about 7 years with that record, one over .500 conference record they call it a failure

 

[Gopherfan84]

I conceded his successes but I don't believe in claims based on partially selected evidence. Pitino apologists frequently resort to asymmetrical reasoning. Like this ----

"He had the best single season conference record this century! He made two NCAA tournaments and won an NIT."

Answer: Yes, but he also had arguably the worst season in program history and had three other seasons (including this one) featuring no postseason and Wednesday appearances in the Big Ten tournament.

Valid points for sure