If Iowa goes to the NC, where will you check in for therapy?

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MNCH said:
"As for Ferentz being part of a panel that advised the victim not to go the formal route for rape, I don't think that is an accurate depiction. Ferentz has stated he wanted nothing to do with being a part of the Universities' handling of the matter. I think it was stated that the victim wanted to keep it quieter, which probably isn't out of the norm for a victim of a rape crime like this, and that she wanted Ferentz involved. Isn't Ferentz supposed to advocate for his players? Asking him to be involved in the handling of an allegation (one that I believe, but still an allegation not a conviction) puts Ferentz in an unfair position with a conflict of interest. Your assertion that he didn't immediately suspend the players is false. He didn't publicly announce the suspensions until the matter became public. They were immediately suspended, and later kicked off the team for good. Believe it or not, even accused rapist probably have some rights. What is Ferentz to do, personally change the locks on their dorm rooms leaving them homeless without any trial, hearing or investigation? Kirk Ferentz probably doesn't handle dorm assignments, and he definitely didn't transfer the players to a different dorm room."


This is completely unture. Read the letters sent to the Board of Regents and the University President. Ferentz encouraged the girl NOT to go to the authorities and that they would handle everything "in-house." So according to Ferentz, either rape is not a criminal offense at the University of Iowa or his word reigns above the law on campus.
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I did read the letters at the time. Now I can't find them. If you know where they can be found, please link to them.

First, the only letters I am aware of were letters from the victim's family. They represent one parties perspectives on the events, and they would most likely be significantly impacted (understandably so) by emotions. They aren't a set of facts. Second, I don't recall accusations that Ferentz encouraged anything. I thought (perhaps wrongly) that they were more general allegations that the university, athletic department, and everyone involved had failed their daughter.

Rather than relying on the view of one party of how the university and athletic department covered up the incident, I think it would make more sense to look at the report by the lawfirm. They interviewed the victim and her family extensively, as well as all university and athletic department parties involved. They found zero evidence of a cover-up. Zero. They did find that some high ranking athletic department administrators didn't do their jobs, and they were fired.

When the accusations were made and as the letters and other documents were made public, Ferentz and others had to say next to nothing while their reputations were smeared because of privacy issues and police investigations. In hindsight, the evidence doesn't support the smearing.
 

MNCH said:
Ferentz also told players to clean up the dorm room where the rape occurred. Throw out evidence like used condoms, bloody mattress, etc. THAT is a crime in most jurisdictions, but I guess not Johnson County, Iowa.
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That is not true. There is no evidence that Ferentz told his players to move back into a dorm room to destroy evidence. Do you actually believe that Ferentz told players to throw out used condoms or a bloody mattress?
 

I'd feel even better about their run if they hadn't stormed the field and torn the goal post down HERE!
 


Yeah I'd rather they not, because if they do it's just gonna be another Big 10 as* raping in the N.C....like if they played bama or Florida...wow that would not be pretty.
 


MplsHawk said:
I did read the letters at the time. Now I can't find them. If you know where they can be found, please link to them.

First, the only letters I am aware of were letters from the victim's family. They represent one parties perspectives on the events, and they would most likely be significantly impacted (understandably so) by emotions. They aren't a set of facts. Second, I don't recall accusations that Ferentz encouraged anything. I thought (perhaps wrongly) that they were more general allegations that the university, athletic department, and everyone involved had failed their daughter.

Rather than relying on the view of one party of how the university and athletic department covered up the incident, I think it would make more sense to look at the report by the lawfirm. They interviewed the victim and her family extensively, as well as all university and athletic department parties involved. They found zero evidence of a cover-up. Zero. They did find that some high ranking athletic department administrators didn't do their jobs, and they were fired.

When the accusations were made and as the letters and other documents were made public, Ferentz and others had to say next to nothing while their reputations were smeared because of privacy issues and police investigations. In hindsight, the evidence doesn't support the smearing.
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Anything you want to know about that situation should be in this link including the Stolar Partnership Report and the family's letters.:

http://www.nicholasjohnson.org/BlogStuf/UI-Sexual-Assault-2007-08.html
 


AV Gopher said:
[B]If Gary Tinsley did indeed do what the paper stated, I do believe that he should be suspended for some games. I do think that OWI, assault, sexual assault, credit card fraud, drug charges are all things that should all be dealt with from being kicked off the team to suspensions (OWI) and the PAULA as internal disiplines, although a large pattern of PAULAs especially the coaches kid should cause a coach to set an example to the team that this crap needs to stop and that we wont tolerate it. Altough missing spring practice time doesnt help but a larger penalty to a repeat offender should have been suspension of a game or two. I think that you would have stopped all the problems if you have to miss games, Not games as in Arkansas State, but a real game. Opps I guess if that would of happened maybe you would have lost.[/B]

By the way, the article says "he is at least the 26th Hawkeye football player known to have been charged or ticketed by police since April 2007." Note the subtle distinction between "arrested" and "ticketed". Under age drinking, the kind that the Gopher hockey team was shown on Fox 9 (hack reporting if you ask me) to engage in, gets you a PAULA citation, not an arrest. If that is the sign of an out of control program, so be it, but its not like the 26 arrests were all rape and robbery. More serious offenses have been met with permanent dismissal from the team.

Well I do agree that all are not big offenses as rapes, assaults, ect., but having numerous PAULAs with other citations involved is the problem. As for the Gopher hockey team, they were in the wrong for under age drinking but there were no citations as the police were not involved. You don't go hire a director of player developement if there isn't a big problem. The Gopher hockey team was disciplined as they should have been.

As for his son, his first offense was a PAULA citation. He wasn't drunk, but rather had possession of a can of beer when he was under the age of 21. Did you ever commit that crime? For that, he was suspended for the season. Not just redshirted, suspended so he couldn't participate in team workouts, activities, etc. That is pretty harsh, but his timing stunk as his dad was fed up with these problems. His second offense was public intox--not very bright James Ferentz, not very bright. He was suspended from spring practices (which hurts his development a lot having missed fall practices), and a crapload of other discipline. Should we hang him also?

Actually I have never committed a crime, speeding yes but I didnt drink until I was 19 which was the legal drinking age. Also maybe James Ferentz should be held to a higher level of behavior. Once you take care of the problem and suspend from games, obviously the punishment was not a deterant for him to do it again within 6 months.

As for Ferentz being part of a panel that advised the victim not to go the formal route for rape, I don't think that is an accurate depiction. Ferentz has stated he wanted nothing to do with being a part of the Universities' handling of the matter. I think it was stated that the victim wanted to keep it quieter, which probably isn't out of the norm for a victim of a rape crime like this, and that she wanted Ferentz involved. Isn't Ferentz supposed to advocate for his players? Asking him to be involved in the handling of an allegation (one that I believe, but still an allegation not a conviction) puts Ferentz in an unfair position with a conflict of interest. Your assertion that he didn't immediately suspend the players is false. He didn't publicly announce the suspensions until the matter became public. They were immediately suspended, and later kicked off the team for good. Believe it or not, even accused rapist probably have some rights. What is Ferentz to do, personally change the locks on their dorm rooms leaving them homeless without any trial, hearing or investigation? Kirk Ferentz probably doesn't handle dorm assignments, and he definitely didn't transfer the players to a different dorm room.

The independent investigation reportedly had zippo to say negatively about Ferentz. It was a university problem.


Well I guess we have a different opinion on whats right and wrong. If I were the coach, I would have suspended the players immediately and made sure that the process didnt take 5 weeks, kept the victims parents informed to what I was doing to correct the situation. Keep a close eye on the players, and make sure that any decisions to affect the players had to be approved by me. I would have known that they were switching dorm room. I think that Iowa had a big problem over that 2 year time and it all was because of the leadership of KF. All schools have problems as we know the Gophers have had theirs also. We had 3 players kicked off the team for violating the student code of conduct in the Dominick Jones case, no criminal charges and they were kicked off the team.
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Frankly, I think we agree more than we disagree. I have stated several times on this board that there appeared to be a drinking problem among the Iowa football and basketball programs. Ferentz has been dealing with it, often very harshly. The number of these offenses has dropped quite a bit. I think that the 26 or whatever number of charged or ticketed was somewhat of a bad luck (in getting caught I guess) streak. I think that the video by Fox 9 shows that its a common occurence among college students and student athletes. Not sure why "there were no citations as the police were not involved" matters with the Gopher hockey players. If its a problem, why is it only a problem if cited by the police? Where the players suspended from games? I don't recall hearing that they were. Frankly, I think it just highlights that police in Minneapolis don't consider such offenses as the same priority that Iowa City police seem to.

As for Ferentz kid, he was one of the few repeat offenders that I am aware of, and he DID have game suspensions. Of course, he isn’t yet a starter, so perhaps that wasn’t a big deal. I don’t know what Kirk Ferentz could have done, suspended James for a couple of games in the 2010 or 20011 season for something that happened in the spring of 2009? Personally, I think center is a weak spot for this team, and if James hadn’t missed part of last fall and this spring, plus been suspended, he might very well be playing now, but he is not.

As for your “Opps I guess if that would of happened maybe you would have lost” comment, it is dead wrong. Ferentz has no qualms suspending starters who screw up. How about Benny Sapp, a two year starter at cornerback before being kicked off the team. How about Mo Brown, a big time receiver who was suspended for a season for being a repeat alcohol offender. How about a senior starter at long snapper who was booted from the team for an alcohol related offense prior to the 2007 season. How about the starting cornerback Prater who was suspended for two games, including the game against rival Iowa State whom we often struggle with? There have been many others.

I know that you want to paint Ferentz and probably me as being somehow morally inferior to you and the Minnesota athletic department, but I doubt we have such a big difference of opinion of what is right and what is wrong. Ferentz is a father of daughters, as am I. He had policies and procedures he had to follow, and he did. The players WERE suspended immediately, not 5 weeks later. They WERE kicked off the team. If they committed the crime, and I suspect that they did, I hope they are convicted. The man is a football coach, not a rape victim's advocate, not a Dean of Student Affairs, not a Resident Assistant of a dormitory, not a liaison for other student's parents, etc. Those other jobs are manned by other people, and rightfully so as a football coach has a conflict of interest when it comes to his football team. He has made promises to the families of those who play for him that he will try to guide their sons, advocate for them when necessary, etc. Sometimes you can't do both effectively. I don't want Ferentz to be cold hearted about the ordeal, but I think you might be confusing Kirk Ferentz with the larger entity of the University of Iowa. He can't personally take responsibility for every necessary task performed at the university. The ball was dropped, but apparently not by Kirk Ferentz per an independent investigation. Those who did drop the ball have been fired.

I imagine I am wasting my proverbial breath trying to convince anyone on this board that Ferentz isn't Jack the Ripper, so I will stop trying.
 




The whole "Kirk Ferentz is running a renegade program" bit gets old. Iowa by and large does things the right way. Some kids got into trouble and they dealt with it. I don't think that we need to look too far from home to see that other programs have kids that get into to trouble as well.
 

MplsHawk said:
Frankly, I think we agree more than we disagree. I have stated several times on this board that there appeared to be a drinking problem among the Iowa football and basketball programs. Ferentz has been dealing with it, often very harshly. The number of these offenses has dropped quite a bit. I think that the 26 or whatever number of charged or ticketed was somewhat of a bad luck (in getting caught I guess) streak. I think that the video by Fox 9 shows that its a common occurence among college students and student athletes. Not sure why "there were no citations as the police were not involved" matters with the Gopher hockey players. If its a problem, why is it only a problem if cited by the police? Where the players suspended from games? I don't recall hearing that they were. Frankly, I think it just highlights that police in Minneapolis don't consider such offenses as the same priority that Iowa City police seem to.

As for Ferentz kid, he was one of the few repeat offenders that I am aware of, and he DID have game suspensions. Of course, he isn’t yet a starter, so perhaps that wasn’t a big deal. I don’t know what Kirk Ferentz could have done, suspended James for a couple of games in the 2010 or 20011 season for something that happened in the spring of 2009? Personally, I think center is a weak spot for this team, and if James hadn’t missed part of last fall and this spring, plus been suspended, he might very well be playing now, but he is not.

As for your “Opps I guess if that would of happened maybe you would have lost” comment, it is dead wrong. Ferentz has no qualms suspending starters who screw up. How about Benny Sapp, a two year starter at cornerback before being kicked off the team. How about Mo Brown, a big time receiver who was suspended for a season for being a repeat alcohol offender. How about a senior starter at long snapper who was booted from the team for an alcohol related offense prior to the 2007 season. How about the starting cornerback Prater who was suspended for two games, including the game against rival Iowa State whom we often struggle with? There have been many others.

I know that you want to paint Ferentz and probably me as being somehow morally inferior to you and the Minnesota athletic department, but I doubt we have such a big difference of opinion of what is right and what is wrong. Ferentz is a father of daughters, as am I. He had policies and procedures he had to follow, and he did. The players WERE suspended immediately, not 5 weeks later. They WERE kicked off the team. If they committed the crime, and I suspect that they did, I hope they are convicted. The man is a football coach, not a rape victim's advocate, not a Dean of Student Affairs, not a Resident Assistant of a dormitory, not a liaison for other student's parents, etc. Those other jobs are manned by other people, and rightfully so as a football coach has a conflict of interest when it comes to his football team. He has made promises to the families of those who play for him that he will try to guide their sons, advocate for them when necessary, etc. Sometimes you can't do both effectively. I don't want Ferentz to be cold hearted about the ordeal, but I think you might be confusing Kirk Ferentz with the larger entity of the University of Iowa. He can't personally take responsibility for every necessary task performed at the university. The ball was dropped, but apparently not by Kirk Ferentz per an independent investigation. Those who did drop the ball have been fired.

I imagine I am wasting my proverbial breath trying to convince anyone on this board that Ferentz isn't Jack the Ripper, so I will stop trying.
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I guess we will have to agree to disagree. My point is the KF is the leader of the football team. He sets the rules, leads by example and is totally in charge of his student athletes. There was a big problem in IC over a 24 + month stretch. He could have stopped the problems by addressing the team that he will not tolerate the actions of the team and that they represent their university. Obviously for the serious crimes people were kicked out of school. The small tickets/citations were what he could of stopped. Maybe the players that were drunk that threatened to beat up the police officer could have been made example of a stricter no tolerance policy by Iowa. It had to be a huge distraction and embarassment to the football team and university. This is why I do not respect KF. He is a hell of a coach but I do not think he is a respectable person. How would you feel if your daughters were the ones victimized by his football players and KF did nothing about the conduct of all his players including all of the minor infractions. I know I would be pissed as hell at the university and KF. There was a pattern of bad behavior after the Rape. KF could of held a team meeting and set tuff code of conduct rules that would have stopped most of the problems. Iowa almost won the Fulmer Cup. That is not a distinction that I would want to have with the Gophers. It just seems that the Iowa fans that I have met don't think this is a problem at all and that's where we have a disagreement. Football wins are more important than the discipline of the team.
 

99 % of there fan base is like ours

I don't get that worked up if Iowa is having success, because a lot of there fans our the same as ours with the exception of those that like to have sex in public restrooms at sporting events. At the same time, the only time I care about what Iowa is doing is when we play them for Floyd the Pig and when the recruiting battles are head to head for the same players. If they get a shot at a NC good for them, I will not really be cheering them on, because that will have meant they beat us, but I will not be hating on them either. Many have already locked up a victory for the Hawks in IC against the Gophs. Now granted the Gophers have not played that well in IC in recent history but we have a few things going for us. I think the Gophers were embarrassed and the program was embarrassed by last years 55- donughnut game and want a little redemption or better accounting of themselves.
If the Hawks were undefeated at that point to a man, I think the Gophers would be up as excited as anybody to put that L in the column for them. Who wouldn't want to knock off a nationally ranked team and a team, that would be in the running for the national championship. If they still have no losses I think the Gophers have a lot to play for in that game, Pig, a win and putting the first L on the Hawks. That is a lot to play for, a real lot to play for. Heck that would be exciting just thinking about beating them and crapping on there national title hopes. Well a guy can dream anyways.
 

WE DO NOT WANT THE HAWKEYES IN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

that has big 10 embarrassment written all over it

our conference does not need that again
 




My $0.02 on drinking in IC

After living in IC for 3 years I definately did my fair share of drinking. With the Ped Mall being damn near directly across the street from the U I don't blame college students for drinking. That being said I don't think that the police are tougher in IC than anywhere else. On the contrary I think they are more leniant(sp?). Reasons for this being I and many of my friends there have left the bars plenty of nights completely wasted for lack of a better term, passed plenty of officers without incident. It's all in how you represent yourself. I think that most of the players there have a false sense of entitlement and think they can get away with more than they can. Point in case. Drew Tate. Saw him at Fieldhouse I believe, went up to the bar which btw is always busy and never seems to be staffed enough. Anyway he apparently thought he was waiting to long and proceeded to grab a waitress by the arm and scream(no really, scream) "I need a *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#ing beer!" Which the waitress replied," I'll be with you in a moment , sir. We're very busy." He then proceeded to say,"Don't you know who I am?" She had no clue so he ranted and raved and left the bar. Yea the ploice are going to look more closely at players but I think it is with good reason that they do. It is very hard to not drink there as there isn't much else to do and you can be in the bars at age 19. As players I think that they should have more discipline which Ferentz seems to have addressed since the start of the season. I like Ferntz as coach but everybody has their slip ups.:drink:
 

koppco1 said:
I would actually like to see them play Texas, USC, Florida, or Alabama. Normally I would cheer for the Big 10 team but I couldn't do it in this case. I know its bad for the conference rep but I don't care. I would thouroughly enjoy the ass kicking one of those teams would inflict on them.
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Just like the ass kicking Alabama gave Utah last season? Wasn't Texas suppose to destroy OSU last season as well in the Fiesta Bowl? Texas does not blow out Big 10 teams in bowl games. They have won 3 very close games this decade with 1, 2, and 3 point victories over Big 10 teams. Florida isn't nearly as good as they were last year as evident by several close games they have played against below average teams this year. It aint that top heavy this year. Texas, Alabama, and Florida and all very very beatable. USC has one of their weakest teams in years as well too.
 

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